June 2012 Camaro Sales and Production Figures (and vs. Mustang & Challenger)

[shrinkdoc]

Originally Posted by LimaCharlie

Interesting to see the Challenger has been on a very slow, progressive sales increase since 2009. In comparison, the Mustang/Camaro have been on a seasonal roller coaster. Makes you wonder if Dodge has the best sales strategy...

Slow and steady growth is the key to success.

[shrinkdoc]

I give Ford there props. They won fair and square with no excuses.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by shrinkdoc

The Ford 5.0 is a good Motor and is starting to shine. The Chevy 6.2 is good also but rumors are flying that Chevy is looking to downsize the base motor with a reworked 5.3 and tagging it a 327. The 5.3 is lighter can be made easily into a powerhouse, easily supercharge and turbo charged and is a proven maintenance free performer. The 5.3 was used in a variety of car from the 90s up to 2005 but was nowhere near setup to its capabilities. The SS Monte Carlo used this until the car was discontinued. I suspect the Gen 6 camaro which is to be smaller and lighter will use this as the base V8. These 5.3 motors are already being sold as crate motors for racing

The sales have nothing to do with the 5.0. When the new engines launched, the Ford-fans promised us that Mustang sales go through the roof. It never really happened.

The only reason for the increase in Mustang sales in recent months is due to cash on the hood.

Besides... I would take an LS3 over the 5.0 any day.

[shrinkdoc]

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

The sales have nothing to do with the 5.0. When the new engines launched, the Ford-fans promised us that Mustang sales go through the roof. It never really happened.

The only reason for the increase in Mustang sales in recent months is due to cash on the hood.

Besides... I would take an LS3 over the 5.0 any day.

A fan of anything will always be overly optimistic about their product. samething goes for Piston fans.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by shrinkdoc

A fan of anything will always be overly optimistic about their product. samething goes for Piston fans.

Oh... trust me, I'm not overly-optimistic about the Pistons. They are terrible now. They had a great run from 2000-2008 though.

It is possible to be a fan of something and still be in touch with reality.

[doc7000]

This is the same trend we have seen repeated over the past 3 years now, new model year comes out and Ford puts lots of cash on the hood. This causes a large spike in sales then they drop off in the coming months as the deals mostly go away.

Ford has a lot to blame for this, people probably wait until they can get a Mustang with lots of cash on the hood. Look at it this way, if you wait you have the choice of getting the improved product or the old product with lots of cash on the hood.

However Ford is responding to the market condition created by having two new competitors in the market (Challenger and Camaro). Though Ford has done work to improve the Mustang a good deal, still will be interesting though because the Mustang has out sold the Camaro for two months in a row (something that has not happened for a while). The Mustang is now withing 2,000 units of the Camaro year to date, lets see if they can over take and hold for the year.

On the flip side, we all know of the large incentives on the hood of the Mustang (Ford fans are going to say that all of the tooling is paid for so still profitable). We all also know that Ford has increased fleet sales for its Mustang to a pretty high level (to criticism from some in the press).

Truth be told if selling the Mustang at $7,000 off MSRP i still profitable then why not just make that the regular price and sell twice what the Camaro sells. With the dramatic changes that Ford has been making to the Mustang every single production year shows the pressure they are under from competitors now.

[b4z]

Originally Posted by shrinkdoc

The Ford 5.0 is a good Motor and is starting to shine. The Chevy 6.2 is good also but rumors are flying that Chevy is looking to downsize the base motor with a reworked 5.3 and tagging it a 327. The 5.3 is lighter can be made easily into a powerhouse, easily supercharge and turbo charged and is a proven maintenance free performer. The 5.3 was used in a variety of car from the 90s up to 2005 but was nowhere near setup to its capabilities. The SS Monte Carlo used this until the car was discontinued. I suspect the Gen 6 camaro which is to be smaller and lighter will use this as the base V8. These 5.3 motors are already being sold as crate motors for racing

Nope. Everything from aluminum 5.3l-7.0L LS motors weigh essentially the same.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by shrinkdoc

The Ford 5.0 is a good Motor and is starting to shine. The Chevy 6.2 is good also but rumors are flying that Chevy is looking to downsize the base motor with a reworked 5.3 and tagging it a 327. The 5.3 is lighter can be made easily into a powerhouse, easily supercharge and turbo charged and is a proven maintenance free performer. The 5.3 was used in a variety of car from the 90s up to 2005 but was nowhere near setup to its capabilities. The SS Monte Carlo used this until the car was discontinued. I suspect the Gen 6 camaro which is to be smaller and lighter will use this as the base V8. These 5.3 motors are already being sold as crate motors for racing

The 5.3L LS4 in the Monte Carlo SS is the current Gen IV engine (and grenaded transmissions on a regular basis in those cars). The new engine is a Gen V V8, barely has anything to do with the LS4.

[b4z]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

You may also want to look at the percentage of their units put in fleet (primarily daily rental) - I recall a number this past year at roughly 35!

Yep. If I had a dollar for every Grabber Blue v6 Mustang I have seen at the Myrtle Beach or Charleston, SC airports Id be a rich man.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by shrinkdoc

Yep..just cars...but at the top of the coolness meter compared to most other cars.

Depends entirely on the person doing the viewing. I agree the Mustang styling is getting long in the tooth, seeing that it is in its 8th year model with the same basic silhouette while the Camaro is "fresher" but, personally, neither looks fundamentally better than the other, just different.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by b4z

Yep. If I had a dollar for every Grabber Blue v6 Mustang I have seen at the Myrtle Beach or Charleston, SC airports Id be a rich man.

I just returned from a business trip to Orlando last week and I saw as many or more Camaro's as Mustangs in the rental fleets.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

It has everything to do with incentives. There are a lot of great deals out there right now for the GT's... it's a good time to buy one.

2012 Mustang GT $3,000
2013 Mustang $1,000

2012 Camaro $0

Also I would add the lack of advertisement for the camaro. seriously when was the last time anyone seen a commercial for it?

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Frank in MD

I don't doubt that info at all, having said that what I posted was correct. I'm certainly no Ford fan, all the features in the world don't make it as attractive or more fun to drive than the Camaro. The public chooses the Camaro, which is why Ford had to fleet dump.

Now, if the next gen 'stang has an IRS as rumored, produces similar power while weighing 500 lbs less and priced in the same range and still has more content.... well, as I stated Chevy is going to have a tough sell to the general public who aren't F-body enthusiasts.... and that's all I'm saying.

This made me lol, no way in hell the next mustang gt would wiegh 3100 lbs..lighter than a Z06 vette... and still be price competitive lol....

[truth411]

Originally Posted by shrinkdoc

The Ford 5.0 is a good Motor and is starting to shine. The Chevy 6.2 is good also but rumors are flying that Chevy is looking to downsize the base motor with a reworked 5.3 and tagging it a 327. The 5.3 is lighter can be made easily into a powerhouse, easily supercharge and turbo charged and is a proven maintenance free performer. The 5.3 was used in a variety of car from the 90s up to 2005 but was nowhere near setup to its capabilities. The SS Monte Carlo used this until the car was discontinued. I suspect the Gen 6 camaro which is to be smaller and lighter will use this as the base V8. These 5.3 motors are already being sold as crate motors for racing

The LS3 is a superior engine to fords 5.0, its cheaper, abit lighter, produces abit more HP, makes more torque and has a stronger powerband (the most important) . If you take a mustang an put an LS3 in it, it would be even faster... But all this dont matter since GM GEN V V8 are comeing and an alpha Camaro will be significantly lighter exciting times..

[ParisTNDude]

I think the sales improvement in the Stang is because they've released their 2013 models, GM has not yet done so. There are folks on C5 who've been searching other state's inventorys for a Camaro SS and find they're getting pretty rare. I suspect when the 13s are released, the trend and trophy will go back to the Camaro. I agree, there needs to be some reason to trade up and depending on the price of the 1LE, that could be a reason to do so.

[Frank in MD]

Originally Posted by truth411

This made me lol, no way in hell the next mustang gt would wiegh 3100 lbs..lighter than a Z06 vette... and still be price competitive lol....

Who said anything about 3100 lbs? Where did you get that number? I said if the next stang has an IRS instead of the live axle, has similar power while weighing 500 lbs less priced similarly, and still has more content it would be trouble for Chevy.

The current SS weighs, what? 3800-3900 lbs? Current Mustang weighs 3600 lbs?

Maybe 500 lbs was on the generous side, but there is a clear weight advantage right now, and prices and power are about even. Both manufacturers have stated a desire to lessen curb weight for the next generation of their respective pony cars.

Call me skeptical on GM's claim, as the cars they produce in every class seem gregariously heavier than those cars in segments in which they compete.

[jd10013]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

I think the sales improvement in the Stang is because they've released their 2013 models, GM has not yet done so. There are folks on C5 who've been searching other state's inventorys for a Camaro SS and find they're getting pretty rare. I suspect when the 13s are released, the trend and trophy will go back to the Camaro. I agree, there needs to be some reason to trade up and depending on the price of the 1LE, that could be a reason to do so.

this.

I know the inventories at my local dealers is severely depleted. but it's actaully the opposite around here. only thing they have lefter are the higher priced ones. anything under 30k is pretty much gone now.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by Frank in MD

Who said anything about 3100 lbs? Where did you get that number? I said if the next stang has an IRS instead of the live axle, has similar power while weighing 500 lbs less priced similarly, and still has more content it would be trouble for Chevy.

The current SS weighs, what? 3800-3900 lbs? Current Mustang weighs 3600 lbs?

Maybe 500 lbs was on the generous side, but there is a clear weight advantage right now, and prices and power are about even. Both manufacturers have stated a desire to lessen curb weight for the next generation of their respective pony cars.

Call me skeptical on GM's claim, as the cars they produce in every class seem gregariously heavier than those cars in segments in which they compete.

Historically, that has been the case.

But, take a look at the new Alpha-based ATS that just launched. It's lighter than the competition at around 3300 lbs... for a 4 door luxury sports sedan.

[Fenderaddict2]

Here there are better deals on the dealer floor on Camaro, but I have never seen so many new model Mustangs on the street before. The new nose and tail must be a big hit.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Here there are better deals on the dealer floor on Camaro, but I have never seen so many new model Mustangs on the street before. The new nose and tail must be a big hit.

Couldn't be further form the truth.

There's actual data that can be publicly found. Check out TrueCar

Quick search and you'll find this:

2012 Mustang GT Premium = average of $5,043 in savings
2012 Mustang GT = average of $4,643 in savings
2012 Camaro 2SS = average of $551 in savings

(based on Metro Detroit dealers)

[roorback]

I believe that's 2 months in a row and Ford has been close for awhile. Chally making a hige push. Pony cars are all the rage at the moment.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by shrinkdoc

The Ford 5.0 is a good Motor and is starting to shine. The Chevy 6.2 is good also but rumors are flying that Chevy is looking to downsize the base motor with a reworked 5.3 and tagging it a 327. The 5.3 is lighter can be made easily into a powerhouse, easily supercharge and turbo charged and is a proven maintenance free performer. The 5.3 was used in a variety of car from the 90s up to 2005 but was nowhere near setup to its capabilities. The SS Monte Carlo used this until the car was discontinued. I suspect the Gen 6 camaro which is to be smaller and lighter will use this as the base V8. These 5.3 motors are already being sold as crate motors for racing

How much lighter can it be? It's the same block.

[Kiss My SS]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Here there are better deals on the dealer floor on Camaro, but I have never seen so many new model Mustangs on the street before. The new nose and tail must be a big hit.

I saw a young guy today with a new 13 GT 5.0 Mustang, he was bobbing and weaving in and out of traffic and he cut over 2 lanes I guess to show his 5.0 power and almost hit the center lane divider and I told my GF, that car wont last 6 months with him behind the wheel.

It had the new tailight and front end and I particuarly didnt care for it much. When the Mustang came with that same body design on 2005 it was a absolute hit but 7 years later I beleive it has run its course...

[tstanfa]

Originally Posted by shrinkdoc

The Ford 5.0 is a good Motor and is starting to shine. The Chevy 6.2 is good also but rumors are flying that Chevy is looking to downsize the base motor with a reworked 5.3 and tagging it a 327. The 5.3 is lighter can be made easily into a powerhouse, easily supercharge and turbo charged and is a proven maintenance free performer. The 5.3 was used in a variety of car from the 90s up to 2005 but was nowhere near setup to its capabilities. The SS Monte Carlo used this until the car was discontinued. I suspect the Gen 6 camaro which is to be smaller and lighter will use this as the base V8. These 5.3 motors are already being sold as crate motors for racing

Chevy is actually working on a new generation of V8 and I've read that it will be displacing 5.5 liters, not sure what that works out to in cubic inches...I'm sure a smaller, more efficient V8 that produces as much, if not more power is in the Camaro's future, but probably not until the Gen 6 car.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Frank in MD

Call me skeptical on GM's claim, as the cars they produce in every class seem gregariously heavier than those cars in segments in which they compete.

Fail.

Originally Posted by tstanfa

Chevy is actually working on a new generation of V8 and I've read that it will be displacing 5.5 liters, not sure what that works out to in cubic inches...I'm sure a smaller, more efficient V8 that produces as much, if not more power is in the Camaro's future, but probably not until the Gen 6 car.

No 5.5L. Gen Vs retain 5.3 and 6.2L displacements.