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Old 09-04-2012, 09:07 AM   #1
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1LE (MM6) Gearing?

I was trying to find a chart comparing the differences between the 1LE (MM6) transmission gearing (1st thru 6th) compared to the regular SS (M10?) gearing. I know I've seen it somewhere on here before, but I can't find it now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also, if I may ask an uninformed ignorant question. Let's say hypothetically, if both cars (SS and 1LE) had a 3.91 final rear end ratio, would there be any noticeable difference in "seat-of-the-pants" torque feel because of the different transmission gearing? I remember looking at those gear ratios before and thinking to myself that the 3.91's would actually feel more "torquey" (be more effective) in the SS. But maybe I have that backwards. Can someone confirm, deny, or explain? I'm confusing myself now!!!
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:10 AM   #2
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mm6 is in the z06, same gearing. you can look it up and compare overll ratio in each gear by multiplying.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:21 PM   #3
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MM63.911st Gear Ratio2.66410.422nd Gear Ratio1.7836.973rd Gear Ratio1.3025.094th Gear Ratio13.915th Gear Ratio0.7412.906th Gear Ratio0.5021.96M103.453.911st Gear Ratio3.0110.3811.772nd Gear Ratio2.077.148.093rd Gear Ratio1.434.935.594th Gear Ratio13.453.915th Gear Ratio0.842.903.286th Gear Ratio0.571.972.23
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by SP33D View Post
I was trying to find a chart comparing the differences between the 1LE (MM6) transmission gearing (1st thru 6th) compared to the regular SS (M10?) gearing. I know I've seen it somewhere on here before, but I can't find it now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

In the Official 1LE thread.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:26 PM   #5
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Sorry i pasted from an excel sheet i have. that didn't work..
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:49 PM   #6
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MM6 w/ 3.91
1st gear ratio: 2.66 10.42
2nd gear ratio: 1.78 6.97
3rd gear ratio: 1.30 5.09
4th gear ratio: 1.00 3.91
5th gear ratio: 0.74 2.90
6th gear ratio: 0.50 1.96

M10 w/ 3.45 w/ 3.91
1st gear ratio: 3.01 10.38 11.77
2nd gear ratio: 2.07 7.14 8.09
3rd gear ratio: 1.43 4.93 5.59
4th gear ratio: 1.00 3.45 3.91
5th gear ratio: 0.84 2.90 3.28
6th gear ratio: 0.57 1.97 2.23
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:00 PM   #7
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MM6 ratios have been around since 1994 in the LT1 Camaro's if I recall correctly. They carried the same ratios into the production of the TR6060 version of the MM6 RPO.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:20 PM   #8
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One other thing to consider is the torque capacity. From gmpowertrain.com

Both the standard Corvette and the high-performance Z06 use the TR6060 designated as MM6, which is validated to 500 lb-ft of torque, while the TR6060 with the Z51 option features higher ratios and is designated as MZ6. It is validated to 430 lb-ft of torque. The ultra high performance ZR1 uses the TR6060 designated as the MH3, which is validated to 650 lb-ft of torque. The CTSv uses the MG9 version of the TR6060 validated to 560 lb-ft of torque. The Camaro uses the M10 gear set validated to 430 lb-ft of torque
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass View Post
In the Official 1LE thread.
Am I missing it somewhere on the first page, or is it buried somewhere within the other 46 pages???


Quote:
Originally Posted by SP33D View Post
MM6 w/ 3.91
1st gear ratio: 2.66 10.42
2nd gear ratio: 1.78 6.97
3rd gear ratio: 1.30 5.09
4th gear ratio: 1.00 3.91
5th gear ratio: 0.74 2.90
6th gear ratio: 0.50 1.96

M10 w/ 3.45 w/ 3.91
1st gear ratio: 3.01 10.38 11.77
2nd gear ratio: 2.07 7.14 8.09
3rd gear ratio: 1.43 4.93 5.59
4th gear ratio: 1.00 3.45 3.91
5th gear ratio: 0.84 2.90 3.28
6th gear ratio: 0.57 1.97 2.23
Thanks so much for the useful info, this is exactly what I needed. So, does this tell me that the 3.91 gears have more torque in the MM6 transmission or the M10 transmission??? I still can't seem to understand the theory behind the numbers. Like on the MM6 above, for 1st gear, isn't it, for every one turn of the driveshaft, the rear wheels turn 10.42 times?? Or is that backwards???


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One other thing to consider is the torque capacity. From gmpowertrain.com

Both the standard Corvette and the high-performance Z06 use the TR6060 designated as MM6, which is validated to 500 lb-ft of torque, while the TR6060 with the Z51 option features higher ratios and is designated as MZ6. It is validated to 430 lb-ft of torque. The ultra high performance ZR1 uses the TR6060 designated as the MH3, which is validated to 650 lb-ft of torque. The CTSv uses the MG9 version of the TR6060 validated to 560 lb-ft of torque. The Camaro uses the M10 gear set validated to 430 lb-ft of torque
Does this mean that our regular ol' M10 transmissions could start breaking stuff at around 430 ft-lbs. of torque???
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Last edited by blazzin1; 09-04-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:57 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by blazzin1 View Post
Does this mean that our regular ol' M10 transmissions could start breaking stuff at around 430 ft-lbs. of torque???
I'm pretty sure the GM engineers are being conservative, but it is up to the consumer to take a chance. My 98 Camaro SS trans was only rated up to 400 lb/ft torque, but it handled well pass 450 when I upgraded it. And never had a problem, even with a 3000 stall torque converter. But then again, that was just an auto trans. Not sure about manual trans.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:07 PM   #11
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I was going to post with the same question so thanks for dealing with this for me.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:19 PM   #12
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I should've said OEM rated at 400 lb/ft, which we all know they use engine crank. My torque was at the wheels. So you're looking at above 500 crank torque.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Like on the MM6 above, for 1st gear, isn't it, for every one turn of the driveshaft, the rear wheels turn 10.42 times?? Or is that backwards???
10.42 engine revolutions for every wheel revolution.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SP33D View Post
MM6 w/ 3.91
1st gear ratio: 2.66 10.42
2nd gear ratio: 1.78 6.97
3rd gear ratio: 1.30 5.09
4th gear ratio: 1.00 3.91
5th gear ratio: 0.74 2.90
6th gear ratio: 0.50 1.96

M10 w/ 3.45 w/ 3.91
1st gear ratio: 3.01 10.38 11.77
2nd gear ratio: 2.07 7.14 8.09
3rd gear ratio: 1.43 4.93 5.59
4th gear ratio: 1.00 3.45 3.91
5th gear ratio: 0.84 2.90 3.28
6th gear ratio: 0.57 1.97 2.23
hmmm...it looks like the main reason they choose to use the MN6 was due to the upgraded strength for track use, and since the gear ratios are "longer", they needed to use the 3.91 rear gear to bring performance level back close to the SS. The ratios are pretty close between the 1le and the SS with the only major difference being 3rd gear to 4th gear...which just so happens to be where the SS falls flat on its face. I am thinking a 4.11 with the MN6 would be close to the 3.91 with the M10
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:37 PM   #15
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Keep in mind the rear tire on a 1LE is an inch shorter than the SS. This will increase RPMs per MPH.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:24 PM   #16
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Keep in mind the rear tire on a 1LE is an inch shorter than the SS. This will increase RPMs per MPH.
I think it's 27.9" vs. 28.6". Shorter yes, but not quite an inch. I run 285/35 Pilots and they are 27.9" too. The shorter tires make the car feel quicker.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
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10.42 engine revolutions for every wheel revolution.
Thanks for the clarification, I did have my thinking backwards. I'm still not sure in my head how the higher number of engine revolutions translates into more torque, but I'll go with it. Wouldn't be the first time I didn't quite understand how something works!!!!
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:23 PM   #18
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Like on the MM6 above, for 1st gear, isn't it, for every one turn of the driveshaft, the rear wheels turn 10.42 times?? Or is that backwards???
Backwards, 2.66 turns of the crank is 1 turn of the drive shaft, and then 3.91 turns of the driveshaft is 1 turn of the tires. 2.66 * 3.91 = ~10.42 turns of the crankshaft per rotation of the tires in first gear.

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I'm pretty sure the GM engineers are being conservative, but it is up to the consumer to take a chance. My 98 Camaro SS trans was only rated up to 400 lb/ft torque, but it handled well pass 450 when I upgraded it. And never had a problem, even with a 3000 stall torque converter. But then again, that was just an auto trans. Not sure about manual trans.
I believe all 94-2002 MM6 T56's are rated at 450 ft*lbs, not 400...but yes you're right, people put more through them a lot. The only significant difference in 94-97 and 98-2002 F-Body T56's was the input shaft/front plate/bellhousing/slave cylinder change for 98...the 2 1993 T56's in the F-body were rated to lower torque because of first gear.

A LOT of the torque rating of the trans has to do with 1st gear. The "shorter" first gear is, the more it multiplies the torque that the main shaft see's, and the more it's able to break it...after that, the next culprit is the main shaft diameter...the strongest T56's have larger diameter output ends of the main shafts than the lower rated T56's...the strongest way to build one with OEM parts for example is an MM6 gear set from a 2006/2007 ZO6, and an SSR 32 spline main shaft. (takes some machining to cobble together)
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I believe all 94-2002 MM6 T56's are rated at 450 ft*lbs, not 400...but yes you're right, people put more through them a lot. The only significant difference in 94-97 and 98-2002 F-Body T56's was the input shaft/front plate/bellhousing/slave cylinder change for 98...the 2 1993 T56's in the F-body were rated to lower torque because of first gear.

A LOT of the torque rating of the trans has to do with 1st gear. The "shorter" first gear is, the more it multiplies the torque that the main shaft see's, and the more it's able to break it...after that, the next culprit is the main shaft diameter...the strongest T56's have larger diameter output ends of the main shafts than the lower rated T56's...the strongest way to build one with OEM parts for example is an MM6 gear set from a 2006/2007 ZO6, and an SSR 32 spline main shaft. (takes some machining to cobble together)
Thanks...that was explained very well.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SP33D View Post
MM6 w/ 3.91
1st gear ratio: 2.66 10.42
2nd gear ratio: 1.78 6.97
3rd gear ratio: 1.30 5.09
4th gear ratio: 1.00 3.91
5th gear ratio: 0.74 2.90
6th gear ratio: 0.50 1.96

M10 w/ 3.45 w/ 3.91
1st gear ratio: 3.01 10.38 11.77
2nd gear ratio: 2.07 7.14 8.09
3rd gear ratio: 1.43 4.93 5.59
4th gear ratio: 1.00 3.45 3.91
5th gear ratio: 0.84 2.90 3.28
6th gear ratio: 0.57 1.97 2.23

The key diference for road racing is the drop in RPM on each shift:

Assuming you shift at 6400 rpm the motor rpm will drop to these RPM's

MM6 w/3.91

1-2 shift rpm drops to 4,280
2-3 shift rpm drops to 4,673
3-4 shift rpm drops to 4,916

MM10 w/ 3.91

1-2 shift rpm drops to 4,398
2-3 shift rpm drops to 4,422
3-4 shift rpm drops to 4,476

The MM6 1LE trans keeps the motor in the upper rpm sweet spot between about 45 mph and 120 mph, but sacrafices some performance out of the hole in 1st gear (assuming full traction). Since 1/4 mile ET's are made in the first 60 feet, the MM10 is probably a faster drag race trans, assuming full traction.

Last edited by Cuda7050; 09-06-2012 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:53 PM   #21
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By max speed in each gear:

Camaro SS:

1st: 54 mph
2nd: 79 mph
3rd: 114 mph
4th: 163 mph
5th: 194 mph
6th: 287 mph

Camaro 1LE:

1st: 53 mph
2nd: 79 mph
3rd: 108mph
4th: 140 mph
5th: 189 mph
6th: 280 mph
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazzin1 View Post
Am I missing it somewhere on the first page, or is it buried somewhere within the other 46 pages???

Does this mean that our regular ol' M10 transmissions could start breaking stuff at around 430 ft-lbs. of torque???
You'll burn clutch discs and pressure plates before you hurt the transmission. Unless you've got over 550 lb-ft of torque and going to put on a set of drag radials for regular weekend fun, you're good to go.

If you're gonna drag race with that kind of power, the clutch and half-shafts need upgrading before the tranny. You can't break a transmission or other driveline parts with a slipping clutch.

Go out and have fun.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda7050 View Post
The key diference for road racing is the drop in RPM on each shift:

Assuming you shift at 6400 rpm the motor rpm will drop to these RPM's

MM6 w/3.91

1-2 shift rpm drops to 4,280
2-3 shift rpm drops to 4,673
3-4 shift rpm drops to 4,916

MM10 w/ 3.91

1-2 shift rpm drops to 4,398
2-3 shift rpm drops to 4,422
3-4 shift rpm drops to 4,476

The MM6 1LE trans keeps the motor in the upper rpm sweet spot between about 45 mph and 120 mph, but sacrafices some performance out of the hole in 1st gear (assuming full traction). Since 1/4 mile ET's are made in the first 60 feet, the MM10 is probably a faster drag race trans, assuming full traction.
Pure race cars in NHRA stock and super stock leave HARD and DO make their low ETs in the first 60'. Hence you get a and b class stock cars running high 10s - low 11s but only at 112 mph.

Assuming you're running drag radials or slicks. BIG difference with everyday drive tires in the first 60.

That doesn't count with turbo cars. The turbo doesn't start twisting and makin' bacon until AFTER 60 ft. That's why the 6 and 7 second small tire (10") cars are usually turbocharged.
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