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Old 09-17-2012, 03:00 PM   #26
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very subjective article no real concrete support on each vehicles performance. I could care less on what vehicle felt better, its all about performance numbers. At least the ZL1 driver will be comfortable when they are beat by m3's & GT500's.
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:39 PM   #27
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very subjective article no real concrete support on each vehicles performance. I could care less on what vehicle felt better, its all about performance numbers. At least the ZL1 driver will be comfortable when they are beat by m3's & GT500's.
ZL1 beat by GT500's yes.. m3's? Not a chance..
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:03 PM   #28
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Two great car's Motor city lives on!!!
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:04 PM   #29
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ZL1 beat by GT500's yes.. m3's? Not a chance..
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:17 PM   #30
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Let's not overlook this sweet little quote, "Neither is a pure driver’s car, in any form (though the Boss 302 comes very close, we’ll admit)"

Insert smug grin here.
Not this driver. Needs more guts. I'll stick with the ZL1 or GT500. Sorry.
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:24 PM   #31
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But I'd like to know what they're comparing with when they say "driver's car". Do they mean, like the M3 that a base Mustang GT beat in Motortrend's comparo? Or the Mercedes AMG that doesn't come close to the ZL1's 'Ring time?

I'd have to guess "Caterham 7" with whatever 200-ish HP engine they're using these days.

No, it's nowhere near as all-around useful as either of the ponycars in question here, but utility isn't the point of a pure "driver's car".


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Old 09-17-2012, 04:50 PM   #32
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90% of the guys who buy these two cars are parking lot chest thumpers so the GT500 wins that hands down.

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Old 09-17-2012, 06:04 PM   #33
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I'm a ZL1 kinda guy, but the GT500 is hotness no doubt.

Oh, and that ZL1 picture.

Right click > Set as background
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:10 PM   #34
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ZL1 beat by GT500's yes.. m3's? Not a chance..
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:48 PM   #35
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Then if it is close performance wise ,Then the winner is the Camaro tiebreaker goes to looks and the Mustang does not even come close , The Camaro is way cooler/sexier/headturner/and complament getter. They cant beat the looks no matter what they put in between the legs.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:49 PM   #36
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I think what's generally considered a "drivers car" is something with precise steering that gives great feedback; balanced neutral handling with precise turn-in on corners where the car just goes where you point it without understeer or oversteer, yet either of those conditions can be induced with throttle control; great seat-of-the-pants feel as to what the car is doing while cornering; quick crisp throttle response and control; great brakes that give you exactly what you want in direct proportion to how hard you push the pedal; great easy-to-read instrumentation that gives you exactly the information you need with just a quick glance; a smooth, short-throw, solid-position-in-each-gear shifter for the transmission; superb gearing and ratios between the trans and diff so that you aren't over-geared or under-geared; just the right amount of exhaust note, volume and sound feedback from the mechanicals and tires (not too quiet); great seats that comfortably hold you in place but aren't too soft so you can still feel what the car's doing.

Those are just some of the things that come to mind. As you can see, not an easy list to check off for a car builder but if the Camaro team does the Z/28 right, it will be that champion drivers car driving enthusiasts have dreamed of.
Great description!
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:58 PM   #37
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very subjective article no real concrete support on each vehicles performance. I could care less on what vehicle felt better, its all about performance numbers. At least the ZL1 driver will be comfortable when they are beat by m3's & GT500's.
"could care less...what vehicle felt better"

That is a very very strange comment.

"it's all about performance numbers"

I guess your into dyno-queens.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:26 PM   #38
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Great description!
The Sion FRS/Subaru BRZ are both considered to be great driving cars with good driving dynamics and everything being in proportion (performance wise).
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:47 PM   #39
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Skip to the second car.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:51 PM   #40
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Skip to the second car.
Wow! Thought MF loved the GT500...apparently NOT!
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:01 PM   #41
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I think what's generally considered a "drivers car" is something with precise steering that gives great feedback; balanced neutral handling with precise turn-in on corners where the car just goes where you point it without understeer or oversteer, yet either of those conditions can be induced with throttle control; great seat-of-the-pants feel as to what the car is doing while cornering; quick crisp throttle response and control; great brakes that give you exactly what you want in direct proportion to how hard you push the pedal; great easy-to-read instrumentation that gives you exactly the information you need with just a quick glance; a smooth, short-throw, solid-position-in-each-gear shifter for the transmission; superb gearing and ratios between the trans and diff so that you aren't over-geared or under-geared; just the right amount of exhaust note, volume and sound feedback from the mechanicals and tires (not too quiet); great seats that comfortably hold you in place but aren't too soft so you can still feel what the car's doing.
Which is why Porsches cost so damn much!!!!
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:05 PM   #42
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I like the term "brutally fast cars", especially when it comes to American muscle cars. Good reading.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:08 PM   #43
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Skip to the second car.
This makes me want a GT500 even more. That's what makes me like cars. Being scared is part of the excitement.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:17 PM   #44
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This makes me want a GT500 even more. That's what makes me like cars. Being scared is part of the excitement.
With the Venom GT sure, its scary fast.

With the GT500, its too much engine for the chassis and he states (and so has others) that it doesn't have enough brakes. That isn't scary fast, because you are trying to slow down and can't..... thats just a poorly engineered car.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:01 AM   #45
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With the GT500, its too much engine for the chassis and he states (and so has others) that it doesn't have enough brakes. That isn't scary fast, because you are trying to slow down and can't..... thats just a poorly engineered car.
Many people race GT500s and they swap to race pads and dot4 brake fluid which solves the problem. Does anyone seriously races on a track without race pads anyway?
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:58 AM   #46
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90% of the guys who buy these two cars are parking lot chest thumpers so the GT500 wins that hands down.

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Old 09-18-2012, 07:07 AM   #47
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With the Venom GT sure, its scary fast.

With the GT500, its too much engine for the chassis and he states (and so has others) that it doesn't have enough brakes. That isn't scary fast, because you are trying to slow down and can't..... thats just a poorly engineered car.
There have been many conflicting reports about the brakes on the GT500. It sound like it's a pretty simple fix. Besides I don't know where in the streets that you would ever push that car hard enough to where out the brakes without ending up in jail. I think for whatever reason that guy is full of crap. there are many people that have these cars and do run them at tracks with very little problems. Maybe that skinhead just doesn't know how to drive. That three wheeled car and the first gen Viper are the only two cars on that list that I completely agree with.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:12 AM   #48
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Many people race GT500s and they swap to race pads and dot4 brake fluid which solves the problem. Does anyone seriously races on a track without race pads anyway?

I'm sure there are, I would bet there are people on this site that do just that on the weekend with OEM pads.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:42 AM   #49
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Had a 2010 GT500 and drove it for 2 years. Loved the car but at high speeds when turning or changing lanes the car had a lot of vertical motion. I like excitement as much as the next guy and am always up for a challenge but it was frustrating to have to back off because of this. Lost several races as a result. The car just didn't feel planted above 80 mph with any imperfection on the road surface. Night and day different feeling from the ZL1..
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:48 AM   #50
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Besides I don't know where in the streets that you would ever push that car hard enough to where out the brakes without ending up in jail. I think for whatever reason that guy is full of crap. there are many people that have these cars and do run them at tracks with very little problems. Maybe that skinhead just doesn't know how to drive. That three wheeled car and the first gen Viper are the only two cars on that list that I completely agree with.
I'm inclined to agree with most of that and that the video was all about finding fodder to crack jokes over (like the lame dig at the Viper's side curtains that he's too young to understand). The most consistent theme through the video was too much power - whether that was too much power relative to the chassis or the tires or too much outright being secondary. To me, that says "too much power for skinhead to consistently stay within HIS limits with".

I'd go a little further and suggest that he's been brainwashed into believing that letting the nannies have ultimate override authority over the driver would be a good thing.

If he's so afraid that 600-ish HP in a Shelby Cobra was too much for him to drive it that 11th time or that 662 is too many for the GT500's live axle on a bumpy corner, he shouldn't even be thinking of cracking the whip on all of them. It really is that simple.



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