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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 08-31-2012, 11:20 PM   #2001
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:09 AM   #2002
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How much are people be willing to pay for a 5th Gen Z/28 that outperforms the Boss 302 LS in every category? Over $50K?
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:20 AM   #2003
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How much are people be willing to pay for a 5th Gen Z/28 that outperforms the Boss 302 LS in every category? Over $50K?
I just don't see how the Z/28 could end up costing $50k plus. The 1LE is $37 so where does the extra $13k come from?
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:41 AM   #2004
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I just don't see how the Z/28 could end up costing $50k plus. The 1LE is $37 so where does the extra $13k come from?
It would be a miracle to have a Z/28 with an LS9 in the 5th Gen. You also could be stepping on the ZL1's toes. More than likely it will have either the new Gen V engine or an LS7 and reasonably optioned-out price at 48K MSRP 46K invoice.
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Old 09-01-2012, 03:01 PM   #2005
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We don't care about stepping on toes. Build a Z/28 my way and we'll have a NA Z/28 that out runs the BOSS, GT500 and ZL1 on a road course.
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:22 PM   #2006
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:44 PM   #2007
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It would be a miracle to have a Z/28 with an LS9 in the 5th Gen. You also could be stepping on the ZL1's toes. More than likely it will have either the new Gen V engine or an LS7 and reasonably optioned-out price at 48K MSRP 46K invoice.
There's no way the Z/28 is getting the LS9. That would make it more powerful than the almighty ZL1.
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:18 PM   #2008
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Uhhhh yeah, maybe a performance upgrade for the ZL1 would be the LS9..who thinks this stuff up? It's a given, all along the hopefuls, the Z/28 has to be naturally aspirated, and to answer the question Bhobbs, the 13k difference comes into play because everyone keeps whining that they want the LS7 in the car instead of holding GM down and making them give us an engine with some tech in it and R&D with 480-500 hp without needing 7.0 liters to do it in!!
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:51 PM   #2009
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Uhhhh yeah, maybe a performance upgrade for the ZL1 would be the LS9..who thinks this stuff up? It's a given, all along the hopefuls, the Z/28 has to be naturally aspirated, and to answer the question Bhobbs, the 13k difference comes into play because everyone keeps whining that they want the LS7 in the car instead of holding GM down and making them give us an engine with some tech in it and R&D with 480-500 hp without needing 7.0 liters to do it in!!
One problem is we can't force GM to do anything, and they have shown no inclination to put together a 'one off" type engine for anything other than the LS9 for the ZR1. So I don't expect to see a new engine for the Z/28 in the 5th gen and it's too early to say what they may or may not do for the 6th gen. I'd love to see them do a new Z/28 engine for the 5th gen, expecting it to happen is an entirely different matter.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:23 PM   #2010
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It doesn't have to be a "one off" they can use the motor in other applications, let's say the new "SS" sedan that is right around the corner..just detuned..I really want them to debut a new engine in a car that has really in my opinion put GM back on the map. They are doing many great things to the rest of their line-up and still seems like the Camaro is just getting the left overs
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:59 PM   #2011
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I for one do not want an LS9 and the associated extra weight and heat. It works well in the Vette because of the designed in balance of the platform and with the light weight Vette doesn't have to work as hard. I want Normally Aspirated power.
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:13 PM   #2012
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Uhhhh yeah, maybe a performance upgrade for the ZL1 would be the LS9..who thinks this stuff up? It's a given, all along the hopefuls, the Z/28 has to be naturally aspirated, and to answer the question Bhobbs, the 13k difference comes into play because everyone keeps whining that they want the LS7 in the car instead of holding GM down and making them give us an engine with some tech in it and R&D with 480-500 hp without needing 7.0 liters to do it in!!
How is it whining to use what is currently available? How are we going to force GM to build something they have no intention to build?
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:17 PM   #2013
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I for one do not want an LS9 and the associated extra weight and heat. It works well in the Vette because of the designed in balance of the platform and with the light weight Vette doesn't have to work as hard. I want Normally Aspirated power.
Besides from what I have read, the Z06/Z07 Carbon is almost as fast as the ZR1 around a track.
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:42 AM   #2014
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the 13k difference comes into play because everyone keeps whining that they want the LS7 in the car instead of holding GM down and making them give us an engine with some tech in it and R&D with 480-500 hp without needing 7.0 liters to do it in!!
With an "engine with some tech in it" you'd likely be looking at more than a $13k premium. At least initially, and I don't see a high-tech V8 figuring into the mainstream products. Never mind that if the tech is rushed, you're more likely to encounter difficulties with early production. The #8 cylinder issues in the 5.0 DOHC Ford motors immediately comes to mind here.

On the one hand, I see the technical advantages of a smaller displacement DOHC engine. But I also see physical bulk, engine CG, and probably engine weight advantages being with the pushrod arrangement, and I don't think those can be ignored either.


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Old 09-02-2012, 02:25 PM   #2015
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With an "engine with some tech in it" you'd likely be looking at more than a $13k premium. At least initially, and I don't see a high-tech V8 figuring into the mainstream products. Never mind that if the tech is rushed, you're more likely to encounter difficulties with early production. The #8 cylinder issues in the 5.0 DOHC Ford motors immediately comes to mind here.

On the one hand, I see the technical advantages of a smaller displacement DOHC engine. But I also see physical bulk, engine CG, and probably engine weight advantages being with the pushrod arrangement, and I don't think those can be ignored either.


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I pretty much agree with what you said and I do not expect to see a DOHC V-8 or other exotic design in the GM engine lineup any time soon.
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:03 PM   #2016
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News Flash!

The Gen-5 SBC aka "LT1" is NOT OHC...it is, in fact, a not-so-far departure from the current LS family without a "raised cam". In fact, with 1-point higher CR combined with DI and slightly canted valves, expect maybe a 10% hp increase...maybe less...in n/a 6.2L form...

So, for Camaro comrades, is it likely to see the light of day in a "special" Gen-5 Camaro (MY '14), or will it be held as Zee engine of choice in Gen-6 (Alpha-based) versions? Why?

Discuss...
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:45 PM   #2017
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"Not-so-far departure from the current LS family" and a smallish HP increase might not rule out variable valve timing , , ,


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Old 09-02-2012, 06:24 PM   #2018
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News Flash!

The Gen-5 SBC aka "LT1" is NOT OHC...it is, in fact, a not-so-far departure from the current LS family without a "raised cam". In fact, with 1-point higher CR combined with DI and slightly canted valves, expect maybe a 10% hp increase...maybe less...in n/a 6.2L form...

So, for Camaro comrades, is it likely to see the light of day in a "special" Gen-5 Camaro (MY '14), or will it be held as Zee engine of choice in Gen-6 (Alpha-based) versions? Why?

Discuss...
Wow... So less than a 10% HP gain? What's the point of all that work? Will there be much of a MPG bump?
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:28 PM   #2019
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
News Flash!

The Gen-5 SBC aka "LT1" is NOT OHC...it is, in fact, a not-so-far departure from the current LS family without a "raised cam". In fact, with 1-point higher CR combined with DI and slightly canted valves, expect maybe a 10% hp increase...maybe less...in n/a 6.2L form...

So, for Camaro comrades, is it likely to see the light of day in a "special" Gen-5 Camaro (MY '14), or will it be held as Zee engine of choice in Gen-6 (Alpha-based) versions? Why?

Discuss...
Yes I knew that, I was simply commenting on whether or not Chevy was likely to do a "one-off" or exotic design for a Z/28. I would not rule out the possibility of seeing the LT1 in a 5th gen Camaro once it has been introduced in the Vette, I think we'll ceratinly see it in the 6th gen Camaro.
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:40 PM   #2020
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Thinking out loud....

The costs of a tweaked motor, aside from something like a revised air intake, exhaust revision or a slightly more aggressive cal delivering 10 to 20 HP, or an exotic motor for a 18 month production run are mostly likely the end of that discussion before it starts. I may be wrong, but the only ready to go motor for a Z/28 is the LS7. It is our last best hope.

The C7 2014 Vette with the 5.5 DI debuts sometime in the second half of 2013. I believe they will let the C7 run with the performance version of the DI technology for at least the first model year pushing the debut of a 2015 DI Camaro into late 2014. That would have a DI powered Z/28 available for maybe 8 months?

An LS7 powered Z/28 could be released in the second quarter of 2013 when the Corvette will no longer be using it. That gives the Z/28 a solid 18 month run to the launch of the 2016 Camaro and allows LS7 production run a year longer. With all the tooling and and development costs depreciated out, LS7 production for a production car should be profitable at a reasonable cost. The sticking points are EPA and CAFE.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:14 PM   #2021
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We don't care about stepping on toes. Build a Z/28 my way and we'll have a NA Z/28 that out runs the BOSS, GT500 and ZL1 on a road course.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:05 PM   #2022
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Thinking out loud....

The costs of a tweaked motor, aside from something like a revised air intake, exhaust revision or a slightly more aggressive cal delivering 10 to 20 HP, or an exotic motor for a 18 month production run are mostly likely the end of that discussion before it starts. I may be wrong, but the only ready to go motor for a Z/28 is the LS7. It is our last best hope.

The C7 2014 Vette with the 5.5 DI debuts sometime in the second half of 2013. I believe they will let the C7 run with the performance version of the DI technology for at least the first model year pushing the debut of a 2015 DI Camaro into late 2014. That would have a DI powered Z/28 available for maybe 8 months?

An LS7 powered Z/28 could be released in the second quarter of 2013 when the Corvette will no longer be using it. That gives the Z/28 a solid 18 month run to the launch of the 2016 Camaro and allows LS7 production run a year longer. With all the tooling and and development costs depreciated out, LS7 production for a production car should be profitable at a reasonable cost. The sticking points are EPA and CAFE.
To me the Z28/LS7 just makes a great business case.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:33 PM   #2023
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Wow... So less than a 10% HP gain? What's the point of all that work? Will there be much of a MPG bump?
To me it's the application that's important. They could even reduce horsepower if it helped MPG improve signifigantly. It would have to be more of an increase than what we see with the L99. Horsepower increase is great for Z28 but not really needed in an SS, if that's going to be the volume performance model for the sixth gen.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:54 PM   #2024
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To me it's the application that's important. They could even reduce horsepower if it helped MPG improve signifigantly. It would have to be more of an increase than what we see with the L99. Horsepower increase is great for Z28 but not really needed in an SS, if that's going to be the volume performance model for the sixth gen.
Honestly I think the SS should get dropped for the 6th gen. Have a base V8 with a N/A small displacement, Z/28 with a N/A larger displacement and ZL1 with S/C large displacement. Calling the base V8 the SS was just as bad as calling it the Z/28.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:06 PM   #2025
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Honestly I think the SS should get dropped for the 6th gen. Have a base V8 with a N/A small displacement, Z/28 with a N/A larger displacement and ZL1 with S/C large displacement. Calling the base V8 the SS was just as bad as calling it the Z/28.
The V6 is more than comparable with the base 1Gen Camaro. Naming the V8 an SS makes sense. And now you can add a 1LE package to it making it a very very capable car. V6, SS, SS/1LE, Z28 & ZL1 perfect upgradeability for the Camaro enthusiast!
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