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Old 01-01-2013, 08:36 PM   #251
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All the arguing back and forth about road racing or drags leaves me a little amused because of the childishness of it all.

Weeellllll, I think the arguing back and forth is because the ZL1 beat the GT500 on this course and all of the sudden the ZL1 is the top dog of road courses compared to the GT500. When in fact the GT500 has beat the ZL1 on other road courses. Thats the little fact that keeps being overlooked. The GT500 and ZL1 are actually closely matched on road courses. The ZL1 is not this GT500 road course killer this thread makes it out to be. Some courses the GT500 will win and some the ZL1 will win. Thats just the way it is......

Also a little arguing is good.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:43 PM   #252
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Weeellllll, I think the arguing back and forth is because the ZL1 beat the GT500 on this course and all of the sudden the ZL1 is the top dog of road courses compared to the GT500. When in fact the GT500 has beat the ZL1 on other road courses. Thats the little fact that keeps being overlooked. The GT500 and ZL1 are actually closely matched on road courses. The ZL1 is not this GT500 road course killer this thread makes it out to be. Some courses the GT500 will win and some the ZL1 will win. Thats just the way it is......

Also a little arguing is good.
Yea nothing wrong with arguing some of us can't get out and go to the dragstrip or a road course now due to the weather so it's getting to us lol
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:46 PM   #253
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Yea nothing wrong with arguing some of us can't get out and go to the dragstrip or a road course now due to the weather so it's getting to us lol
Truuuu, gotta watch those temps with the Badyear G2 supercars. LOL. I saw the temp go down to 39 a few days ago while driving and I was like aww crap gonna crack my Goodyears.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:50 PM   #254
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I have a ZL1 on order. This, after driving BMWs for 20 years.

I will never go on any track with this car or any dragstrip. I bought this car because the level of technology and sophistication is approaching and hopefully surpassing, what is available from other (mostly European) manufacturers.

The reviews have been universally good, even in foreign publications, and I think this car would do very well on the Autobahn. My driving in this car will consist of mostly freeway, but very often mountain driving, as I have a cabin in the mountains. I expect this car to excel in both aspects of my driving, as did my BMWs before it. BMW has never made the fastest car nor even the best handling (some would debate that!) but it consistently has made arguably the best driver's cars in the world. In particular, the 3 series is a measure which all automakers would like to attain.

I'm hoping the Camaro will fill the bill. It will outhandle and out run 99% of all vehicles out there and there is a lot of fun in that. I drive a lot, and if I'm not having fun I might as well be in a Prius.

All the arguing back and forth about road racing or drags leaves me a little amused because of the childishness of it all.

We traded in our BMW for a '12 SS LS3. The Camaro is kinda quirky, but the fun factor and torque thrill is undeniable. We got bored with the "ultimate driving machine" and wanted a more primal experience.

After you go to your cabin take the car over the pass on a good weather holiday weekend, you will be amazed at how many car enthusiast like to play around with other sports cars in the mountains. No racing just "spirited driving". Oh just checked the location of Burney and your pretty far away from the major population centers so maybe you wont see to many other ethusiasts.

Don't rule out a track experience like "Hooked on Driving" to quickly, its a lot of good natured fun for average people wanting to add some fun to daily life. Much more exciting than another round of golf!
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:51 PM   #255
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Truuuu, gotta watch those temps with the Badyear G2 supercars. LOL. I saw the temp go down to 39 a few days ago while driving and I was like aww crap gonna crack my Goodyears.
Lol I just got my gtr a few days ago and haven't even got on it. My camaro is garaged due to all the snow and my jeep isn't good at all in this weather even with snow tires
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:53 PM   #256
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Weeellllll, I think the arguing back and forth is because the ZL1 beat the GT500 on this course and all of the sudden the ZL1 is the top dog of road courses compared to the GT500. When in fact the GT500 has beat the ZL1 on other road courses. Thats the little fact that keeps being overlooked. The GT500 and ZL1 are actually closely matched on road courses. The ZL1 is not this GT500 road course killer this thread makes it out to be. Some courses the GT500 will win and some the ZL1 will win. Thats just the way it is......

Also a little arguing is good.
Actually, I think it funny how the fact that 5 out of 5 mag reviews all gave the ZL1 the crown keeps getting overlooked. The 3 second annihilation at VIR just solidifies any sideline doubts.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:54 PM   #257
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Actually, I think it funny how the fact that 5 out of 5 mag reviews all gave the ZL1 the crown keeps getting overlooked. The 3 second annihilation at VIR just solidifies any sideline doubts.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:57 PM   #258
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Do you think your car at that power level would run the same time or better?
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:58 PM   #259
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And its even more funny that they gave it the crown even though it lost half of those road course track times and ALL of the 1/4 mile times. Bahhhh, its all good, I guess its got a more comfy ride than the GT500.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:04 PM   #260
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Do you think your car at that power level would run the same time or better?
Considering that I'm about 230lbs lighter than a ZL1 and I have appx 75WHP more than a stock ZL1......I'd bet the bank on it.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:08 PM   #261
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Considering that I'm about 230lbs lighter than a ZL1 and I have appx 75WHP more than a stock ZL1......I'd bet the bank on it.
Im asking because sometimes it's harder to control a car with that much power. And your lighter now so I think it would be a interesting test
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:13 PM   #262
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And its even more funny that they gave it the crown even though it lost half of those road course track times and ALL of the 1/4 mile times. Bahhhh, its all good, I guess its got a more comfy ride than the GT500.
and it won half of them being down 100 rwhp and 300lb weight disadvantage, what's your point....
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:14 PM   #263
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I have a ZL1 on order. This, after driving BMWs for 20 years.

I will never go on any track with this car or any dragstrip. I bought this car because the level of technology and sophistication is approaching and hopefully surpassing, what is available from other (mostly European) manufacturers.

The reviews have been universally good, even in foreign publications, and I think this car would do very well on the Autobahn. My driving in this car will consist of mostly freeway, but very often mountain driving, as I have a cabin in the mountains. I expect this car to excel in both aspects of my driving, as did my BMWs before it. BMW has never made the fastest car nor even the best handling (some would debate that!) but it consistently has made arguably the best driver's cars in the world. In particular, the 3 series is a measure which all automakers would like to attain.

I'm hoping the Camaro will fill the bill. It will outhandle and out run 99% of all vehicles out there and there is a lot of fun in that. I drive a lot, and if I'm not having fun I might as well be in a Prius.

All the arguing back and forth about road racing or drags leaves me a little amused because of the childishness of it all.
I see it as good and interesting debate. Where do you feel it's childish...Dad?
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:16 PM   #264
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and it won half of them being down 100 rwhp and 300lb weight disadvantage, what's your point....
Point is the ZL1 is not this GT500 road course killer this thread is making it out to be......Do you by chance drive in the Orange Park area with your ZL1?? Ive seen a black one around. Not to many around here.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:17 PM   #265
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And its even more funny that they gave it the crown even though it lost half of those road course track times and ALL of the 1/4 mile times. Bahhhh, its all good, I guess its got a more comfy ride than the GT500.
If you want a comfy ride, try one of these.


It actually outlapped the gt500 on the LL a couple years ago.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:23 PM   #266
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And its even more funny that they gave it the crown even though it lost half of those road course track times and ALL of the 1/4 mile times. Bahhhh, its all good, I guess its got a more comfy ride than the GT500.
You're missing the point, throw a bunch of HP (I do believe the GT500 engine is very very good) at a decent car and it will win. But that does not make it a great car. All that HP is a crutch for an old design. Ford knew that and kudos to them for keeping their old car relevant.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:34 PM   #267
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Point is the ZL1 is not this GT500 road course killer this thread is making it out to be......Do you by chance drive in the Orange Park area with your ZL1??
That’s like saying the 662 HP shelpy is not killing the road course as it should… It seems like to me with the HP and weight advantage the 13 Shelby has everyone assuming the ZL1 shouldn’t beat it at anything… on paper that would be a good assumption…. It’s simple physics… HP vs Weight… but somehow I guess when the stars are just right, and moon is aligned with venus, the ZL1 seems to defy physics and runs the track better… to be honest I’m still trying to figure out how in the hell that happens, because we all know the laws of physics can’t be broken… unless somehow the ZL1 has magic ride or something……. I think credit should be given where credit is due… the lap time was very good… all that should be said is nice time… not bashing the car… everytime I hear about a great quarter mile time put down by a Shelby, I think it’s great time… love seeing the car move out….. in all things as they are… the time was a great time nothing more nothing less… it is what it is…. Yes, that would be me… I live outside the Orange Park area, and drive thru there on my to and from work… I think I may have seen you in the area as well….
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:48 PM   #268
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And its even more funny that they gave it the crown even though it lost half of those road course track times and ALL of the 1/4 mile times. Bahhhh, its all good, I guess its got a more comfy ride than the GT500.
Were are you getting these half courses lost to GT500? I know of two out of like 10 comparisons where the Shelby beat the zl1 laptime, and both of those courses it won on the last straightaway due to the power. It won by a few hundreds of a second. However, after 2-3 laps even on some of those tracks the GT500 lost laptime comparisons

The ZL1 is a Shelby killer at the road courses, not even a comparison. Open track day sessions last more than 2 laps you know.

VIR - 3 seconds for ZL1
Monticello with Chris Harris - 2 seconds for ZL1
Motor Trend Laguna Seca - 0.49 for Shelby GT500, lost to ZL1 after 3rd lap
Car and Driver Grattan - Same laptime, GT500 picked up on straightaway,
Road and Track Grattan - 0.5 seconds for ZL1
Insideline Streets of Willow - 0.6 sec GT500 Shelby, again straightaway pick up.
Automobile Mag Gingerman Raceway - 0.7 sec for ZL1, track has three straightaways
Edmunds NOT TRACK but road - ZL1 was smoking GT500 on backroads
AND the Nurnburgring - ZL1 clocked, GT500 showed up and went back home.

If you are a road racer, the ZL1 is lightyears ahead of the GT500. Solid rear, sliding rear calipers, skinny rear tires (my fronts are like the GT500 rears), solid front rotors, and a 57% front weight distribution make the Shelby a not so friendly track car.

Finally, keep in mind the SS 1LE almost showed its behind to the shelby at VIR.

The Shelby is still a very respectable car, the laptimes show it vs. the world, but Ford seriously has to catch up in many areas to keep up with the Camaro. Power is not a problem for American cars and we know GM has motors capable of 640 hp that are based on what the camaro is using. Does Ford have chassis tuning on any car that is superior to the GM vehicles? Hmmmmmmmm...
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:52 PM   #269
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That’s like saying the 662 HP shelpy is not killing the road course as it should… It seems like to me with the HP and weight advantage the 13 Shelby has everyone assuming the ZL1 shouldn’t beat it at anything… on paper that would be a good assumption…. It’s simple physics… HP vs Weight… but somehow I guess when the stars are just right, and moon is aligned with venus, the ZL1 seems to defy physics and runs the track better… to be honest I’m still trying to figure out how in the hell that happens, because we all know the laws of physics can’t be broken… unless somehow the ZL1 has magic ride or something……. I think credit should be given where credit is due… the lap time was very good… all that should be said is nice time… not bashing the car… everytime I hear about a great quarter mile time put down by a Shelby, I think it’s great time… love seeing the car move out….. in all things as they are… the time was a great time nothing more nothing less… it is what it is…. Yes, that would be me… I live outside the Orange Park area, and drive thru there on my to and from work… I think I may have seen you in the area as well….
I give the ZL1 a ton of credit. I said before, to get an over 4000 pound car to do what its doing is just damn good!!! I think the 2013 GT500 is just alot of power to get to the ground and its not happening. Need alot more seat time in the car to get a decent time out of it. Thats the good thing about the ZL1. Its much more easy to drive. It will be interesting to see wht Ford and Chevy put out for the next gen Mustang and Camaro.....
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:58 PM   #270
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I give the ZL1 a ton of credit. I said before, to get an over 4000 pound car to do what its doing is just damn good!!! I think the 2013 GT500 is just alot of power to get to the ground and its not happening. Need alot more seat time in the car to get a decent time out of it. Thats the good thing about the ZL1. Its much more easy to drive. It will be interesting to see wht Ford and Chevy put out for the next gen Mustang and Camaro.....
I can agree with that, but will also add, the more seat time in the Z, and it will get better as well..... I love the Shelby... it's a beast... I don't think anyone on Camaro5 or anywhere else can not say otherwise if so, then they are very bias... that’s my opinion..... BTW love what you’re doing with your car... also notice the times you were putting down when you had your Challenger.... Impressive… I’m a fan of all performance cars… If I had the money I would have as many as I can….. right now It’s just the one, but hopefully in the near future I will be adding something else.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:08 PM   #271
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Nice numbers. About time that Camaro outshined the SRA Mustangs.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:08 PM   #272
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Were are you getting these half courses lost to GT500? I know of two out of like 10 comparisons where the Shelby beat the zl1 laptime, and both of those courses it won on the last straightaway due to the power. It won by a few hundreds of a second. However, after 2-3 laps even on some of those tracks the GT500 lost laptime comparisons

The ZL1 is a Shelby killer at the road courses, not even a comparison. Open track day sessions last more than 2 laps you know.

VIR - 3 seconds for ZL1
Monticello with Chris Harris - 2 seconds for ZL1
Motor Trend Laguna Seca - 0.49 for Shelby GT500, lost to ZL1 after 3rd lap
Car and Driver Grattan - Same laptime, GT500 picked up on straightaway,
Road and Track Grattan - 0.5 seconds for ZL1
Insideline Streets of Willow - 0.6 sec GT500 Shelby, again straightaway pick up.
Automobile Mag Gingerman Raceway - 0.7 sec for ZL1, track has three straightaways
Edmunds NOT TRACK but road - ZL1 was smoking GT500 on backroads
AND the Nurnburgring - ZL1 clocked, GT500 showed up and went back home.

If you are a road racer, the ZL1 is lightyears ahead of the GT500. Solid rear, sliding rear calipers, skinny rear tires (my fronts are like the GT500 rears), solid front rotors, and a 57% front weight distribution make the Shelby a not so friendly track car.

Finally, keep in mind the SS 1LE almost showed its behind to the shelby at VIR.

The Shelby is still a very respectable car, the laptimes show it vs. the world, but Ford seriously has to catch up in many areas to keep up with the Camaro. Power is not a problem for American cars and we know GM has motors capable of 640 hp that are based on what the camaro is using. Does Ford have chassis tuning on any car that is superior to the GM vehicles? Hmmmmmmmm...


I never doubted that the ZL1 is the better track car. Just that when it comes to road course times there are to many variables. Even with the same driver. Take this one for example. The 2011 GT500 put down a 2:58 time on the exact course the 2013 GT500 just put down that 3:00 time......
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:32 PM   #273
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The ford faithful crack me up. 6k more gets you ~the same lap but its a better value for a road coarse.
+1

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Laguna Seca and Streets of Willow the GT500 was faster. Tied on Grattan Raceway. ZL1 faster on Gingerman and VIR. I don't know how anyone can call the ZL1 substantially faster in anything...And less sophisticated technology? Suspension or engine? Because last time I checked a pushrod V8 is not the most advanced technology in the world...at least not compared to a DOHC 32V design...that has less displacement and puts out almost 100hp more...
This is from realperformancemustangs.com:

"While the Shelby has significantly more power than the ZL1, it also has skinnier tires and less sophisticated chassis, damper and traction control systems. Its engine may be ahead of the Camaro's, but everything else is behind."
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:45 PM   #274
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This is from realperformancemustangs.com:

"While the Shelby has significantly more power than the ZL1, it also has skinnier tires and less sophisticated chassis, damper and traction control systems. Its engine may be ahead of the Camaro's, but everything else is behind."
^My exact thoughts on the ZL1/GT500 battle. The 5.8 in the GT500 is an engine looking for a chassis. Ford needs to bring back a Ford GT equivalent and put the 5.8 in that.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:01 PM   #275
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This thread makes me realize why you can't talk about politics or religion on this forum…

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