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Old 08-15-2012, 07:18 PM   #4951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600hp-lpe View Post
Yeah.. GM saved... what.. about $1.00 in their build cost combining the reservoirs? Or.. they wanted to make more money selling reservoirs over the parts counter...

most do the ranger method.

I pity the people who havn't seperated the reservoir's and drive their cars normal.. not knowing that that crap is gonna get into everything Clutch and brake, at some time. That's gonna be an expensive fix if you left it for a few years of normal driving and didn't know about it..

Some, like me added the Tick Performance SS bleed line. I can flush the clutch fluid in under 5 minutes through the entire system, not just the reservoir. I do it after every race.

I already replaced the fluid from the Camaro fest.. and have my ABS working again now, too.
I'm still on a common reservoir... But I also have the bleeder line and frequently flush the lines... All clean and good... So far... A clutch res will not fit there on my car... Boost controller solenoids are mounted there...
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:01 PM   #4952
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Well I track my car so I need to look into this.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:09 PM   #4953
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Originally Posted by 600hp-lpe View Post

Some, like me added the Tick Performance SS bleed line.
Wow, thanks for posting. Was just racking my brain this morning, trying to remember who made it.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:17 PM   #4954
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The separate clutch reservoir does keep your fluid cleaner. It does nothing to enhance performance and according to my experts the discoloration nof the fluid does not degrade performance.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:01 PM   #4955
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The separate clutch reservoir does keep your fluid cleaner. It does nothing to enhance performance and according to my experts the discoloration nof the fluid does not degrade performance.
well my non-expertise begs to differ. after i learned about the ranger method about a year & a half ago, i decided to test it out. i went out in my truck, which has the standard New Venture NV3500 5 speed transmission - notorious for having a horrible time trying to do a high-rpm 2-3 shift after launching in 1st - much like the f-body T56, and partially for the same reason.

test 1: went out as it sat, drove around a little to warm the truck up & then pulled from a dig. ran up to about 5500 in 2nd, and (as usual) had to double-clutch to successfully get it in 3rd. nothing new.

variable: changed the fluid in the clutch reservoir using the ranger method til everything stayed clear when i pumped the pedal. mind you, this was the first time i'd changed the fluid since i bought it in '06 and put a new clutch in (and even then, it wasn't a real flush - just a top-off).

test 2: drove out to the same place as before & from a dig, i launched, revved, and slammed second. now for the moment of truth... wound it up to about 5500 and BAM!!!! 3rd went right in. amazed & thinking it was a fluke, i turned around & did it again - this time up to 6000. once again, shifted right in with one pedal push. even on a third kicks-and-giggles run, i got the same single-pedal-effort results.

conclusion: i believe the clean fluid does, in fact, make a difference. i believe it's partly due to the design of my particular system. much like the 4th gen T56 clutch line from the master to the slave, the trucks also have a restriction in the hydraulic line. my year's system ain't just a little restrictor inside the end that can be drilled out; half of it's braided line that then molds to a narrower piece of hard plastic flex line. my belief is that the clutch dust getting in the fluid gives it a higher viscosity & therefore can't flow quite fast enough to meet the demand of refilling the reservoir in time to shift to 3rd - thus requiring another pump of the pedal to get enough fluid inside the slave to fully disengage the plate. the clean fluid, however, seemed to be able to do this much better.

outcome: when i got home, i rangered out my car's fluid as well.

note: the fluid starts getting dark after a few drives anyway, and at low RPMs with slower/smoother shifts, it don't really matter that much. but it would definitely help when racing.

my next steps: get speed bleeders on both vehicles next time i put clutches in.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:46 AM   #4956
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actually it looks like a little bit of rust on the nut.. the shape is intact if you look closely.

Chris must be hanging out at the beach in the salt spray...
It's okay, rusty nuts happen occasionally as we get older.... don't worry about it Chris, I'm sure they still work just fine
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:37 AM   #4957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra View Post
well my non-expertise begs to differ. after i learned about the ranger method about a year & a half ago, i decided to test it out. i went out in my truck, which has the standard New Venture NV3500 5 speed transmission - notorious for having a horrible time trying to do a high-rpm 2-3 shift after launching in 1st - much like the f-body T56, and partially for the same reason.

test 1: went out as it sat, drove around a little to warm the truck up & then pulled from a dig. ran up to about 5500 in 2nd, and (as usual) had to double-clutch to successfully get it in 3rd. nothing new.

variable: changed the fluid in the clutch reservoir using the ranger method til everything stayed clear when i pumped the pedal. mind you, this was the first time i'd changed the fluid since i bought it in '06 and put a new clutch in (and even then, it wasn't a real flush - just a top-off).

test 2: drove out to the same place as before & from a dig, i launched, revved, and slammed second. now for the moment of truth... wound it up to about 5500 and BAM!!!! 3rd went right in. amazed & thinking it was a fluke, i turned around & did it again - this time up to 6000. once again, shifted right in with one pedal push. even on a third kicks-and-giggles run, i got the same single-pedal-effort results.

conclusion: i believe the clean fluid does, in fact, make a difference. i believe it's partly due to the design of my particular system. much like the 4th gen T56 clutch line from the master to the slave, the trucks also have a restriction in the hydraulic line. my year's system ain't just a little restrictor inside the end that can be drilled out; half of it's braided line that then molds to a narrower piece of hard plastic flex line. my belief is that the clutch dust getting in the fluid gives it a higher viscosity & therefore can't flow quite fast enough to meet the demand of refilling the reservoir in time to shift to 3rd - thus requiring another pump of the pedal to get enough fluid inside the slave to fully disengage the plate. the clean fluid, however, seemed to be able to do this much better.

outcome: when i got home, i rangered out my car's fluid as well.

note: the fluid starts getting dark after a few drives anyway, and at low RPMs with slower/smoother shifts, it don't really matter that much. but it would definitely help when racing.

my next steps: get speed bleeders on both vehicles next time i put clutches in.
Most of the discoloration is from the hoses. Your variation if performance was most likely due to the fresh fluid for the first time in years.

It isn't the color of the fluid. It is the condition of fluid. Moisture content, boiled fluid, low temperature fluid, etc...

I don't portend to be a expert in the field of brake and clutch hydraulics, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn three weeks ago All kidding aside, I am fortunate to have access to some of the best of the best in the industry. When they talk I listen, unless I don't like their answer
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:22 PM   #4958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Most of the discoloration is from the hoses. Your variation if performance was most likely due to the fresh fluid for the first time in years.

It isn't the color of the fluid. It is the condition of fluid. Moisture content, boiled fluid, low temperature fluid, etc...

I don't portend to be a expert in the field of brake and clutch hydraulics, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn three weeks ago All kidding aside, I am fortunate to have access to some of the best of the best in the industry. When they talk I listen, unless I don't like their answer
Hmm... Then I guess time will tell.. As all my clutch lines are now Stainless Steel with Teflon/PTFE inside.. so there should be no discoloration... from the hoses, anyway.

As to Pete sleeping at a Holiday Inn.. I hope it was OK... I havn't stayed at a H. Inn in a Long time.. and I still remember the last one there, about 8+ yrs ago. Easy to remember when the air conditioner leaks and leaves 1" of water on the floor overnight.. Kind of a knee jerk wake up call in the middle of the night's bathroom run... WTF??? Oh Damn...!!!
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:29 AM   #4959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post

It isn't the color of the fluid. It is the condition of fluid. Moisture content, boiled fluid, low temperature fluid, etc...
Ask me how I know about this...

hence my current SS brake lines and DOT4 Super Blue brake fluid.

83 mph into a turn at Harris Hills with no brakes.

I boiled my brake fluid at the end of the 4th track session. 4 sessions at 20min per session. About 50 min between my sessions. Once the brake fluid gets that hot, you MUST change it out. I know you know this...just saying in general.


yeah...that was some scary sh!t.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:20 AM   #4960
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Ask me how I know about this...

hence my current SS brake lines and DOT4 Super Blue brake fluid.

83 mph into a turn at Harris Hills with no brakes.

I boiled my brake fluid at the end of the 4th track session. 4 sessions at 20min per session. About 50 min between my sessions. Once the brake fluid gets that hot, you MUST change it out. I know you know this...just saying in general.


yeah...that was some scary sh!t.
I got some fluid that will fix that "little" problem
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:42 AM   #4961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Most of the discoloration is from the hoses. Your variation if performance was most likely due to the fresh fluid for the first time in years.

It isn't the color of the fluid. It is the condition of fluid. Moisture content, boiled fluid, low temperature fluid, etc...

I don't portend to be a expert in the field of brake and clutch hydraulics, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn three weeks ago All kidding aside, I am fortunate to have access to some of the best of the best in the industry. When they talk I listen, unless I don't like their answer
Moisture ruins brake fluid - literally. I use a lot of the Ranger's methods in my general maintenance/upkeep, but one thing that I follow to a T is that I always use a brand new bottle when swapping fluid. Once you open the bottle it's all downhill from there.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:51 AM   #4962
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Moisture ruins brake fluid - literally. I use a lot of the Ranger's methods in my general maintenance/upkeep, but one thing that I follow to a T is that I always use a brand new bottle when swapping fluid. Once you open the bottle it's all downhill from there.
When doing a fluid flush that makes sense. But the brake fluid in the system can't help be be exposed to the elements. The reservoir itself isn't air tight..

When adding to the reservoir, as long as the fluid isn't months old it shouldn't make a difference.

As far as preserving the fluid you have in the bottle, I aggree, Don't open it unitl you plan to use it. And at $70 for the SRF I may put the leftover fluid in a vacuum sealed container.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:59 AM   #4963
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hygroscopic brake fluid is made to absord moisture. That's how the "wet" boiling point is determined, which is much lower than the dry. 3, 4, 5.1

If you put hypophobic brake fluid (DOT 5 does not absorb moisture) it will keep a higher boiling point over it's life, but moisture and the fluid will be separate. Not good.

Moisture is going to happen just with hot engines and cool outside temps. Condensation you can't beat. What happened to Doug is he met and surpassed that wet boiling temp and the fluid was literally vaporized. That vapor is compressed which won't allow the flow of hydraulic fluids.

Charts usually show a 3.7% value of moisture to achieve a "wet" boiling temp. The more we drive with the same fluid in there, the more moisture it's going to absorb and that value will get larger while your boiling point keeps decreasing.

So, moisture is going to happen period. You want it to be absorbed in the fluid, you just want to change it more often if you track your car.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:00 PM   #4964
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hygroscopic brake fluid is made to absord moisture. That's how the "wet" boiling point is determined, which is much lower than the dry. 3, 4, 5.1

If you put hypophobic brake fluid (DOT 5 does not absorb moisture) it will keep a higher boiling point over it's life, but moisture and the fluid will be separate. Not good.

Moisture is going to happen just with hot engines and cool outside temps. Condensation you can't beat. What happened to Doug is he met and surpassed that wet boiling temp and the fluid was literally vaporized. That vapor is compressed which won't allow the flow of hydraulic fluids.

Charts usually show a 3.7% value of moisture to achieve a "wet" boiling temp. The more we drive with the same fluid in there, the more moisture it's going to absorb and that value will get larger while your boiling point keeps decreasing.

So, moisture is going to happen period. You want it to be absorbed in the fluid, you just want to change it more often if you track your car.


Hence why the SRF stuff is so guuuder

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Castrol SRF Brake Fluid is a DOT 4 brake fluid suitable for all disc and drum brake systems except those prescribed for mineral oil. Castrol SRF is a high-performance product. Castrol SRF Brake Fluid's unique silicon ester technology absorbs less water than conventional glycol ether fluids and prevents the fluid's high temperature performance from deteriorating. Its wet boiling point of 270°C (518°F) is vastly superior to the minimum requirement of 155°C demanded by the current US DOT 4 specification. Its ability to withstand temperatures in excess of 300°C and superior resistance to the effects of absorbed water have established Castrol SRF Brake Fluid as the world's premier fluid for the hydraulic brakes used in all forms of motorsport and racing. 1 Liter Bottle.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:12 PM   #4965
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Yup. That and you gots some big brakes.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:44 PM   #4966
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Most of the discoloration is from the hoses. Your variation if performance was most likely due to the fresh fluid for the first time in years.
...
yeah, i reckon i did for get to take that into account
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Old 08-17-2012, 06:53 PM   #4967
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There's a solution to your fluid problems.....


..... I use compressed air, and it's $0.00 a pint
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:01 PM   #4968
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There's a solution to your fluid problems.....


..... I use compressed air, and it's $0.00 a pint
GTAHVIT uses orange juice.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:22 PM   #4969
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There's a solution to your fluid problems.....


..... I use compressed air, and it's $0.00 a pint
We use air brakes on our trucks at the station, all is good and well until you run out of compressed air
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:31 PM   #4970
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:32 PM   #4971
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GTAHVIT uses orange juice.
Brake fluid you can drink in an emergency..... I like it


Quote:
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We use air brakes on our trucks at the station, all is good and well until you run out of compressed air
It's not so bad, you just skid to a stop... actually kinda fun

Semi uses 22.5 wheels, some donks are bigger than that, so the drums could conceivably fit... add brake pots, air dryer, replace that goofy parking brake handle with a cool knob on the dash, you're good to go racing!

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Old 08-17-2012, 08:35 PM   #4972
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Brake fluid you can drink in an emergency..... I like it




It's not so bad, you just skid to a stop... actually kinda fun

Semi uses 22.5 wheels, some donks are bigger than that, so the drums could conceivably fit... add brake pots, air dryer, replace that goofy parking brake handle with a cool knob on the dash, you're good to go racing!

and at $70 a bottle you'd save a pretty penny.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:29 AM   #4973
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I got some fluid that will fix that "little" problem
how bout some rotors and calipers....
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:40 PM   #4974
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how bout some rotors and calipers....
I have a set... LOL but I don't think they are gonna be any better than what you have now...
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:42 PM   #4975
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does the carbon ceramic kit swap over to the camaro?
i know a guy put them on his C5 vette, but that's the same basic platform
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