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Old 12-29-2012, 11:30 PM   #101
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Holy Moly Donut Shop, that ZL1 & 1LE is kicking Major A**, and for a great price
Would love to get my hands on a 1lE
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:59 AM   #102
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yeah, great times
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:19 AM   #103
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STILL wanna see a Nurburgring time out of the 1LE. I think after this, I'm starting to believe it MAY run a sub 8 min lap. (7:59.59) :P

Here's my NEW POLL thread for 1LE time guesses on the Ring:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268238
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:21 AM   #104
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STILL wanna see a Nurburgring time out of the 1LE. I think after this, I'm starting to believe it MAY run a sub 8 min lap. (7:59.59) :P

Here's my NEW POLL thread for 1LE time guesses on the Ring:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268238

Would be nice to get a ring time from the ZL1, 1LE, Boss 302 LS, and 2013 GT500 with track pack all on the same day and same driver..........
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:25 AM   #105
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Would be nice to get a ring time from the ZL1, 1LE, Boss 302 LS, and 2013 GT500 with track pack all on the same day and same driver..........
I'll make some calls
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:57 AM   #106
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I'll make some calls
Yeah, exactly. LOL. Dont think it will ever happen but I bet the outcome would be interesting.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:36 AM   #107
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Would be nice to get a ring time from the ZL1, 1LE, Boss 302 LS, and 2013 GT500 with track pack all on the same day and same driver..........
I just want to see a ring time from a 13 GT500 on a good day.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:02 AM   #108
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You can bet that we will never see a published ring time on the big pony. If it was good we would have already seen it. My guess is it would be a 20 or 30 seconds behind the ZL1. The pony is bad fast in a straight line but can't handle a long track as complicated as the ring.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:09 AM   #109
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Hmmm. Interesting. When a mag tested the 145 hp '82 Z28 against the 157 hp '82 MustNg GT at Willow Springs the Camaro beat the mustang by 2.4 seconds. The more things change the more they remain the same.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:13 AM   #110
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You can bet that we will never see a published ring time on the big pony. If it was good we would have already seen it. My guess is it would be a 20 or 30 seconds behind the ZL1. The pony is bad fast in a straight line but can't handle a long track as complicated as the ring.
There is no way it would be that slow. The new gt500 would be sub 8min for sure. There are long strait sections as well.

I think it would still be very decent time. But I don't think it would be in the 7:35 range like the pil was talking in stock condition.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:22 AM   #111
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For the Mustang it's the rear end, always has been! I had to heavily modified my 1996 SVT Mustang Cobra with stiffer lowering springs, lower rear control arms, stiffer rear sway bar, a functioning Panhard bar from Griggs racing to get the rear to actually track properly. Try driving the live rear axle in the rain and you'll quickly understand why the Mustang has always had so-so handling characteristics. Still like the Mustang but bought the ZL1 due to GM's desire to build an actual track ready vehicle. Instead of putting gobs of power into a crappy chassis platform that was initially based on the Ford Fairmont and drive it fast in a straight line.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:37 PM   #112
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First, congrats to GM for a couple of well-engineered Camaro's. Second, the real bang-for-the-buck performer in this test has to be the Focus ST. I mean, it bases for $23,700 and put down a 3.21 time! If you read the article, it might have even managed a sub-3 min time or right at 3.0 if not for an unfortunate key-fob destruction. That's near 1LE performance for $10K less, base price.

Might want to check the "bang for the buck" bargain again...hands down the 1LE then the BRZ. That pick of yours was just under $30K plus it's really really ugly!
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:48 PM   #113
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According to the article, the 1LE would have bested the GT500 if they had not had a missed shift that waisted a couple of seconds.

"Remove that one regrettable slip-up...and you have a sub-three-minute car for the low, low price of $37,930."
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:10 PM   #114
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Yes, the Camaro is too heavy...unfortunately the Zeta chasis they used was/is heavy. Its really the only thing that holds this car back from being top dog even with the Mustangs performing as good as they do....I mean look at how well the Camaros are performing even with the additional weight.

As to your question about whether or not GM is going to do anything. I'd say the answer is yes and no. You won't see the 5th gen going on a big weight loss. But I bet we see more tweaks and what not before the 6th gen arrives. (LS7 engine anyone??)

The next generation Camaro...the 6th gen, will be built on a lighter chasis. Most likely the Alpha platform, and based on the Cadillac ATS, which is built on the Alpha platform as well, I think we could see a base Camaro in the 3,300 to 3,400 lb range for sure. A V8 equipped model likely in the 3,500+ lb range. I can't wait!

the 2.0t ats is 3500 + why would a v8 Camaro weigh 3500+ more like 3700
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:39 PM   #115
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[/B]
the 2.0t ats is 3500 + why would a v8 Camaro weigh 3500+ more like 3700
The ATS 2.5 (standard) is 3,315 pounds
The ATS 2.0 (turbo standard) is 3,373 pounds
the ATS 3.6 (Luxury) is 3,461 pounds

Of course depending on options and trim levels these cars can pick up weight, most of the 2.0T as tested weight I have seen has been 3,430-3,450 pounds.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:02 PM   #116
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I'd figure 3,650+ for a 6Gen V8 Camaro.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:13 PM   #117
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I'd figure 3,650+ for a 6Gen V8 Camaro.
SLIGHTLY narrower and shorter wheel base alone will save a good chunk of weight. I'm guessing it will drop from 3900ish to 3500ish.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:19 PM   #118
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If the Camaro was to use the same wheel base as the ATS sedan then consider this, the V-6 Camaro is 3,750 pounds and the V-6 ATS is 3,461 pounds. That is roughly a 300 pound weight savings, if that carries through next Camaro that would put 3,850 pounds to 3,550 pounds.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:43 PM   #119
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Would be nice to get a ring time from the ZL1, 1LE, Boss 302 LS, and 2013 GT500 with track pack all on the same day and same driver..........
Would be a little embarrassing for the blue oval fans.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:08 PM   #120
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The ATS 2.5 (standard) is 3,315 pounds
The ATS 2.0 (turbo standard) is 3,373 pounds
the ATS 3.6 (Luxury) is 3,461 pounds

Of course depending on options and trim levels these cars can pick up weight, most of the 2.0T as tested weight I have seen has been 3,430-3,450 pounds.
insideline has a auto 2.0t auto at 3515 which isn't bad ?? I don't know who to believe keep getting different numbers
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I'd figure 3,650+ for a 6Gen V8 Camaro.
I would say you are spot on sir!!!
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If the Camaro was to use the same wheel base as the ATS sedan then consider this, the V-6 Camaro is 3,750 pounds and the V-6 ATS is 3,461 pounds. That is roughly a 300 pound weight savings, if that carries through next Camaro that would put 3,850 pounds to 3,550 pounds.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html

car and driver has the weight of the 3.6 at 3535 so I could see a 3500 ibs v6 but at 200lbs will there be enough of a performance difference how much faster is the ats 3.6 vs the Camaro and why no ats at VIR it would have been perfect to see what it can do and how to properly see the alpha in action!
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:31 PM   #121
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Not to take anything away from any of the cars but does anyone know which cars were tested on the same day? A lot of speculation about the gt500 having to run on a damp course while the camaro's ran on a dry track.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:08 AM   #122
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insideline has a auto 2.0t auto at 3515 which isn't bad ?? I don't know who to believe keep getting different numbers

I would say you are spot on sir!!!


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html

car and driver has the weight of the 3.6 at 3535 so I could see a 3500 ibs v6 but at 200lbs will there be enough of a performance difference how much faster is the ats 3.6 vs the Camaro and why no ats at VIR it would have been perfect to see what it can do and how to properly see the alpha in action!
The thing about looking at the weights used for car rag testing is it is not a base weight, you are looking at the weight of the vehicle with options (and which ones). Plus sometimes those posted weights are est. and guesses, the official curb weight that I posted is from the Cadillac ATS official web site and Edmunds has updated its weights as follows.

In the Motor Trend test they tested I believe a fully loaded ATS (or near fully loaded) with an as tested price of $49,185. In the earlier Motor Trend test of the 2.0T ATS vs the BMW 328i the 2.0T ATS is priced at $45,910 and was stated in their test to be 3,433 pounds.

This isn't a matter of who to believe, its a matter of the difference in weight between a base model and a fully loaded model (which includes but isn't limited to bigger wheels and tires).

Though for the sake of apples to apples I like to compare base curb weight with base curb weight. The current lightest V-6 Camaro is the 1/2LT at 3,741 pounds, the 1LS weighs in at 3,780 pounds and the 2LS weighs in at 3,769 pounds (per chevy web site). They have both 1SS and 2SS at 3,860 pounds though I have seen the SS Camaro with a test weight of over 3,900 pounds.

With that said the base curb weight of a 2LT Camaro is 3,741 pounds and the base curb weight of the ATS 3.6 is 3,461 pounds a difference of 280 pounds. Also when the ATS was in development there were tricks that they did not take to reduce the ATS weight because it was a luxury vehicle which they could use for the next Camaro.

How much of a performance difference will you get with a 300 pound diet????.......With 323BHP and 3,741 pounds the 1LT Camaro has a power to weight ratio of 11.5 pounds per horsepower. A 3,441 pound 321BHP V-6 Camaro would have a power to weight ratio of 10.7 pounds per horsepower. That gives it a power to weight ratio not that far from the 2002 SS Camaro (325BHP and 3,411 pounds). Food for thought....
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:09 AM   #123
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Not to take anything away from any of the cars but does anyone know which cars were tested on the same day? A lot of speculation about the gt500 having to run on a damp course while the camaro's ran on a dry track.
The GT500 was tested with the ZL1 Camaro and 1LE Camaro (same lightning lap issue) as far as the GT500 having to run on a damp track IDK. It is possible that given how many cars that tested that they tested over weeks and as a result conditions could have changed.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:24 AM   #124
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The GT500 was tested with the ZL1 Camaro and 1LE Camaro (same lightning lap issue) as far as the GT500 having to run on a damp track IDK. It is possible that given how many cars that tested that they tested over weeks and as a result conditions could have changed.

ZL1, 1LE and GT500 were run on the same day according to the article.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:40 AM   #125
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ZL1, 1LE and GT500 were run on the same day according to the article.
Where does it say that?
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