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1st & 2nd Generation Camaros 1967-1969 Camaros / 1970-1981 Camaro

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Old 11-27-2012, 12:17 PM   #1
Triton2110
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69 Camaro Restoration Questions?

Hello,
I am new to this sight and had some questions regarding my 69 Camaro Coupe. This is an original complete numbers matching car that is in need of everything.
(1) I decoded it to be a factory 327 powerglide, however the fenders had 350 badging?
(2) Also has the chrome fish gills, wheel well chrome, and rocker chrome. which I did not think came with the coupe package?
(3) What is everyones thoghts on the restotration of this car. restore back to all orginal (frost grren car with green intertior) or Clone it into the Camro of my choice. (RS SS 396 or Z28 RS) If I clone I would keep all the original drive train.

I want to be sure I am doing the right thing when I restore her. This will be a full rotisserie restoration.

I am looking forward to your reponse.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:30 PM   #2
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Check out http://www.camaros.net/forums/. They are more tailored for the 1st gen Camaros and can provide a lot of assistance. I use to hang out there when I had my '67.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:44 PM   #3
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My advice would be to build the car you would enjoy. Production numbers on 1969's were way higher than 67 & 68 due to running into 1970 and the popularity the cars enjoyed. A 327 car that is not a true, unmolested "survivor" will never generate enough money when sold to outweight you enjoying your own investment. I'm all for keeping mods reversible and keeping the original parts but enjoy the car!
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:32 PM   #4
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My advice would be to build the car you would enjoy. Production numbers on 1969's were way higher than 67 & 68 due to running into 1970 and the popularity the cars enjoyed. A 327 car that is not a true, unmolested "survivor" will never generate enough money when sold to outweight you enjoying your own investment. I'm all for keeping mods reversible and keeping the original parts but enjoy the car!


It seems to be an early build '69 if the 327 is original so the "350" badges were added for the effect only. Not original.

The chrome you speak of was part of the style trim group option. It also included stainless steel trim on the roof rail gutters. If you don't currently have them you could add them and make the package complete. The trim tag could tell us if it was originally equipped with the package or not.

I personally see no issue in adding some factory options to an otherwise basic level car that is far from being a survivor. Change the colors if you decide that's what you like. Color is fixable if you or a future owner really wants to put it back to original some day. Try not to make an effort to hide anything or cut anything up and you are good in my book.

That being said, "Clones" or "tribute cars" will offend a good number of enthusiasts. Think about it for a while before you make a decision. It is your car but you can alienate yourself somewhat the more you change it from what it was, into something it isn't.

Just one opinion.

-Mark.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:00 AM   #5
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I have attached a picture of the Cowl tag. I also have the POP, but did not find a build sheet. This is an early model 327 car and I know the 307 came later. Will this make this a rare 327 car?

Yes this car has the stainless steel trim on the roof rail gutters included.

Would it have been possible the 350 badges were put on then?

I appreciate all the imformation I ahve been getting, I find it all very helpful. If I do decide to clone her I will be sure not to hide anything, but would want to look correct. Would also keep the entire drive train, sterring column ect..

Thanks to all!!
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:41 AM   #6
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Frost Green is a killer color and way more unique nowadays than painting it red or orange like everyone else. That color combo would be awesome if done right.

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Old 11-28-2012, 11:02 AM   #7
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Your car was built at the Norwood Ohio plant before the X-codes were being used. They started using the X-codes on the second week of January '69 but your build week is too early. That means we can't tell from the trim tag if it was originally equipped with the style trim group. You might find a crayon marking on the rear bulkhead behind the back seat. If you have the seat out you can look for a crayon marking on the passenger side rear bulkhead of the car. You may see "X-1" written there (or some other letter related to the interior color followed by -1) and that would tell you the style trim option was original to the car.

-Mark.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:31 AM   #8
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Okay will check that out more closely. I have the car completely apart and ready to be preped for new metal ect.... Would the POP tell me anything? I do have that just no build sheet :( Thanks, Ron
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:01 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Stingr69 View Post
Your car was built at the Norwood Ohio plant before the X-codes were being used. They started using the X-codes on the second week of January '69 but your build week is too early. That means we can't tell from the trim tag if it was originally equipped with the style trim group. You might find a crayon marking on the rear bulkhead behind the back seat. If you have the seat out you can look for a crayon marking on the passenger side rear bulkhead of the car. You may see "X-1" written there (or some other letter related to the interior color followed by -1) and that would tell you the style trim option was original to the car.

-Mark.
I found the crayon letters you spoke of LG-1 (light green interior??) Or does this mean something else???
Thanks
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:03 PM   #10
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Check this link out, I used it to decode my 67 before I bought it.

http://www.nastyz28.com/decode.php
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:14 AM   #11
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I found the crayon letters you spoke of LG-1 (light green interior??) Or does this mean something else???
Thanks
Very cool! Yes, you have the Style Trim group option due to the "1" crayon marking and the "LG" part of the crayon marking makes sense due to the rare "721" Light Green standard interior color you have. This would have been an "X-11" Norwood tag code if it had been built later when they started putting the X-codes on the trim tags. Nobody has published any research on this early pre-X code crayon markings but from what I have seen over the years is that these trim codes were marked on the body so the Fisher production line would know what to build. They added the style trim pieces to the rear half of the car and sprayed the exposed interior metal parts light green on the Fisher body side of the assembly line. There are parts of the interior that need to be painted to match the interior color and this seems to be a way to communicate that information for workers at the beginning of the line. Just my opinion from looking at the few examples over the years. Again, this has never been fully researched.

My '69 was originally "79" code Rally Green with the very rare "722" Light Green Comfortweave interior. I doubt if anyone has ever even seen one like that. It is rare for a reason. The car was built in the first week of October '68 so mine is also too early for the X-codes on the trim tag. The crayon marking is "LG7" on the rear bulkhead so it had the light green interior color paint and the "7" decodes to Z/28 without style trim or RS.

My car was already repainted black and the interior had been partially replaced/re-dyed to black before I got it in the late 70's. I didn't love the original color combo much at the time and the pieces are impossible to find in that rare color so it just didn't make sense for me to try to put it back to original when I restored it. I apologise in advance to the Camaro restoration purists out there. The car is now Lemans Blue/White with Houndstooth interior .

Here is a link for you that will keep you busy for DAYS http://www.camaros.org/index.shtml

-Mark.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:08 AM   #12
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If it was me I'd try to keep as original as possible.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:44 PM   #13
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Unless you plan to put it back complete the way it was from the factory then I would make it your own. Any deviation at all (even as much as a stereo or engine block) will not bring the big bucks. People that pay the big money for all orginal want that....all original.

I say make it your own.....which is what I did to mine.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:46 PM   #14
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I thought Forest Green was a Dark Green. My dad has a what we were told was Forest Green Camaro and it's much darker. Luckily it came with black interior. Green interior is

I will also say that even though it's not a common color and it looks good, his car seems to never win against other 1st Gens. Most people/judges still like brighter colors like blues, reds, and oranges. So I go back to my statement of Make It Your Own.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:12 PM   #15
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I thought Forest Green was a Dark Green. My dad has a what we were told was Forest Green Camaro and it's much darker. Luckily it came with black interior. Green interior is

I will also say that even though it's not a common color and it looks good, his car seems to never win against other 1st Gens. Most people/judges still like brighter colors like blues, reds, and oranges. So I go back to my statement of Make It Your Own.
That picture looks like "Fathom Green". There were 3 shades of green paint available for the Camaro in '69. "Frost Green", "Rally Green", and "Fathom Green".

There were a total of 18 different standard colors and some 2-tone options in addition to "Special Paint". LOTS of choices back then.

-Mark.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:22 PM   #16
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Ahh.....your right I was thinking Forest Green but it was probably Fathom Green.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:10 PM   #17
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I found the crayon letters you spoke of LG-1 (light green interior??) Or does this mean something else???
Thanks
Given the comments by Stingr69 regarding the "LG-1" crayon marks, maybe you could post a picture of that mark. I've seen the crayon marks used on the firewall, but not ones used on the interior.

Additionally, you might consider preserving those marks somehow should you decide to repaint the interior while you have it stripped.

Thanks.

Bill
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:06 PM   #18
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Given the comments by Stingr69 regarding the "LG-1" crayon marks, maybe you could post a picture of that mark. I've seen the crayon marks used on the firewall, but not ones used on the interior.

Additionally, you might consider preserving those marks somehow should you decide to repaint the interior while you have it stripped.

Thanks.

Bill
Bill,
Here is a picture what I have on the rear bulkhead of my car in case you are curious.



Triton,
Bill has a good point - The crayon marks on my car were all dried up and very easy to rub off after all the years so be careful with them.

-Mark.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:42 AM   #19
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I say build it so you love it! If it was a rare piece as a SS396/Z28/Copo/Yenko ect. the story would be different.
I had your same car at one time (color and all) and made no plans of keeping it Org.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:54 AM   #20
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Bill,
Here is a picture what I have on the rear bulkhead of my car in case you are curious.



Triton,
Bill has a good point - The crayon marks on my car were all dried up and very easy to rub off after all the years so be careful with them.

-Mark.
Most people just take pictures like this and then reproduce them on the restored car as close as possible to the origonal.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triton2110 View Post
Hello,
I am new to this sight and had some questions regarding my 69 Camaro Coupe. This is an original complete numbers matching car that is in need of everything.
(1) I decoded it to be a factory 327 powerglide, however the fenders had 350 badging?
(2) Also has the chrome fish gills, wheel well chrome, and rocker chrome. which I did not think came with the coupe package?
(3) What is everyones thoghts on the restotration of this car. restore back to all orginal (frost grren car with green intertior) or Clone it into the Camro of my choice. (RS SS 396 or Z28 RS) If I clone I would keep all the original drive train.

I want to be sure I am doing the right thing when I restore her. This will be a full rotisserie restoration.


I am looking forward to your reponse.
If it wasn't a real SS or Z28, but a plain sport coupe a restomod or clone would be your best bet. Some of them if done correctly still bring big bucks. Not as much as a real one but those are few and far between any more. As long as you make sure and not represent it as a origonal car you will be ok to do it. My inclination would to build to look like a 69 SS Hugger Orange with white stripes. this is always been my favorite 69.
Just build it like one you would have bought yourself if you were buying a new 69 today. That way you will be happiest. Remember any parts that are on the car now that you decide not to reuse, Keep and when you sell the car let them go with it. As they say. If it's not on the car its in the trunk.

here is a reference site you could look at.
http://www.oldride.com/library/1969_...et_camaro.html
Good luck with your project!
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:45 PM   #22
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Given that the marks would be covered, it would be cool to preserve them as original. I agree that most people would take the photo and reproduce them, but that's reason enough right there to not do the same.

Mark - thanks for posting your picture up. I've had the entire interior out of my '69 convertible and there are not any original crayon marks inside.

Triton2110 - I specifically bought my '69 knowing that it wasn't a numbers matching car so that I could make modifications to it. You haven't said whether you intend to restore it to sell it, or to keep it. If you're going to keep it and drive it, you might consider upgrading to discs, adding HEI and/or EFI and upgrading in the suspension areas to make it drive much better. If you plan to sell it, clone it to SS or RS/SS standards. Please just be very clear with the buyer that it's a clone.

Either way, a '69 Camaro is a stupid simple car to work on. I've learned a ton over the years, and I still have big plans for mine. Enjoy your car!
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:41 PM   #23
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Most people just take pictures like this and then reproduce them on the restored car as close as possible to the origonal.
I can think of no reason to "clean up" and restore that part of the car. It never shows once assembled and leaving it alone it is a great way to keep original markings "original". It would be difficult to reproduce this one anyway. The crayon marks are so dried out after 40 years that they can wipe off like chalk where exposed. You can't reproduce OLD. The spray glue goes over the top of this mark and I have no idea how anyone could accurately reproduce the marks under the OEM stringy spray glue.

-Mark.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:18 PM   #24
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A month ago i bought a 69 z/28... Hugger orange w/ blk standard int.. Pre x code... I found the code undr seats, it is a true z....the orig 302 was replaces w/ a CE block in 1972. I have that paperwork!!! Orig it was org/ white stripe, no spoilers, no tach, no cosole!!! Thru the years those were added alon w/ blk stripes and grill, chrome trim pkg too. Weve toyed w/ going original. I talked to the otig owner. Who verified authenticity, and sent me paperwork and pics from 1974 ish era!!! He said it has more character now than it did when he had it.... Ill not change a thing now!!!! Do what you want!!!... Id love frost grn/ grn car!!! My buddy has one rottin in the mud the same color w/ RS pkg. Wont part w/ it!!!!
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:53 PM   #25
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Build it the way you like original or not you need lots of this $$$$$$
7 year build on my 68 & the only thing original is the vin #. zz502 full chassisworks frame 4link with a ford 9" rear end
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