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Old 07-07-2012, 09:27 PM   #69
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I guess because I have long periods of darkness on this forum. people forget where I have stood and still stand. I have never supported the LS7 like most in this section. I have my reasons and have been given before.

you talk about the LS3 as being near dead and talk about how the LS7 is what the Z28 should have. The LS7 is on it's last legs also. but whatever. I just think your feeling about the zl1 not stepping up is wrong. I feel the ZL1 is the better car all around. so what if it can't accelerate faster. honing in that much power for the average driver will be a task. the ZL1 is better for average drivers.

we don't know what's up the sleeve of GM. they could come out with the Gen V in the Z28 and then the smaller version of the Gen V for the SS. I think that would play out quite nicely.
I mention the LS3 as being near dead to make the point that they probably won't enhance it in any way. As i said they didn't do it for the GS. But then also the 5Gen Camaro and LS7 are both short lived. However this provides the combining of them together in one last hurrah for the Z28. I also said in this and previous threads that I would also like the GenV engine if it is above the base V8 model. My point is that GM has the opportunity to one up the Boss LS with a Z28/LS7. This should be a clear win. The ZL1 VS. GT500 is not a clear win in performance. Yet the ZL1 is the "better" engineered car.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:28 PM   #70
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First I'll start by saying the more the merrier, HOWEVER they really need to educate themselves first. There is a lot of well thought out scenarios in this section of the forum if they'd only take the time.
But what if none of those ideas fit what you want? What if you want something more modern and lighter? But still a track animal of course.

I do not think any current NA Chevy engine in a Camaro will out run a ZL1 at the track. And GM says the iLE should run with the Boss. There is not a lot of room there in between.

And it gets a little tricky with weight. The ZL1 has a much heavier differential than the SS. I think, and I could be wrong, that this, after the supercharger, is the second biggest reason for the ZL1 weight gain. So what if Chevy decides the LS7 needs the beefier differential to handle the LS7 over the long haul. Keeping MRC (it sounds like it is worth the weight gain) for the moment, there may only be a 100 pound difference between the ZL1 and an LS7 Z28.

Is a Z28 @ 4,000 pounds a Z28?

Finding out how good the ZL1 is at the track is a Z28 game changer for me. Except for the cost, poor gas milage, and gas guzzler tax, I want one. Apparently the weight is not a problem at all at the track or anywhere else. And looking at what Pedders is saying about the ZL1, you can easily raise the ZL1 bar with some simple suspension mods. And an additional 100 hp is there for the taking.

So, what if say SLP slips an LS7 and the ZL1 front brakes into the 1LE and creates the Z28SLP. Would that fit the bill?
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:36 PM   #71
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I'm hearing you. I believe the 1LE with an LS7, ZL1 brakes, Aero and other minor tweaks is all that's needed. This would compete with the Boss LS. The 1LE will compete with the Boss.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:19 PM   #72
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I'm hearing you. I believe the 1LE with an LS7, ZL1 brakes, Aero and other minor tweaks is all that's needed. This would compete with the Boss LS. The 1LE will compete with the Boss.
Cool then. I am looking forward to how the 1LE will stack up against both Bosses. With 80 hp less than the GT500 the ZL1 runs dead even with it around a track (depending on the track and the bravery and skill of the GT500 driver).

With a much smaller power difference and more torque going to the 1LE, the Boss/1LE matchup will be interesting. The weight difference should be about the same as the big boys.
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:49 AM   #73
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What ever Chevy does, they better do it soon. I need a new car and don't know how much longer I can hold out for a Z28.
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:54 PM   #74
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Amen!
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:57 PM   #75
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Cool then. I am looking forward to how the 1LE will stack up against both Bosses. With 80 hp less than the GT500 the ZL1 runs dead even with it around a track (depending on the track and the bravery and skill of the GT500 driver).

With a much smaller power difference and more torque going to the 1LE, the Boss/1LE matchup will be interesting. The weight difference should be about the same as the big boys.
I do look forward to seeing how well the 1LE does compaired to the Boss, but I don't see the 1LE hanging with the Boss LS.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:41 PM   #76
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well I am also looking on trading up but it sure is taking some time. I have had my car since June of '09 and not that the improvements of the '11-'13 are that much different, I do like most of them (dash, hud) it does not warrant me trading up as of yet. I have been sitting on the fact that the Z/28 will be resurrected and in my opinion with the 5.3L direct injected motor with MR in a '14 MY camaro. I do not want to wait for the 6th gen because who knows if I will like the styling of it and absolutely love my car now. Sure my car will be paid off in a year and I could change out the dash, add a cam(change motor or add blower) and some way add MR to it, but it will never be to me a Z/28!
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:34 PM   #77
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As I see it;
Mustang V-6=Camaro V-6..........Who really cares
Mustang GT>CamaroSS..............Lighter and more hp makes the difference
Boss Mustang vs. ??????.............Better get it right with the LT1 or Z/28 or whatever they decide to call it.
GT500>=ZL1.............................Not quite the knock out punch Al and Scott had bragged about.

GM engineers need to quit making excuses for why they fail, and just use their talents to make winning vehicles. Watch CNBC's show on Ford, when the engineers where sat down with CR testers, they wanted to make excuses about why they did things the way they did. Ford's CEO told them to shut up and LISTEN to what was wrong with the cars. Maybe the Camaro team needs to have the same style meeting.
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:42 PM   #78
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GM engineers need to quit making excuses for why they fail, and just use their talents to make winning vehicles.

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Old 07-08-2012, 04:58 PM   #79
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GM engineers need to quit making excuses for why they fail, and just use their talents to make winning vehicles.


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Old 07-08-2012, 05:13 PM   #80
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But what if none of those ideas fit what you want? What if you want something more modern and lighter? But still a track animal of course.

I do not think any current NA Chevy engine in a Camaro will out run a ZL1 at the track. And GM says the iLE should run with the Boss. There is not a lot of room there in between.

And it gets a little tricky with weight. The ZL1 has a much heavier differential than the SS. I think, and I could be wrong, that this, after the supercharger, is the second biggest reason for the ZL1 weight gain. So what if Chevy decides the LS7 needs the beefier differential to handle the LS7 over the long haul. Keeping MRC (it sounds like it is worth the weight gain) for the moment, there may only be a 100 pound difference between the ZL1 and an LS7 Z28.

Is a Z28 @ 4,000 pounds a Z28?

Finding out how good the ZL1 is at the track is a Z28 game changer for me. Except for the cost, poor gas milage, and gas guzzler tax, I want one. Apparently the weight is not a problem at all at the track or anywhere else. And looking at what Pedders is saying about the ZL1, you can easily raise the ZL1 bar with some simple suspension mods. And an additional 100 hp is there for the taking.

So, what if say SLP slips an LS7 and the ZL1 front brakes into the 1LE and creates the Z28SLP. Would that fit the bill?
First of all, NOWHERE has "GM" said "The 1LE will run with the BOSS LS". This sort of remark is what has many in the world questioning if the ZL1 is "sub-par" becuse it doesn't "outrun the [2013] GT500", something apparently alluded to by someone at GM, offhandedly.

What GM said was the "1LE is capable of a sub-3:00 lap @ VIR". YOU can draw whatever conclusions YOU wish from that statement...

Let's NOT start a "war of words" BEFORE the 1LE arrives in showrooms...

MRC is NOT "mandatory" for a Z28. The 1LE's enhanced FE4 will suit just fine.

1LE @ 3920 lb. Curb = Z28 Curb with wet LS7, excepting the 6-piston front Brembos from the ZL1. 4000 lb Z28 is not a necessary stat...

Using the 1LE as the basis for an aftermarket-installed LS7 suffers two significant problems: NO GM warranty, bumper-to-bumper; Cost-prohibitive (the pull-out LS3's value would not cover the re-and-re charges, so you're on the hook for the LS7's full $13K cost + MORE = ZL1 money, without a suitable warranty)
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:37 PM   #81
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As I see it;
Mustang V-6=Camaro V-6..........Who really cares
Mustang GT>CamaroSS..............Lighter and more hp makes the difference
Boss Mustang vs. ??????.............Better get it right with the LT1 or Z/28 or whatever they decide to call it.
GT500>=ZL1.............................Not quite the knock out punch Al and Scott had bragged about.

GM engineers need to quit making excuses for why they fail, and just use their talents to make winning vehicles. Watch CNBC's show on Ford, when the engineers where sat down with CR testers, they wanted to make excuses about why they did things the way they did. Ford's CEO told them to shut up and LISTEN to what was wrong with the cars. Maybe the Camaro team needs to have the same style meeting.
Does a GT have more HP than an SS?
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:43 PM   #82
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^Opps, sorry, no it doesn't.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:54 AM   #83
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First of all, NOWHERE has "GM" said "The 1LE will run with the BOSS LS". This sort of remark is what has many in the world questioning if the ZL1 is "sub-par" becuse it doesn't "outrun the [2013] GT500", something apparently alluded to by someone at GM, offhandedly.

What GM said was the "1LE is capable of a sub-3:00 lap @ VIR". YOU can draw whatever conclusions YOU wish from that statement...

Let's NOT start a "war of words" BEFORE the 1LE arrives in showrooms...

MRC is NOT "mandatory" for a Z28. The 1LE's enhanced FE4 will suit just fine.

1LE @ 3920 lb. Curb = Z28 Curb with wet LS7, excepting the 6-piston front Brembos from the ZL1. 4000 lb Z28 is not a necessary stat...

I doubt they would make those claims after the whole "ZL1 will easily handle the GT500" statements that were made.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:29 PM   #84
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I doubt they would make those claims after the whole "ZL1 will easily handle the GT500" statements that were made.
It's easier for them to challenge a rival in this case cause they know what the boss can do. No simulations needed.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:59 PM   #85
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All that's needed then would be for the production hardware and tuning to live up to the simulations that at least have a known target.

Ride & handling isn't something that can be explicitly computed and called done. That's why there are test drivers.


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