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Old 01-01-2013, 04:25 PM   #226
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Nobody is saying the GT500 is better, relax. People are just saying it's not as bad as the ZL1 fans make it out to be.


No too many GT500 fans assume because you drive a ZL1 or give any hint that you like a ZL1 that MUST mean you hate a GT500. Relax, this is not the thread to defend the GT500. It's stands on its own pretty well.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:27 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by SRT8Tech View Post
I guess I can post up the vid of the ZL1 getting beat on a road course by a GT500. Its not a mag time or anything, Just real world stuff.

Keeping that video in context, I believe Torq was there parts testing and was having issues with some new stuff.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:28 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Sharp ZL1 View Post
SRT8Tech,

Thank you for sharing the video. The GT500 sounds sweet. It appears to me that the Camaro ZL1 driver was hitting the wrong entry point at the apex and too early on the brakes? In other words squaring the corners off? That makes it easier to pass does it not? Was it the first time for either driver? As I stated earlier it's usually driver more than car especially at a track day event. I've done both cars and motorcycle track days and it is down to how far do you want to push yourself and the vehicle. Still fastest on my motorcycle hitting 170 at California Speedway in Fontana.
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Keeping that video in context, I believe Torq was there parts testing and was having issues with some new stuff.

Says its Torq's ZL1? I think he was having some heat issues even with his after market exchanger and other parts.

Either way I'd rather see some real world videos of both cars on the same track at the same time then some magazine claims. That goes for MT and all the other companies that have done a 1 lap race while they are the only ones on the track.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:30 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by SlingShot View Post
Keeping that video in context, I believe Torq was there parts testing and was having issues with some new stuff.
Exactly he was testing new parts for the car and even stated on here he wasn't pushing the car hard but people try to claim this as a win........
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:37 PM   #230
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Exactly he was testing new parts for the car and even stated on here he wasn't pushing the car hard but people try to claim this as a win........

He most definitely was pushing the car as hard as he could. It just got heat soaked very quickly. He never claimed he "wasn't pushing the car hard".

You win some you lose some. Kind of like the GT500 and ZL1 on the track. It comes down to driver confidence and experience. Both cars are kind of dumb to claim as road racing cars being that they will heat soak eventually.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:39 PM   #231
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Well when the ZL1 beats the GT500, it's the chassis, NOT the engine...

I don't understand the mentality of this forum anymore. The ZL1 is clearly the better car around the track, even when it's slower, it's still a better handler. Kinda like the Mustang GT vs. the 370Z. Yes, it's faster around the track than the Nissan, but it doesn't handle better. Ford has a certain formula that has been working for them, but they will have to change it very soon. People are starting to catch on.
The mentality is . You have to expect us to defend the Camaro no matter what. Go to SVTperf and its the same thing. If you can sit here and say Ford or Chevy haven't put out great performance vehicles in the Gt500 or ZL1 you're just stupid period.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:42 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by sonic656 View Post
He most definitely was pushing the car as hard as he could. It just got heat soaked very quickly. He never claimed he "wasn't pushing the car hard".

You win some you lose some. Kind of like the GT500 and ZL1 on the track. It comes down to driver confidence and experience. Both cars are kind of dumb to claim as road racing cars being that they will heat soak eventually.
You're right. I was referring to them stating the car was beginning to run hot I believe and they were easing off. Either way I've seen this very misleading video posted a dozen times stating how superior the Gt500 was on the track.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:43 PM   #233
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He was having heat soak issues. But, just another example that I thought I could throw out there. I guess I can post this now since I cropped the funny part out. I almost got banned.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:47 PM   #234
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He was having heat soak issues. But, just another example that I thought I could throw out there. I guess I can post this now since I cropped the funny part out. I almost got banned.
Lol
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:49 PM   #235
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There's data from C & D to support the ZL1 and 1LE being superior to the GT500 in handling. The GT500 powers through with its incredible V8 to get it to the respectable time it posted. It's suspension and chassis let it down. The engine makes it competitive. Kinda like a football teams defense or offense can win the game for a not so well rounded team.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:00 PM   #236
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There's data from C & D to support the ZL1 and 1LE being superior to the GT500 in handling. The GT500 powers through with its incredible V8 to get it to the respectable time it posted. It's suspension and chassis let it down. The engine makes it competitive. Kinda like a football teams defense or offense can win the game for a not so well rounded team.
I don't think anyone, not even the most loyal Ford fanboi can deny that the ZL1 and the 1LE handle better than the comparable Mustangs they are pitted against, even without the C&D data. It's fact that can not be disputed. The 370Z vs. 5.0 is the same argument. The 370Z handles better, and only posts slightly slower lap times even though it's down 100hp. The only reason why the 5.0 comes out on top is the horsepower advantage. The hp advangtage of the GT500 however is not enough to overcome the ZL1's larger contact patch, IRS, and MR3 all the time.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:02 PM   #237
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He most definitely was pushing the car as hard as he could. It just got heat soaked very quickly. He never claimed he "wasn't pushing the car hard".

You win some you lose some. Kind of like the GT500 and ZL1 on the track. It comes down to driver confidence and experience. Both cars are kind of dumb to claim as road racing cars being that they will heat soak eventually.
To be fair though, Torque, while pushing the car as hard as they could, were more doing it for R&D than competition, it just happened that the GT500 was out there running at the same time.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:09 PM   #238
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I don't think anyone, not even the most loyal Ford fanboi can deny that the ZL1 and the 1LE handle better than the comparable Mustangs they are pitted against, even without the C&D data. It's fact that can not be disputed. The 370Z vs. 5.0 is the same argument. The 370Z handles better, and only posts slightly slower lap times even though it's down 100hp. The only reason why the 5.0 comes out on top is the horsepower advantage. The hp advangtage of the GT500 however is not enough to overcome the ZL1's larger contact patch, IRS, and MR3 all the time.
Amen Brother!
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:21 PM   #239
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The hp advangtage of the GT500 however is not enough to overcome the ZL1's larger contact patch, IRS, and MR3 all the time.
But the HP advantage is enough to make the GT500 close and in some cases faster on road courses. And thats been my point all the time. Both are damn close. One has raw HP to get the times and one has the handling.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:22 PM   #240
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He most definitely was pushing the car as hard as he could. It just got heat soaked very quickly. He never claimed he "wasn't pushing the car hard".

You win some you lose some. Kind of like the GT500 and ZL1 on the track. It comes down to driver confidence and experience. Both cars are kind of dumb to claim as road racing cars being that they will heat soak eventually.
Soooooo true.

There are better choices out there.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:23 PM   #241
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It’s surprising that the ZL1 beats the Shelby on some tracks, but it’s even more surprising that a car with a 100 RWHP advantage and 300 LBS. weight advantage doesn’t win every track event. It seems its obvious ford had to react to the ZL1, and they did by throwing as much horsepower in to overcome the other short comings. What were seeing in the 13 Shelby was already seen in the 11 and 12 Shelby with mods. Walking around thumping your chest because you have an advantage is not impressive in my book, what’s impressive is when the less advantageous wins when it should not. Personally I think both cars are amazing for what they do, and the price you pay. As a matter of fact I was on the fence when I ordered my ZL1, but the ZL1 won based on my personal preference on what I was looking for. Yes the Shelby is a straight line terror, and not bad around a track. The ZL1 is a track monster, and not bad in a straight line. It’s very obvious that the Shelby when on any track uses its HP advantage in the straights to make up for lost time in the curves and the ZL1 uses the curves to make up for lost time in the straights. Take away the magnetic ride in the ZL1 and I’m willing to bet it doesn’t change that much. Take away the additional 100 RWHP from the Shelby and I bet things would get ugly. As noted form VIR with the large advantage it has over the 1LE and their times were very very very close. With this said both cars are what they are, choose your weapon and live with it…
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:26 PM   #242
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Itís surprising that the ZL1 beats the Shelby on some tracks, but itís even more surprising that a car with a 100 RWHP advantage and 300 LBS. weight advantage doesnít win every track event. It seems its obvious ford had to react to the ZL1, and they did by throwing as much horsepower in to overcome the other short comings. What were seeing in the 13 Shelby was already seen in the 11 and 12 Shelby with mods. Walking around thumping your chest because you have an advantage is not impressive in my book, whatís impressive is when the less advantageous wins when it should not. Personally I think both cars are amazing for what they do, and the price you pay. As a matter of fact I was on the fence when I ordered my ZL1, but the ZL1 won based on my personal preference on what I was looking for. Yes the Shelby is a straight line terror, and not bad around a track. The ZL1 is a track monster, and not bad in a straight line. Itís very obvious that the Shelby when on any track uses its HP advantage in the straights to make up for lost time in the curves and the ZL1 uses the curves to make up for lost time in the straights. Take away the magnetic ride in the ZL1 and Iím willing to bet it doesnít change that much. Take away the additional 100 RWHP from the Shelby and I bet things would get ugly. As noted form VIR with the large advantage it has over the 1LE and their times were very very very close. With this said both cars are what they are, choose your weapon and live with itÖ
You make a great point. The 1le was right there trailing the 500. With 240 less hp, and roughly the same weight.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #243
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Itís surprising that the ZL1 beats the Shelby on some tracks, but itís even more surprising that a car with a 100 RWHP advantage and 300 LBS. weight advantage doesnít win every track event. It seems its obvious ford had to react to the ZL1, and they did by throwing as much horsepower in to overcome the other short comings. What were seeing in the 13 Shelby was already seen in the 11 and 12 Shelby with mods. Walking around thumping your chest because you have an advantage is not impressive in my book, whatís impressive is when the less advantageous wins when it should not. Personally I think both cars are amazing for what they do, and the price you pay. As a matter of fact I was on the fence when I ordered my ZL1, but the ZL1 won based on my personal preference on what I was looking for. Yes the Shelby is a straight line terror, and not bad around a track. The ZL1 is a track monster, and not bad in a straight line. Itís very obvious that the Shelby when on any track uses its HP advantage in the straights to make up for lost time in the curves and the ZL1 uses the curves to make up for lost time in the straights. Take away the magnetic ride in the ZL1 and Iím willing to bet it doesnít change that much. Take away the additional 100 RWHP from the Shelby and I bet things would get ugly. As noted form VIR with the large advantage it has over the 1LE and their times were very very very close. With this said both cars are what they are, choose your weapon and live with itÖ
Yes some people have laughed at the weight of the Camaro, but that extremely firm chassis is outstanding.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:40 PM   #244
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You make a great point. The 1le was right there trailing the 500. With 240 less hp, and roughly the same weight.
It would have beat it if they hadn't had a bad missed shift. (Their comments) now that's over the top impressive!
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:56 PM   #245
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The ford faithful crack me up. 6k more gets you ~the same lap but its a better value for a road coarse.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:05 PM   #246
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ZL1 and 1LE Very Impressive Results at Car and Driver Annual Lighting Lap #7 @ VIR

I thought this thread was about this ^...so i'm gonna make a comment about that. The ZL1 and 1LE was very impressive on this comparison, especially against vehicles costing more. The ZL1 and 1LE are my favorite cars and i'm gonna have a hard time choosing one when I retire. I might have to wait and see what the 6th gen will be like. I was never a Ford guy, but being that it also did better than cars costing more, is a testament that American engineering is meeting and/or exceeding their counterparts. Now you gotta love that.

So come on...let's all get along.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:08 PM   #247
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Soooooo true.

There are better choices out there.
This car makes me drool...
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:14 PM   #248
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ZL1 and 1LE Very Impressive Results at Car and Driver Annual Lighting Lap #7 @ VIR

I thought this thread was about this ^...so i'm gonna make a comment about that. The ZL1 and 1LE was very impressive on this comparison, especially against vehicles costing more. The ZL1 and 1LE are my favorite cars and i'm gonna have a hard time choosing one when I retire. I might have to wait and see what the 6th gen will be like. I was never a Ford guy, but being that it also did better than cars costing more, is a testament that American engineering is meeting and/or exceeding their counterparts. Now you gotta love that.
It is, but the detractors have a hard time accepting the fact the ZL1 out performed the GT500 in this track outing. Facts are facts.

Back to the topic. Something else lost on most here is the ZL1 has a better F/R weight distribution (53/47 ZL1 // 57/43 GT500) than the GT500 which contributes to better handling. Just doing the math; the ZL1 actually is lighter on the front end compared to the GT500. At a glance it doesn't seem possible, but not all of the added weight on the ZL1 is on the front because of the supercharger. Some of it comes from the added mass of the beefed up rear end and suspension.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:57 PM   #249
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Cool

I have a ZL1 on order. This, after driving BMWs for 20 years.

I will never go on any track with this car or any dragstrip. I bought this car because the level of technology and sophistication is approaching and hopefully surpassing, what is available from other (mostly European) manufacturers.

The reviews have been universally good, even in foreign publications, and I think this car would do very well on the Autobahn. My driving in this car will consist of mostly freeway, but very often mountain driving, as I have a cabin in the mountains. I expect this car to excel in both aspects of my driving, as did my BMWs before it. BMW has never made the fastest car nor even the best handling (some would debate that!) but it consistently has made arguably the best driver's cars in the world. In particular, the 3 series is a measure which all automakers would like to attain.

I'm hoping the Camaro will fill the bill. It will outhandle and out run 99% of all vehicles out there and there is a lot of fun in that. I drive a lot, and if I'm not having fun I might as well be in a Prius.

All the arguing back and forth about road racing or drags leaves me a little amused because of the childishness of it all.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:18 PM   #250
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The ford faithful crack me up. 6k more gets you ~the same lap but its a better value for a road coarse.
Exactly
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