ZL1 shifter tear down (pics) - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

RacnJsn95 · 08-07-2012, 06:37 PM

Well I got my ZL1 shifter today. I was really hoping for something special, but I'm pretty disappointed. When it really comes down to it, it's a "fake" short throw shifter.

ZL1 shift on the left, stock SS shift lever on the right. The distance from the center of the fulcrum point (the ball) to the center of the linkage arm connections are pretty much identical. Essentially both shifters have the same mechanical throws. They did however, shorten the lever from the fulcrum point to the top of the stick, which would in theory reduce the shift throw slightly, though not as much as changing the height of the fulcrum point. It reduces the mechanical leverage of the shifter which would make shifts slightly more positive, and would require more force of your hand/arm to shift...

Unlike the stock SS shifter which the 2 pieces are "formed" together with a rubber compound, the ZL1 shifter looks to have the 2 pieces held together with 2 roll pins, with some kind of hard plastic like cushion between the pieces. It does feel stiffer, almost solid, in comparison to the SS shifter, which will reduce the flex one would normally experience with the SS shifter during very hard shifts. This is a good thing. I may drill out the roll pins and see if the shifter comes apart to get a look at the inner workings of this. I tried to drive the roll pin out, but it is actually 2 separate roll pins that don't run all the way through.

I am unsure if the linkage arm that came with the ZL1 shifter is the same as the SS arm or not as I do not have an extra SS arm... Can anyone see any differences here? It is possible that this arm could be slightly longer than the SS arm, which would reduce front to back shift throws, but not side to side. I will get a measurement off of the hole centers when I get back to the shop.

ZL1 top boot on the left, SS on the right. You can see the ZL1 boot has an extra "hump", and is taller. The rubber on the ZL1 boot feels stiffer than the SS boot. This may make the shifter feel tighter than the SS, and possibly help it neutral center better, but doubtful/hard to say.

The aluminum housings are exactly the same. Same pivot bushings, same linkage arm bushings. I talked to a person that has a ZL1 shifter installed on his SS, he said that it felt like the ZL1 "centering springs" felt stiffer, and seemed to center better... This may be because of the stiffer rubber boots? There are no centering springs on the ZL1 shifter as I was hoping there would be. You can see the slight height difference between the ZL1 shifter and the SS shifter here.

I will measure the linkage arm, and hopefully someone else has a spare SS arm laying around they could measure to see if there would be any benefit to running the ZL1 linkage arm.

If the arms are the same, not much point in swapping out the whole shifter assembly, and I will most likely just swap the ZL1 stick, and top boot into my car probably Friday and report back.

I do like the fact that they did away with the "soft" rubber holding the shift lever pieces from the SS shifter, and depending on how much the throw is changed, I believe I will probably cut the pivot ball, and move the fulcrum point up to shorten the throw to where I want it, per my DIY write up on making your own short throw shifter from a factory shifter here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217080

On that note, I was able to modify an extra 2010-12 shift knob in about 5 minutes to work with the ZL1 shift lever, I just need to get the correct screw to permanently attach the knob.

Nick S · 08-07-2012, 09:22 PM

Hey Jason,
This is Nick here (Nick 2K2 SS from MC forum). Since you were asking me about my ZL1 shifter install I found your thread interesting. Since I didn't install the shifter myself I didn't get to see exactly what it looked like.
Anyhow I took the liberty of getting out my stock SS shifter and measuring the shifter arm linkage for you. I've attached a picture. Note that I held the tape measure starting at the 1" mark so even though the tape reads 10.5" it's really only 9.5" center to center on the linkage arm. Hope this helps.

Nick.

Nick S · 08-07-2012, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RacnJsn95

I talked to a person that has a ZL1 shifter installed on his SS, he said that it felt like the ZL1 "centering springs" felt stiffer, and seemed to center better... This may be because of the stiffer rubber boots? There are no centering springs on the ZL1 shifter as I was hoping there would be. You can see the slight height difference between the ZL1 shifter and the SS shifter here.

Sorry for misleading you with wrong info Jason. Thanks for clarifying that there are no centering springs. As I said in the last post I did not install the shifter myself, I had it done at a dealership for a really good deal so it didn't make sense for me to mess around with it. But this helps me know what the differences really are now.

Overall though I do like the feel of the ZL1 shifter much better than the stock shifter. Even if the differences are small they seem to add up to a much nicer feel. Although I cannot compare the feel of this shifter to other shifters since I have not driven any cars with shifters such as the MGW or any of the short throw replacement sticks such as the LG motorsport stick that I have sitting in my bedroom and now have no use for. Unless you can figure out a way to make the LG stick work in the with the ZL1 shifter knob?

Thanks for the write up by the way. Very informative and enlightening.

Nick.

edgehead2000 · 08-07-2012, 10:20 PM

Interesting to think that maybe just changing out my SS boot with the ZL1's might make it a bit tighter... right now my shifter wiggles a little wherever its at. Thought it was the worn bushings.

Is there a part number for the ZL1's boot?

RacnJsn95 · 08-07-2012, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edgehead2000

Interesting to think that maybe just changing out my SS boot with the ZL1's might make it a bit tighter... right now my shifter wiggles a little wherever its at. Thought it was the worn bushings.

Is there a part number for the ZL1's boot?

It appears the boot can not be ordered by itself, it comes with the whole shifter assembly... I'm not putting much faith in the boot actually making a difference, although like I said, the rubber does seem "slightly" stiffer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick S

Hey Jason,
This is Nick here (Nick 2K2 SS from MC forum). Since you were asking me about my ZL1 shifter install I found your thread interesting. Since I didn't install the shifter myself I didn't get to see exactly what it looked like.
Anyhow I took the liberty of getting out my stock SS shifter and measuring the shifter arm linkage for you. I've attached a picture. Note that I held the tape measure starting at the 1" mark so even though the tape reads 10.5" it's really only 9.5" center to center on the linkage arm. Hope this helps.

Nick.

Thanks for the measurement Nick! I measured the ZL1 linkage, and it is also 9.5" :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick S

Sorry for misleading you with wrong info Jason. Thanks for clarifying that there are no centering springs. As I said in the last post I did not install the shifter myself, I had it done at a dealership for a really good deal so it didn't make sense for me to mess around with it. But this helps me know what the differences really are now.

Overall though I do like the feel of the ZL1 shifter much better than the stock shifter. Even if the differences are small they seem to add up to a much nicer feel. Although I cannot compare the feel of this shifter to other shifters since I have not driven any cars with shifters such as the MGW or any of the short throw replacement sticks such as the LG motorsport stick that I have sitting in my bedroom and now have no use for. Unless you can figure out a way to make the LG stick work in the with the ZL1 shifter knob?

Thanks for the write up by the way. Very informative and enlightening.

Nick.

No problem, it did sound like it had centering springs from your description. I am currently working on an addition to the stock shifter housing to incorporate centering springs.

For what it matters, all of the bushings in the shifter housing, and the rear housing mount appear to be the same "soft" rubber in the ZL1, as the SS. Pivot bushing is the same.

I measured up the stock shifter, and the ZL1 shifter, and using the throw dimensions of my DIY "20%" reduction shifter in the car and drew the following rough diagram of all 3 shifters full motion of throw with measurements... The red is a representation of the stock SS shifter throw, the blue is the ZL1 shifter throw. Notice that the ZL1 and SS shifter have the same angle at full throw, the ZL1 shifter travel is slightly less because of the shorter stick on top of the fulcrum point. The green lines are the modified stock shifter that I did. Because of the raised fulcrum point it actually is a shorter throw.

I'll put just the ZL1 stick in the shifter housing in my car, since all the other pieces are pretty much the same, and see how it feels. I think I will probably pull it back out in short order and have to modify it.

monstertodd · 08-08-2012, 02:54 PM

in short.......if you want a true "short throw" shifter.........go with the aftermarket.

RacnJsn95 · 08-08-2012, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monstertodd

in short.......if you want a true "short throw" shifter.........go with the aftermarket.

Or modify a stock one.

jesserayjames · 08-08-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monstertodd

in short.......if you want a true "short throw" shifter.........go with the aftermarket.

What He said..............................

Nick S · 08-08-2012, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RacnJsn95

Well I got my ZL1 shifter today. I was really hoping for something special, but I'm pretty disappointed. When it really comes down to it, it's a "fake" short throw shifter.

One other difference I notice from your pictures above Jason is that it appears the ZL1 shifter stick has a different bushing in the end. I can see two black ends of the bushing in your picture but the stock SS shifter appears to be just the regular metal from the stick with no bushing in it. Since you had that actual two parts in your hand can you offer any more observations regarding this?

Thanks.

Nick.

ckaram · 08-08-2012, 06:16 PM

Hey Jason, it appears the knob from the ZL1 shifter will not fit the stock stick. Can you confirm?

Thanks,

Chris

RacnJsn95 · 08-08-2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick S

One other difference I notice from your pictures above Jason is that it appears the ZL1 shifter stick has a different bushing in the end. I can see two black ends of the bushing in your picture but the stock SS shifter appears to be just the regular metal from the stick with no bushing in it. Since you had that actual two parts in your hand can you offer any more observations regarding this?

Thanks.

Nick.

I did not have a spare bushing for the SS shifter on hand, so it is pictured without one, but I'm fairly certain the bushings are the same. One end of the bushing is flanged, and slides in from one side, the other side sticks out about the same distance as the flange. I have another complete SS shifter that should be showing up anyday now that hopefully has the bushing, and I can compare. If it doesn't show up soon I can compare when I take the shifte that's in my car now out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckaram

Hey Jason, it appears the knob from the ZL1 shifter will not fit the stock stick. Can you confirm?

Thanks,

Chris

I do not have the ZL1 knob, but I have read that it will not fit the stock shifter, and it does not appear from looking at the two shift levers that the ZL1 knob will fit the stock SS/LS/LT shifer. It may be possible to modify the stock non ZL1 shifter to work with the ZL1 knob, but it looks like it would require more work than it took me to get my SS knob to fit the ZL1 shifter.

SUX2BU · 08-08-2012, 07:29 PM

The linkage arm has to be the same on both shifters. If it was shorter or longer it wouldn't reduce or lengthen the "throw". It would just move the entire throw either forward or back.

RacnJsn95 · 08-08-2012, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

The linkage arm has to be the same on both shifters. If it was shorter or longer it wouldn't reduce or lengthen the "throw". It would just move the entire throw either forward or back.

I wasn't really think too hard about that, but since you mentioned it I rethought it. You are correct.

I'm also wondering now if the non ZL1 2013 shifter is constructed the same way as the one I have here, and if it's a shorter stick or not?

Synner · 08-08-2012, 09:10 PM

Now someone needs to yank a hurst stick and see what the difference is. I wouldn't be shocked if they're the same dimensions as the ZL1 with slightly different construction methods. But remove the hurst name and it costs 1/5 the price.

RacnJsn95 · 08-08-2012, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synner

Now someone needs to yank a hurst stick and see what the difference is. I wouldn't be shocked if they're the same dimensions as the ZL1 with slightly different construction methods. But remove the hurst name and it costs 1/5 the price.

I'd love to get my hands on one, but can't justify the cost. The bottom of the factory Hurst is machined from one solid piece, looks real nice. Same top piece as the regular shifter.

SUX2BU · 08-08-2012, 11:10 PM

RacnJsn95 · 08-09-2012, 12:23 AM

Thanks for the pic! It looks like the distance from the center of the pivot ball, and the center of the linkage connection is quite a bit longer than the stock SS/ZL1 shifter. I've seen good pictures of the Hurst shifter before, but they never showed it from that angle to really see the difference of the fulcrum point. The bottom piece also looked fairly shiny, I assumed it might have been stainless, but looking at your picture of what I assume to be a used shifter, maybe not stainless?

08-07-2012, 06:37 PM	#1
RacnJsn95 Drives: 2010 1SS Camaro; 72 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Point, OR Posts: 1,953 View My Garage	ZL1 shifter tear down (pics) Well I got my ZL1 shifter today. I was really hoping for something special, but I'm pretty disappointed. When it really comes down to it, it's a "fake" short throw shifter. ZL1 shift on the left, stock SS shift lever on the right. The distance from the center of the fulcrum point (the ball) to the center of the linkage arm connections are pretty much identical. Essentially both shifters have the same mechanical throws. They did however, shorten the lever from the fulcrum point to the top of the stick, which would in theory reduce the shift throw slightly, though not as much as changing the height of the fulcrum point. It reduces the mechanical leverage of the shifter which would make shifts slightly more positive, and would require more force of your hand/arm to shift... Unlike the stock SS shifter which the 2 pieces are "formed" together with a rubber compound, the ZL1 shifter looks to have the 2 pieces held together with 2 roll pins, with some kind of hard plastic like cushion between the pieces. It does feel stiffer, almost solid, in comparison to the SS shifter, which will reduce the flex one would normally experience with the SS shifter during very hard shifts. This is a good thing. I may drill out the roll pins and see if the shifter comes apart to get a look at the inner workings of this. I tried to drive the roll pin out, but it is actually 2 separate roll pins that don't run all the way through. I am unsure if the linkage arm that came with the ZL1 shifter is the same as the SS arm or not as I do not have an extra SS arm... Can anyone see any differences here? It is possible that this arm could be slightly longer than the SS arm, which would reduce front to back shift throws, but not side to side. I will get a measurement off of the hole centers when I get back to the shop. ZL1 top boot on the left, SS on the right. You can see the ZL1 boot has an extra "hump", and is taller. The rubber on the ZL1 boot feels stiffer than the SS boot. This may make the shifter feel tighter than the SS, and possibly help it neutral center better, but doubtful/hard to say. The aluminum housings are exactly the same. Same pivot bushings, same linkage arm bushings. I talked to a person that has a ZL1 shifter installed on his SS, he said that it felt like the ZL1 "centering springs" felt stiffer, and seemed to center better... This may be because of the stiffer rubber boots? There are no centering springs on the ZL1 shifter as I was hoping there would be. You can see the slight height difference between the ZL1 shifter and the SS shifter here. I will measure the linkage arm, and hopefully someone else has a spare SS arm laying around they could measure to see if there would be any benefit to running the ZL1 linkage arm. If the arms are the same, not much point in swapping out the whole shifter assembly, and I will most likely just swap the ZL1 stick, and top boot into my car probably Friday and report back. I do like the fact that they did away with the "soft" rubber holding the shift lever pieces from the SS shifter, and depending on how much the throw is changed, I believe I will probably cut the pivot ball, and move the fulcrum point up to shorten the throw to where I want it, per my DIY write up on making your own short throw shifter from a factory shifter here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217080 On that note, I was able to modify an extra 2010-12 shift knob in about 5 minutes to work with the ZL1 shift lever, I just need to get the correct screw to permanently attach the knob. Last edited by RacnJsn95; 08-07-2012 at 07:09 PM.

08-07-2012, 09:22 PM	#2
Nick S Drives: 2013 Camaro 1LE / 2002 Camaro SS Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Verona, WI Posts: 293	Hey Jason, This is Nick here (Nick 2K2 SS from MC forum). Since you were asking me about my ZL1 shifter install I found your thread interesting. Since I didn't install the shifter myself I didn't get to see exactly what it looked like. Anyhow I took the liberty of getting out my stock SS shifter and measuring the shifter arm linkage for you. I've attached a picture. Note that I held the tape measure starting at the 1" mark so even though the tape reads 10.5" it's really only 9.5" center to center on the linkage arm. Hope this helps. Nick. Attached Images

08-08-2012, 02:54 PM	#6
monstertodd Allyourbasearebelongtous Drives: 2010 Cyber Grey Metallic 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tega Cay, South Carolina Posts: 3,462 View My Garage	in short.......if you want a true "short throw" shifter.........go with the aftermarket. __________________

08-08-2012, 06:16 PM	#10
ckaram Drives: 2011 2SS RS, 1968 ragtop Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,507	Hey Jason, it appears the knob from the ZL1 shifter will not fit the stock stick. Can you confirm? Thanks, Chris __________________ Current Camaros: 1968 convertible, original 327, Iron Eagle heads, DT headers, Magnaflows, Muncie 4-speed, 3.08 posi, 17" Torque Thrusts, 2011 2SS/RS, LS3, M6, IOM in and out, factory Hurst short throw, GMPP axleback exhaust Delivered 5/14/11

08-08-2012, 07:29 PM	#12
SUX2BU Quit being a pu$$y Drives: FAST Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Sachse TX (DFW) Posts: 5,467 View My Garage	The linkage arm has to be the same on both shifters. If it was shorter or longer it wouldn't reduce or lengthen the "throw". It would just move the entire throw either forward or back. __________________ <----- Click HERE to see ALL of my mods/write ups

08-07-2012, 10:20 PM	#4
edgehead2000 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS SIM M6 Drives: Nemesis Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 632 View My Garage	Interesting to think that maybe just changing out my SS boot with the ZL1's might make it a bit tighter... right now my shifter wiggles a little wherever its at. Thought it was the worn bushings. Is there a part number for the ZL1's boot?

08-08-2012, 09:10 PM	#14
Synner Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sandbox Posts: 2,150	Now someone needs to yank a hurst stick and see what the difference is. I wouldn't be shocked if they're the same dimensions as the ZL1 with slightly different construction methods. But remove the hurst name and it costs 1/5 the price.

08-08-2012, 11:10 PM	#16
SUX2BU Quit being a pu$$y Drives: FAST Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Sachse TX (DFW) Posts: 5,467 View My Garage	__________________ <----- Click HERE to see ALL of my mods/write ups

08-09-2012, 12:23 AM	#17
RacnJsn95 Drives: 2010 1SS Camaro; 72 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Point, OR Posts: 1,953 View My Garage	Thanks for the pic! It looks like the distance from the center of the pivot ball, and the center of the linkage connection is quite a bit longer than the stock SS/ZL1 shifter. I've seen good pictures of the Hurst shifter before, but they never showed it from that angle to really see the difference of the fulcrum point. The bottom piece also looked fairly shiny, I assumed it might have been stainless, but looking at your picture of what I assume to be a used shifter, maybe not stainless?