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Old 09-03-2012, 02:43 PM   #1
Rabamaro
 
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Subframe inserts

I was looking at getting some polyurethane subframe inserts and was wondering if there worth getting, or am I wasting my money? My main goal is to cut down on wheel hop, but I can't swing the $600 cost for the Pfadt replacement bushings. Thanks!
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:27 PM   #2
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To get rid of wheel hop....get a set of Trailing Arms. After that I would do the cradle bushing inserts and I'll tell you from first hand experience you'll feel those.

Personally, I would recommend the Pedders Stage 1 street kit. It might be called something else now but it's basically the cradle bushing inserts and radius rod inserts.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:33 PM   #3
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Inserts are a good option for the typical bolt on car. Like caverman mentioned you will definitely feel them. In between inserts and the solid mounts you mentioned are poly full bushing replacements. They run a couple hundred dollars.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:01 PM   #4
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I've already got the trailing arms. Where can I get the full bushing replacements?
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:04 PM   #5
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I've already got the trailing arms. Where can I get the full bushing replacements?
From Apex. BMR makes them. We can't post links in technical discussion but I'll PM one to you.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:31 PM   #6
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Thanks chase. Have any camaro 5 discounts? Also, this is my daily driver and only go to the track 5-6 times a year. Do I really need the full replacements? Is there any loss in ride quality? Thanks for the help!
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:18 PM   #7
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Thanks chase. Have any camaro 5 discounts? Also, this is my daily driver and only go to the track 5-6 times a year. Do I really need the full replacements? Is there any loss in ride quality? Thanks for the help!
They will not effect ride quality. You can go full solid on the sub frame on a daily driver with almost zero degradation.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabamaro View Post
I've already got the trailing arms. Where can I get the full bushing replacements?
Pedders makes great bushings as well. BMR will be cheaper though.

Personally, I think you could get by just fine with the Pedders inserts. They are rated to 500 rwhp. Alot cheaper and easier to install than a full bushing.

If you go BMR then I would probably go full bushing. I personally don't like the BMR/Energy Suspension style of insert. Complete PITA to install IMO and I couldn't get them to go in right. You pretty much have to drop the whole craddle to get them in straight. I switch to Pedders and they were a much easier install. I will say that I could feel both inserts but I definately like Pedders version better.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:46 PM   #9
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This is definitely one of those mods that you get what you pay for. We would recommend starting with Trailing Arms/Toe Rods, and then moving up to Solid Subframe Mounts to be done with it. This can become an even bigger pain in the neck if you find that you still need more performance of a solid mount after having gone through the process of swapping out to a polyurethane replacement.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:59 PM   #10
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Thanks chase. Have any camaro 5 discounts? Also, this is my daily driver and only go to the track 5-6 times a year. Do I really need the full replacements? Is there any loss in ride quality? Thanks for the help!
Like Apex Chase said you will see no deterioration in ride quality when going with a poly-urethane rear cradle replacement bushings like our BMR "pro" rear cradle bushings. Even when using our solid delrin "race" rear cradle replacement bushings we notice no change in ride quality so you can definitely get away with having a stock-like ride with either of our full rear cradle bushings. With your power level I would personally use a poly-urethane cradle bushing rather than just the inserts since it will help control the rear cradle much better than the inserts which will lead to better overall performance and less wheel hop.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:44 PM   #11
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I run the Pfadt solid subframe bushings along with all the other Pfadt goodies in my car. Ride quality has not changed with the solid subframe bushings. I love my solid bushings, and yes they are pricey, but you get what you pay for (4 fabricated pieces of 6061 is not cheap!). A bit more cost effective solution for you may be the inserts, but as Kyle/BMR also stated, they have a polyurethane full bushing for this application. Whichever company you do choose, I would go with the full bushing rather than an insert, do it once and move on to your next mod!

If you do not have anything in the rear suspension as-is, I would recommend at least the lower control arm bushing set, trailing arm bushings and toe rod bushings as a base to start with.

On my car the best 60' on the car was a 1.41, average 60' is mid 1.4x... When the rear bushings/subframe & control arms were factory, I was cutting consistent 1.6x's launching on low throttle because the car would just have so much negative camber out of the hole that it would blow the tires loose. Adding in the control arm bushing set really helped this, and the subframe bushings just culminated the combination. Now its off the transbrake every launch as long as the track is there

We can help you out on BMR or Pfadt items so let me know if you have any questions feel free to shoot me a PM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PfadtRacing View Post
This is definitely one of those mods that you get what you pay for. We would recommend starting with Trailing Arms/Toe Rods, and then moving up to Solid Subframe Mounts to be done with it. This can become an even bigger pain in the neck if you find that you still need more performance of a solid mount after having gone through the process of swapping out to a polyurethane replacement.
I agree with this its not a fun job getting the bushings out if you do it your self. The ride quality has not change from the day i picked the car up, the only difference is traction, put your foot in it and the car just hooks and goes. Love the pfadt products.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:26 PM   #13
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In your sig you show 464 RWHP. Is that about where you plan to stay or do you have plans for higher RWHP?
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:07 PM   #14
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In your sig you show 464 RWHP. Is that about where you plan to stay or do you have plans for higher RWHP?
I'm at 484 and will most likely stay around there. I may add a ported IM if Tracy's test on Birms cammed car shows good results.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:19 PM   #15
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I'm at 484 and will most likely stay around there. I may add a ported IM if Tracy's test on Birms cammed car shows good results.
Got it.

Our EP1200 inserts will do the job for you with your in place UMI arms. There is no guarantee that 100% of you wheel hop will disappear as alignment, tires, PSI and driving style are major contributors. Get your rear aligned to as little negative camber as possible. A bit on the positive side is great for the strip. Your toe should be IN o.10 per wheel with a total toe IN of 0.20. You'll be able to settle in on the right PSI very quickly with the alignment and inserts in place.

I will guarantee that if you are not 100% satisfied with your Pedders EP1200 inserts that I will personally refund your money
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