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Old 07-07-2011, 11:35 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by camaropete View Post
First of all, I want to be clear. I am not on here representing GM. I don't work for GM and I have no affiliation with GM. So please don't make assumptions about me.
I am confused. You have this thread where you offer to escalate warranty issues. From what I understand, the escalation process can only be initiated by a GM employee. So how is it that you can initiate the escalation procedure without being affiliated with GM?

In all honesty, I meant nothing personal by my comment. Hope you didn't take it that way.
[rant] I have very high regards for this site. It is well ran and well funded. This site pretty much sets the bar for similar sites, so the content in these technical forums should be accurate, imo. Instead, we have to put on a pair of waste-high waders before entering to get through all the misinformation and bs. [/rant]
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Old 07-08-2011, 08:59 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by mwt18 View Post
I am confused. You have this thread where you offer to escalate warranty issues. From what I understand, the escalation process can only be initiated by a GM employee. So how is it that you can initiate the escalation procedure without being affiliated with GM?

In all honesty, I meant nothing personal by my comment. Hope you didn't take it that way.
[rant] I have very high regards for this site. It is well ran and well funded. This site pretty much sets the bar for similar sites, so the content in these technical forums should be accurate, imo. Instead, we have to put on a pair of waste-high waders before entering to get through all the misinformation and bs. [/rant]
Don't be confused. I have explained it elsewhere, but maybe not in that escalation thread. I don't work for GM and have no affiliation with GM just as I stated. However, I do have friends at GM who care about customer support and want to see every customer as happy as possible. Early on I was having a discussion with them that some people weren't getting the level of service they felt they deserved. So they offered to escalate problems for me (and for us as a community). They do it because as I said (and despite what some forum members have ranted about) they really want to see every customer satisfied. I can't stress that enough. Just spend a few minutes and talk to some GM employees. PM a few people on here (Number 3, grunt, fbodfather, etc, etc). If you don't get the clear message that these people care, then you just don't get it at all.

Early on in that process I was sending everything up because I too wanted everyone to be happy. However, I realized that some people weren't being honest and truthful and it was leading to a lot of extra, unnecessary work for my friends at GM. So now when I get an escalation I try to put it through some "screening" if you will before I send it up. I don't want to cry wolf so much that the process doesn't work at all. That probably explains why at times I am a bit skeptical and questioning. I have had a taste of what happens in the background and I have seen those who abuse both the warranty process, the customer service process and GM in general. When you witness that first-hand, then you will understand.

Does that part make sense?

So now to your comments on mis-information on here. Welcome to the Internet. I can't speak for the mods so what I am about to say it my own personal opinion and may not be shared by anyone else. First of all, when I post information, I try to go directly to GM (web site, owner's manuals, my friends, etc) before I post information. I try to be as factual as I personally can. If I am not 100% sure, I usually state that. I definitely don't want to make anyone believe anything that isn't true. When I stated what I did above regarding the warranty as I said I pulled that directly from the GM warranty web site.

I will tell you, there are a lot of people out there who don't know what they are talking about, but state it as if they were 100% sure. That's both the great part and the bad part about the Internet and sites like this. If you spend a lot of time on here, you quickly realize who is who. Unfortunately, if you don't it is sometimes hard to tell. But as a community, how do you differentiate? And frankly, I have seen cases where there are people who think they are in the know so to speak, who also appear to be credible sources, but who in particular cases have bad or incomplete information. In those cases, there is almost nothing you can do.

Finally, a closing note on warranty. Unfortunately, it isn't always black and white. For example, just as I pasted below: Competitive driving may affect the vehicle warranty. May affect. That doesn't say it will or it won't. It really depends on a number of factors. Your relationship with your dealer is very, very important in my opinion. I have said it numerous times on here. Don't buy from a place bcause it has the lowest price. Buy from them because you know them. You can trust them. Do you know your salesman's name? Do you know the general manager's name? The owner? The service manager? I know all those at my dealer. I go talk to them when I stop in. I send other customers to them and I give them information. Have a relationship with them. I also ask them before I do things to my car that might affect the warranty. In fact, on one occasion, I asked them to check with the regional support team to see what their opinion was before I did anything.

Now I get it that maybe in all cases that type of relationship isn't possible. My fallback opinion (and I get that it isn't always popular) is if you can't or don't want to pay to fix your car, then don't take the chance on doing anything that could remotely void or affect the warranty. And if you choose to do so, be responsible and man-up to what you did. Again, I get that there are cases where you mod-ed the engine and the door fell off and the dealer said you aren't under warranty. By all means, that should be escalated.

I hope all that makes sense. I didn't start out planning on making a giant post, but there was just a lot to say. And I don't want this to turn into a debate about what GM should and shouldn't fix. I just wanted to give you and others an insight into my thoughts. It's just my two cents...
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:29 AM   #71
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OK Pete a dumb question and not meant to be smart. My car is an earlier Vin , before 25000, and there is a KNOWN issue with the tranny shafts. This is known by all parties involved that GM had some bad shafts due to defective materials.

Early on GM was supposed to contact people, provided lists of affected Tranny's etc..... but from what I know ,no such list exists.

GM says if you mod, you are SOL. Where does this seems like the right thing to do? They know a certain number of tranny's have a problem and it looks like they are crossing their fingers hoping either 1. that the person has modded their car so they will not have to fix it, or 2. or hoping it will not break at all.

I am not a smart man , but I feel it would take GM very little to inspect these shafts, we are only talking about a few in the grand scheme of things, and if the tranny is one that was affected they should fix it BEFORE something breaks maybe resulting in more damage to the car.

I have a system on my car, Launch Control, that I am afraid to use because if it breaks then too bad so sad, all beause I wanted more lope from a Muscle Car. If my tranny wasn't in the range of affected ones it would not be a problem.

I do not race but just would like to see what launch control actually does. Again I am not trying to be a smart -A** , I just think that these cars are so part numbered up that it would be easy for someone to look at the tranny, check the build date and see if it is one of theose tranny's susceptible to tailshaft breakage and fix it.

Thoughts?
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:26 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Dr Jkel View Post
OK Pete a dumb question and not meant to be smart. My car is an earlier Vin , before 25000, and there is a KNOWN issue with the tranny shafts. This is known by all parties involved that GM had some bad shafts due to defective materials.

Early on GM was supposed to contact people, provided lists of affected Tranny's etc..... but from what I know ,no such list exists.

GM says if you mod, you are SOL. Where does this seems like the right thing to do? They know a certain number of tranny's have a problem and it looks like they are crossing their fingers hoping either 1. that the person has modded their car so they will not have to fix it, or 2. or hoping it will not break at all.

I am not a smart man , but I feel it would take GM very little to inspect these shafts, we are only talking about a few in the grand scheme of things, and if the tranny is one that was affected they should fix it BEFORE something breaks maybe resulting in more damage to the car.

I have a system on my car, Launch Control, that I am afraid to use because if it breaks then too bad so sad, all beause I wanted more lope from a Muscle Car. If my tranny wasn't in the range of affected ones it would not be a problem.

I do not race but just would like to see what launch control actually does. Again I am not trying to be a smart -A** , I just think that these cars are so part numbered up that it would be easy for someone to look at the tranny, check the build date and see if it is one of theose tranny's susceptible to tailshaft breakage and fix it.

Thoughts?
This is actually a very valid question. And I don't think you are being a smarta$$ at all. There has definitely been a lot of talk about this particular issue. I have seen lots of things written on here about "a list" and about GM contacting affected owners. I am not aware of any of that. I don't know if those were credible statements, if that is reality within GM or what. In this case, I can't say with any level of certainty or credibility that any such list does or doesn't exist.

I can tell you that my own car is in the same boat as yours. It is a sub 25,000 VINed car. I can tell you that my car was among those that was "held" during the time when the shafts were being looked at. I haven't used the Launch Control on my car yet. I do plan on trying it out a few times before my warranty expires though. I also haven't done any modification to my car so I am not worried about having a problem with any warranty claim.

Have you talked with the service manager at your dealer about it? Have you asked him or her what would happen and what they would do?

Regarding your comment about whether GM should just inspect the trannies, that is where I really take a hard line and in some cases piss people off. If you didn't mod your car, you have nothing to worry about. My opinion is that the "affected" output shafts were/are not seen as a safety issue so no recall was necessary. And anyone who broke the shaft on an unmodded car had it replaced or would have it replaced no questions asked. So why would GM need to do anything else? They are ensuring that any broken shafts on cars with valid warranties are being replaced. What else do you want them to do? Spend thousands of dollars needlessly inspecting cars. What does that do? Do you want them to just automatically replace components on cars who have had serious and significant powertrain modifications? If I was running a company I don't see that as being fiscally responsible. I also don't see it as necessary from a customer service standpoint when people clearly know they are potentially impacting the warranty when they make those modifications.

Please don't take offense to what I am about to type. I don't mean it to be anything personally. I don't think that it is any new news about this shaft issue. In fact, I remember news coming out on it when I was waiting to get my car in May, June, July and August of 2009. And there were members on here who posted very early on about their shafts breaking. So I would pose this question, why on earth would you mod your car knowing that this issue might exist and without first testing it out? I knew of this issue far before I even got my car so I would have certainly tested the Launch Control right away especially if I was planning on making changes to my car.
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:48 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaropete View Post
This is actually a very valid question. And I don't think you are being a smarta$$ at all. There has definitely been a lot of talk about this particular issue. I have seen lots of things written on here about "a list" and about GM contacting affected owners. I am not aware of any of that. I don't know if those were credible statements, if that is reality within GM or what. In this case, I can't say with any level of certainty or credibility that any such list does or doesn't exist.

I can tell you that my own car is in the same boat as yours. It is a sub 25,000 VINed car. I can tell you that my car was among those that was "held" during the time when the shafts were being looked at. I haven't used the Launch Control on my car yet. I do plan on trying it out a few times before my warranty expires though. I also haven't done any modification to my car so I am not worried about having a problem with any warranty claim.

Have you talked with the service manager at your dealer about it? Have you asked him or her what would happen and what they would do?

Regarding your comment about whether GM should just inspect the trannies, that is where I really take a hard line and in some cases piss people off. If you didn't mod your car, you have nothing to worry about. My opinion is that the "affected" output shafts were/are not seen as a safety issue so no recall was necessary. And anyone who broke the shaft on an unmodded car had it replaced or would have it replaced no questions asked. So why would GM need to do anything else? They are ensuring that any broken shafts on cars with valid warranties are being replaced. What else do you want them to do? Spend thousands of dollars needlessly inspecting cars. What does that do? Do you want them to just automatically replace components on cars who have had serious and significant powertrain modifications? If I was running a company I don't see that as being fiscally responsible. I also don't see it as necessary from a customer service standpoint when people clearly know they are potentially impacting the warranty when they make those modifications.

Please don't take offense to what I am about to type. I don't mean it to be anything personally. I don't think that it is any new news about this shaft issue. In fact, I remember news coming out on it when I was waiting to get my car in May, June, July and August of 2009. And there were members on here who posted very early on about their shafts breaking. So I would pose this question, why on earth would you mod your car knowing that this issue might exist and without first testing it out? I knew of this issue far before I even got my car so I would have certainly tested the Launch Control right away especially if I was planning on making changes to my car.
Pete no offense taken at all and I appreciate your comments. Unfortunately I was very new to the Camaro forums when all this started and I really didn't have a clue about this until I saw some threads later on after I got mine.

Now that is my fault for not knowing and I understand that, also another reason I do alot of reading on these type of threads. I also understand that I modded and that too is my responsiblity, just more wanting a pro-active rather than a re-active stance from GM on this.

I am no transmission mechanic but it seems to me that other things may break combined with this failure. IF GM knows of a specific range they could put out a notice to dealerships to be on the look out so to speak and when somone comes in for service or whatever then I am sure that the tranny has some serial number etc.... to easily identify this, sort of a quick look thing, especially while they are waiting for the oil to drain, but again I am no mechanic and have no clue what would be involved.

I think what is confusing is John Fitz came out with a blanket statement early that GM would fix it regardless.

The dealer knows my car is modded and I do not try to hide that fact, Hard to hide the nice sound of the cam, but they also KNOW I don't dog my car either since I have been a customer of theirs for 20+ years, and I feel confident they would do everthing in their power to help IF something happened.

Another member went through this same thing. He went to Arbitration and won his case because of the same reason I stated earlier. Here is the thread.
http://camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54832 the later pages is where you can see that GM lost and will pay to have his fixed.

While I understand that GM will not fix a supposed good part and since it is not a Safety issue they can wait. Just seems to me that IF the part breaks on a KNOWN defective part, even defective on non modded cars with in this range, that it should be taken care of.

I understand that some people will be dishonest and I guess that goes with the territory, but when you have modded cars that are pushing 600-650rwhp and have NO problems because their's is a later build, it is safe to assume that they fixed the initial problem. SO my little 463 should not tear it up either.

I hope that I never have to find out, I have only had one issue with my car and that was the A-pillar clips, mine went to QC as well but from start to delivery it only took 1 month for me to get my car. Mine was delivered July 1, 2009 and the vin is 18261 So really it would be nice to know if mine was before or after. I am thinking it was before but with no clear word from GM it is hard to tell.
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:48 PM   #74
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Pete no offense taken at all and I appreciate your comments. Unfortunately I was very new to the Camaro forums when all this started and I really didn't have a clue about this until I saw some threads later on after I got mine.

Now that is my fault for not knowing and I understand that, also another reason I do alot of reading on these type of threads. I also understand that I modded and that too is my responsiblity, just more wanting a pro-active rather than a re-active stance from GM on this.

I am no transmission mechanic but it seems to me that other things may break combined with this failure. IF GM knows of a specific range they could put out a notice to dealerships to be on the look out so to speak and when somone comes in for service or whatever then I am sure that the tranny has some serial number etc.... to easily identify this, sort of a quick look thing, especially while they are waiting for the oil to drain, but again I am no mechanic and have no clue what would be involved.

I think what is confusing is John Fitz came out with a blanket statement early that GM would fix it regardless.

The dealer knows my car is modded and I do not try to hide that fact, Hard to hide the nice sound of the cam, but they also KNOW I don't dog my car either since I have been a customer of theirs for 20+ years, and I feel confident they would do everthing in their power to help IF something happened.

Another member went through this same thing. He went to Arbitration and won his case because of the same reason I stated earlier. Here is the thread.
http://camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54832 the later pages is where you can see that GM lost and will pay to have his fixed.

While I understand that GM will not fix a supposed good part and since it is not a Safety issue they can wait. Just seems to me that IF the part breaks on a KNOWN defective part, even defective on non modded cars with in this range, that it should be taken care of.

I understand that some people will be dishonest and I guess that goes with the territory, but when you have modded cars that are pushing 600-650rwhp and have NO problems because their's is a later build, it is safe to assume that they fixed the initial problem. SO my little 463 should not tear it up either.

I hope that I never have to find out, I have only had one issue with my car and that was the A-pillar clips, mine went to QC as well but from start to delivery it only took 1 month for me to get my car. Mine was delivered July 1, 2009 and the vin is 18261 So really it would be nice to know if mine was before or after. I am thinking it was before but with no clear word from GM it is hard to tell.
I have seen the thread you mentioned also. And I agree with you that it appears that some people made statements that helped to greatly confuse the matter. I haven't gone back to read through all the details though. No matter what, I hope you have good luck with your car and that you never have to worry about the shaft issue.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:10 PM   #75
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:24 PM   #76
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