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5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions General 5th generation Camaro topics not covered by other subforums.

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Old 12-23-2012, 01:43 PM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy_Stranger View Post
I read that it was reported as 290, but they lied so it would meet class requirements. Can't find the link.
Car manufacturers many times published HP at lower than peak RPM's.

There is lots of good information in the Z28 threads...
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:12 PM   #452
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Originally Posted by Galaxy_Stranger View Post
Not originally.

The Super Sport had a big block and was about 295hp and had upgraded suspension. I guess it was more of a consumer street rod.
A big block was not a requirement for a 1st Gen SS.
I had a 1969 SS with the 350

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy_Stranger View Post
From what I've been able to find on the Etherblagz, the Z/28 package came about for Trans/Am racing and rated 390hp with its own unique suspension.
Yes, the Z/28 came about because of the SCCA Trans Am series.
Back in the early days of racing it was not uncommon for one of the requirements for some classes to have the car made available for purchase by the general public.

The Z/28 was born.

They were limited to engine displacement of 5.0 Liters.
Chevrolet used the 283 crankshaft in the 327 block to come up with the now famous solid lifter 302 engine.
Advertized as having 290 horsepower, it is widely believe this was an underestimated figure.
The factory rated HP of 290 came at 5300 rpm. Actual HP for the high revving 302 was believed to be closer to 360 HP.
You probably will never get two people to agree on any "real" number.

Remember, those 1st Gen Z/28 cars were very close to "race ready" right off the show room floor.
For the '69 Z/28, a 4-wheel disc brake package available.
Only 206 were made though, because it was an expensive option at the time.


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Originally Posted by Galaxy_Stranger View Post
The ZL1 was originally an engine, and then a Camaro model in 1969 that never went into production until recently.
There were 69 COPO Camaro's built and sold in 1969 with the ZL-1 engine
That engine was a $4,000 option, which was almost twice the cost of the base V8 coupe.
Even back in those days, it was a very steep admission price to join the club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy_Stranger View Post
I read that it was reported as 290, but they lied so it would meet class requirements. Can't find the link.
Not sure I would call it lying, perhaps just not telling the whole truth?
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Old 12-23-2012, 03:12 PM   #453
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??????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
They are trying to get the Camaro back to the roots where the Z/28 was the high performance track car. The Z/28 isn't supposed to be more or less powerful than the SS, it's a different car.
? that doesn't make sense its the same car different engine and susp. that doesn't make it different

the z/28 that you guys are looking for sounds like the 1le maybe they should have just called it a z/28 to appease you guys
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:04 PM   #454
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Wonder what styling cues GM would give it... cant imagine every z28 to have a black ho hood AND black roof.
New design hood, front end and wheels exclusive to the Z28.

In a awesome medium blue of course. (not aqua!)
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:13 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by Z/28orSs View Post
? that doesn't make sense its the same car different engine and susp. that doesn't make it different

the z/28 that you guys are looking for sounds like the 1le maybe they should have just called it a z/28 to appease you guys

Some good reading to answer your questions.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149090
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:53 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by Z/28orSs View Post
? that doesn't make sense its the same car different engine and susp. that doesn't make it different

the z/28 that you guys are looking for sounds like the 1le maybe they should have just called it a z/28 to appease you guys
It should have been imo. Historically speaking whenever the Z28 and the SS was offered side by side they was approximately equal in terms of power. The difference was in the suspension and gearing as the Z28 was built more for the track while the SS was more of a 1/4 mile car. Just like the 1LE and SS are for the 5th gen.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:20 PM   #457
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I still think the new LT1 would be a great motor for a Camaro, if they just bumbed it up a little. Not as expensive as the the LS7 and better gas mileage. Now that there are ZL1s in show rooms that they can't sell you should be able to start buying them under sticker which would be just a little more than an LS7/Z28.
Have to admit a twin turbo LS7 would be cool though. Just a quick trip to LPE would do the trick. Just a thought.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:27 PM   #458
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Originally Posted by Mr_Draco View Post
It should have been imo. Historically speaking whenever the Z28 and the SS was offered side by side they was approximately equal in terms of power. The difference was in the suspension and gearing as the Z28 was built more for the track while the SS was more of a 1/4 mile car. Just like the 1LE and SS are for the 5th gen.
The difference between the early Z/28 and SS Camaro came down to mostly bottom end, the Z/28 engine didn't have as much low end grunt and loved to rev. Was rated at 290HP (which was an under rate) and it was stated with some off the shelf mods could produce as much as 475HP.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:28 PM   #459
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Already started a waiting list for an allocation at 3 dealers! And NO, none of them are City Chevrolet! I will not make that mistake again! "PZDD32" A ZL1 order that will live in infamey!!!

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Old 12-23-2012, 06:40 PM   #460
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Originally Posted by Mr_Draco View Post
It should have been imo. Historically speaking whenever the Z28 and the SS was offered side by side they was approximately equal in terms of power. The difference was in the suspension and gearing as the Z28 was built more for the track while the SS was more of a 1/4 mile car. Just like the 1LE and SS are for the 5th gen.
That's why the LS7 fits in perfectly with the Z28. Hi-revving and track capable.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:24 PM   #461
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I have read 90% of this thread over the last few days. If my comment has been said before..sorry

Because there is a COPO with the LS7, maybe thats all there is to it...just because a COPO does not have a VIN does not mean GM doesn't "track" builds in the same way as a VIN car ????

But, yeah baby, bring it on if not

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Old 12-23-2012, 11:10 PM   #462
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My racing friend has a Z06 and he's had nothing but problems with the LS7 motor. During track events, he has to shut down early due to over oil temperatures. He even had his original motor blow on him while on a track. He fought GM tooth and nail and finally got an out of court settlement. Then guess what? GM issues a voluntary recall on the LS7 and the issue it covers is exactly the one that caused his motor to blow in the first place.

I'd wonder how well the LS7 would hold up for those of us who track our cars hard.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:11 AM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy_Stranger View Post
Not originally.

The Super Sport had a big block and was about 295hp and had upgraded suspension. I guess it was more of a consumer street rod.

From what I've been able to find on the Etherblagz, the Z/28 package came about for Trans/Am racing and rated 390hp with its own unique suspension.

The ZL1 was originally an engine, and then a Camaro model in 1969 that never went into production until recently.

I think all signs point to the Z/28 being sub-$50K with some sort of unique suspension configuration. I think they'll definitely fill that price point. The LS7 does make sense, but who knows because that engine production life is ending. Perhaps the Z/28 will be a limited release as people have suggested, making it more rare with the LS7. On the other hand, it does make sense that the Z/28 will have an entirely different engine, what with everything going to smaller turbo and super-charged engines in the future.

Actually, the '67 and '68 Camaros came with 396 cubic inch big blocks rated at 325 hp, 350 hp and 375 hp. The '69 came with these engines plus a 427 cubic inch big block rated at 425 hp. They also came with 327 and 350 small blocks rated at 255 and 295 hp (could be others). The Z/28 uniquely had the 302 rated at 290 hp to conform to SCCA rules.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:16 AM   #464
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Originally Posted by f5journal View Post
I have read 90% of this thread over the last few days. If my comment has been said before..sorry

Because there is a COPO with the LS7, maybe thats all there is to it...just because a COPO does not have a VIN does not mean GM doesn't "track" builds in the same way as a VIN car ????

But, yeah baby, bring it on if not

dw
They track it like a VIN but don't give it a VIN?
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:22 AM   #465
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As sweet as the Ls7 sounds, if it has a 50k plus tag, like some people claim it will, I couldn't see myself getting one...
Not when the king of Camaros, the ZL1 could be had for the same price used with very few miles on it... just wouldn't make sense to me to pay the same amount for a lesser car.
Make sense anyone??
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:36 AM   #466
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The 1968 Camaro came with 5 different engines in the SS model the L48 350, L35 396, L34 396, L78 396, and a L89 396 engine.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:38 AM   #467
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Originally Posted by SSRS55 View Post
As sweet as the Ls7 sounds, if it has a 50k plus tag, like some people claim it will, I couldn't see myself getting one...
Not when the king of Camaros, the ZL1 could be had for the same price used with very few miles on it... just wouldn't make sense to me to pay the same amount for a lesser car.
Make sense anyone??
That really comes down to what you view as being a "lesser car", even at $45,000 I think the ZL1 Camaro is a lesser car when compared to a LS7 Camaro. Though it has something to do with the LS7 being a legend and all of that crazy stuff (on the day before the first day god created the LS7, the LS7 did everything else).
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:45 AM   #468
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That really comes down to what you view as being a "lesser car", even at $45,000 I think the ZL1 Camaro is a lesser car when compared to a LS7 Camaro. Though it has something to do with the LS7 being a legend and all of that crazy stuff (on the day before the first day god created the LS7, the LS7 did everything else).
In what ways possible could the ZL1 ever be considered a lesser car? Certainly not in the horsepower dept. Or the suspension or braking dept. ... so I'm puzzled to what you mean here?
Although way early to assume or determine what the LS7 will have or even if it will exist, odds are if anything it will steal things like suspension, brakes, etc. From the Z!!!
So again I ask How can the Ls7 Be the dominant car??
Not trying to start a debate on this but rather trying to understand where your coming from on this..
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:38 AM   #469
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COPO's don't have a VIN
+1 they don't have VIN #'s they have serial #'s and you can't register them for the road. :(
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:23 AM   #470
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I might be the only one that agree with what I'm about to say... But for real for real... The LS7 should be the real engine in the ZL1

I think it weighs less than the LS3.. Would be king of the road course


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Old 12-24-2012, 06:42 AM   #471
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Originally Posted by slick rick View Post
They track it like a VIN but don't give it a VIN?
From gmauthority . com

The COPO is not street-legal, therefore it can not be registered, titled, or licensed, and will not contain a VIN — instead being identified only by a serial number. It’s designed for competition in the NHRA’s Stock Eliminator and Super Stock classes.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:22 AM   #472
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In what ways possible could the ZL1 ever be considered a lesser car? Certainly not in the horsepower dept. Or the suspension or braking dept. ... so I'm puzzled to what you mean here?
Although way early to assume or determine what the LS7 will have or even if it will exist, odds are if anything it will steal things like suspension, brakes, etc. From the Z!!!
So again I ask How can the Ls7 Be the dominant car??
Not trying to start a debate on this but rather trying to understand where your coming from on this..
Probably the same way most consider the Z06 the better of the two corvette's.....
And that is people from the automotive press as well as drivers......

The Z06 not the ZR1 is car with the track lap records......

I like them both but when people want to put extra in to get the fastest GM they use the LS7.......
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:35 AM   #473
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That really comes down to what you view as being a "lesser car", even at $45,000 I think the ZL1 Camaro is a lesser car when compared to a LS7 Camaro. Though it has something to do with the LS7 being a legend and all of that crazy stuff (on the day before the first day god created the LS7, the LS7 did everything else).
Not in GM's mind. Just yours
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:45 AM   #474
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Not in GM's mind. Just yours


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Old 12-24-2012, 08:56 AM   #475
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Originally Posted by Mr_Draco View Post
It should have been imo. Historically speaking whenever the Z28 and the SS was offered side by side they was approximately equal in terms of power. The difference was in the suspension and gearing as the Z28 was built more for the track while the SS was more of a 1/4 mile car. Just like the 1LE and SS are for the 5th gen.
Except for the 4th-Gen cars.

Z28 was the base V8 coupe and SS had all the performance goodies.

96 and 97 SS cars were even more differentiated as they used the leftover LT4 Corvette engines while the Z28 had the LT1 engine.

98+ SS cars shared the LS1 with the Z28
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