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Old 06-24-2009, 04:40 PM   #1
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Winner, winner - Jalopnik compares the Big 3

Don't know if you saw this or not.

Pretty solid review. Mostly because the Camaro wins.

Quote:
Here's what you've been waiting for — the 2010 Chevy Camaro SS, 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T and the 2010 Ford Mustang GT — reviewed by us, together at the same time and place. Time for the Muscle Car Wars!

Here's what we're going to do — since there's outlets out there better suited to walking through reams of meaningless testing data, we've left that to them. Instead, we're more interested in how these babies perform as, well, as muscle cars. That's something as much about feeling as about numbers. So we've assigned two Jalopnik staff people to each of the three marvelous modern muscle cars, rating them on a five-star scale for the categories of Exterior Design, Interior Design, Acceleration, Braking, Ride, Handling, Gearbox, Audio, Toys, Value and an Overall score. We'll add up each writers scores for each car and the pony with the most stars at the end wins! Let's begin.


EXTERIOR DESIGN

2010 Chevy Camaro SS


Krewson: *****
Yes, it's a retro-inspired reimagining, and you might want to dock it points for that, and yes, its sheer size is astounding- at one point Wert was driving the Camaro (imagine that) just a couple car-lengths in front of me on the expressway when a Civic pulled between us, and the Camaro's shapely flared fenders were clearly visible on either side of the Honda. But come on, folks, get into the spirit of the thing and admit that from the scowling grille to those muscular flares, it looks exactly the way a 21st-century Camaro should, all hunkered-down heroism and larger-than-life muscularity. A stunning car.

Siler: *****
Ditches the shamelessly retro nature of the other two for something that's more retro futuristic.
Pushes all the right muscle car buttons, promising a powerful, wild car underneath.

Dodge Challenger R/T

Siler: ****
The only retro car that actually looks better than the original, the Dodge Challenger resolves the 1970 car's awkward proportions into something that's completely distinctive and seriously attractive. A master class in car as toy for man-children, the Challenger would be perfect if it wasn't so big that it makes all its drivers look like the 12-year olds that they are inside. This car has the "Classic" package, which brings chrome Crager replicas and swoopy black stripes.

Wert: ***
As I've said before, the Challenger's the perfectly-styled retro muscle car...for 2008. Back then it was the only newly-styled pony on the road. Now, with the Camaro and Mustang available, it just kinda looks quaint — not exciting. Still I love the children's coloring book R/T stripe package.

Ford Mustang GT

Wert: ****
I can't tell you how many times I've heard "It's not a revolutionary design change, it's evolutionary." Still, we should all be this evolved. The new design freshens up the packaging of what is, essentially, the same Mustang powertrain lineup as before. Also, love the trick turn signals lighting up in sequence.

Krewson: ****
The Mustang looked, well, pretty okay when it debuted a few years ago, and while it was never exactly revolutionary, they've done a pretty good job of sharpening this crease here and redrawing that curve there to keep the design pleasant enough. Our GT had the extra fog lights, the blacked-out pony on the grille, the nifty sequential turn signals, and the tasteful spoiler delete option, so even in frankly putrid Harvest Gold Metallic (remember the great kitchen stoves of the '70s?) the GT is a nice, handsome car. Not striking or daring or even particularly head-turning, mind you, but certainly a car that'll give the owner satisfied grins for a good long time.


INTERIOR DESIGN

Chevy Camaro SS


Krewson: ****
The strong styling continues inside to pretty good effect, with those distinctive round gauges in rectilinear pods looking out at you through a chunky steering wheel and ancillary gauges peeking up at you past the shifter, materials that are perfectly fine, and two rather firm deep-dish bucket seats (let's just ignore the back seats the way God intended). You are way, way down in those seats, though; again there's no escaping the size of this car, which means visibility isn't great in any direction except straight ahead. And even in the age of chin-level beltlines the Camaro is in a league of its own-I tried to hang my elbow out the window just like any decent American would and damn near dislocated my shoulder. Just the same, it's aggressive, well-executed, and muscle-car appropriate.

Siler: ***
A reasonable amount of space, even in the rear seats, but vision is terrible, materials are cheap and the supplementary instruments down by the gear stick feel contrived.

Dodge Challenger R/T

Siler: **
Well, it covers all the unsightly wires and whatnot, so I suppose that's something. Sit in the Challenger and you could be in a Neon, PT Cruiser or any other crappy Chrysler/Dodge. It does not make you feel special.

Wert: **
Dear federal government, please never let the current LX platform spawn another model with the exact same blank, flat, plastic interior design we've seen since the 300C first rolled off the Brampton assembly line in 2004. The seats however, and rear room, are divine. Your taxpaying friend, Ray.

Ford Mustang GT

Wert: *****
I can't believe I'm saying a Ford Mustang looks good on the inside, but it really does — with lots of room in the front cockpit and good use of more expensive-feeling plastics than the other two muscle cars. Also, bonus point for having a windowsill low enough to rest your elbow on without getting an ulnar nerve displacement.

Krewson: ****
Less pretty, more practical: More retro here, this time Ford flavored, featuring one of the great automotive typefaces of all time on the tach and speedo (Dad was a Ford guy, and seeing that dash on Father's Day weekend gave me a real pang, I don't mind telling you), controls with pleasant heft and feel, and simple, well-bolstered seats. It's a touch slabby, in the way your passenger gets a nice aluminum panel staring them in the face and the door panels kind of resemble collections of vacuum cleaner attachments, but it's all built out of pretty good stuff and you're soon right at home. Except for the rear quarters, outward visibility is quite excellent as well, though Ford will let you cover up those rear-quarter windows with optional louvers if you just want to throw your hands up and say to hell with everything.


ACCELERATION

Chevy Camaro SS

Krewson: ****
I know, I know, the numbers say one thing, but my inner ear and butt say quite another. You may argue that my butt's doing all the talking as usual, but hear me out: there may be a big ol' version of one of the great engines of all time in this thing, but it's deep down under lots and lots of automotive lard, and the car never felt all that comfortable to launch or happy to hook up. Yes, the Camaro is the quickest car here, and my forebrain knows that. But my, uh, hindbrain keeps telling me all that quick should be a lot more fun, and it's right.

Siler: *****
With a 426 HP, 420 Lb-Ft 6.2-liter V8, straight line acceleration is the Camaro's reason for being. The official 0-60 time of 4.6 seconds means you'd have to bring a Cadillac CTS-V or Corvette to be assured of beating the Camaro.

Dodge Challenger R/T

Siler: ***
376 HP and 410 Lb-Ft of torque do an admirable job of propelling the 4,140 Lb Challenger, but the engine needs more revs than we'd like in a muscle car and that weight does make it noticeably slower than the other two. Expect 0-60 MPH in 5.5 seconds.

Wert: ***
There's always power to be had with a HEMI, even if the R/T only comes equipped with the smaller of the two shoehorned between the rails of this platform. Given how heavy this car is, it needs the 6.1-liter.

Ford Mustang GT

Wert: ***
Meh. Same Mustang powertrain, different Mustang model year. Wake me up when I can get an EcoBoosted-six under the hood with more HP. Or something Boss-ier. Still, the Mustang GT holds its own against the Challenger R/T. Then, of course, they both realize they were just left in a cloud of smoke by the Camaro SS.

Krewson: ****
Same rating as the Camaro, because in the real world, the Mustang is easier to hook up, feels more eager, and unlike the other cars here it wasn't so bloated that it struggled to get out of its own way. Nice loud toppling-woodpile clunks from that live axle, though, and when all's been said and you need to get things done, the Camaro will run a tick or two faster. It just won't be as much fun


BRAKING

Chevy Camaro SS


Krewson: ****
Now here's a very pleasant surprise; these brakes are pretty good. Sure, they're giant discs working on huge tires, but it's still a wonder the way they progressively and repeatedly slowed a sizable coupe without being grabby in the least. Impressive.

Siler: ****
Like the engine, biggest is best. 14" discs are reassuringly powerful and easy to modulate.

Dodge Challenger R/T

Wes: ***
You can feel the Challenger's weight here too, even if you can't feel much in general. The 13.6" front discs will bring you to a stop, but we wouldn't want to rely on them to repeatedly haul us up on track.

Ray: **
Could have used a set of Brembos like the SRT8. Just sayin'...

Ford Mustang GT

Wert: ***
Not Brembo-class, but capable with little of the brake fade I felt on the Challenger.

Krewson: ****
Communicative, unflappable, and very good indeed, if not world-beating. Again, size and weight played a subjective part as I was more comfortable braking harder and more confidently in the Mustang than the others.


RIDE

Chevy Camaro SS

Krewson: ****
It's firmly sprung and damped, but even on some of the astoundingly excruciating roads we put up with in NYC, the Camaro did an okay job of keeping the fillings in the teeth. It soaks up freeway bumps particularly well, although strangely, expansion joints seem to only hit through the rear wheels. My theory: the supermassive Chevy's front wheels smoothly pound bumps through the Earth's crust on contact, but then the rear wheels jounce over the resulting impact craters.

Siler: ***
Where you want and expect a visceral muscle car, The Camaro rides like a luxury sedan thanks to struts and coil springs up front and multilink rear suspension.

Dodge Challenger R/T

Siler: ***
Pretty decent for a performance car, the Challenger rides like all the LX platform sedans. Large ruts and long sequences of bumps still upset the chassis, meaning more composure would be welcome, that's surprising for a car with independent rear suspension.

Wert: *
Wait, the Mustang's the one with the truck axle, right? In all seriousness, the cut in size from the standard LX platform does nothing to help smooth out the jarring feeling of the West Side highway underneath you.

Ford Mustang GT

Wert: ***
While you can tell it's a live axle, you can also tell Ford's spent the past, umm, 45 years, fine-tuning the suspension for this tree-trunk-like truck axle to soften up what would otherwise be bone-shattering rough roads. It actually performed better than the Challenger's IRS. Who knew?

Krewson: ****
It's good and supple and comfortable, right up the the point it isn't. That live axle does a surprisingly good job of soaking up most trouble, but again, we're in New York City, and on the bad stuff the live axle turns undead on you. As a result, this is is the muscle car I sheepishly drove around the potholes.


HANDLING

Chevy Camaro SS

Krewson: ***
Frankly, I didn't like driving the Camaro all that much. I didn't hate it-It grips pretty well, and its considerable mass is tautly strung together and evidently well-centralized, because it handles predictably and turns without yawing like a lifeboat and never seemed to want to plow the front under or spin the rear out. But it wasn't the happiest car I've ever driven, and when you took it through the tight stuff or changed direction quickly, it seemed to double in weight. Conversely, the steering was far too light and isolated from the wheels, making the car feel even less integrated.

Siler: ***
Imminently capable yet utterly boring. We want muscle cars to be wild, dangerous beasts that require big balls and bigger skills to exploit, yet your mom could take it down a back road as fast as you could. Push it and the staggered tires will see the narrower fronts push unless you're silly with the throttle, then you get uncontrollable oversteer.

Dodge Challenger R/T

Siler: **
Ties itself in knots in corners, initially it's all understeer before snapping into oversteer unpredictably. You can't fully defeat the stability control (only the traction), which is a good thing because the good ship Challenger feels just like the LX sedan it is underneath.

Wert: **
Frankly, cornering the Challenger's like trying to wrassle a warthog. I mean, if I knew what wrasslin' a warthog was like. But my assumption is it'd operate just like one of them thar rear-wheel-driven animals, moving that rump from side to side with nothing close to resembling grace and ease.

Ford Mustang GT

Wert: ***
Yes, the Mustang GT handles well, but not world-beater well. I'm sorry but the live-axle becomes apparent if you accelerate over even a medium-sized pothole or highway spacer while turning. It's good, but it could be better.

Krewson: *****
Better men than I am, and also Wes, have striven to tell us the Mustang GT is a brilliant handler despite being a bone-stick-stone primitive struts-and-live-axle car. Well, those men and Wes are absolutely right. It moves so much better than every other car in this group that it's hardly even a fair comparison. The steering is well-coupled and well-weighted and perfectly matches the Mustang's aptitude for cornering without drama, complaint, or anything to spoil your fun-your loads and loads of fun. Chalk it up to American ingenuity, I guess, because it flat-out works.

GEARBOX

Chevy Camaro SS


Krewson: ****
A muscle car, or as I'm starting to think of this Camaro, "muscle-lux" car, with a six-speed transmission is surely one of the signs we're living in The Future, and this six-speed is a nice one. The clutch engages through a surprisingly narrow band, though, strange when you consider the very similar G8 GXP had such great feel and usability.

Siler: ****
It's a Tremec TR6060, as used in every other V8 GM performance car ever made. That's a good thing because it has short, positive throws and precise selection.

Dodge Challenger R/T

Siler: **
Whoever thought a pistol grip was a good idea for this long-throw, sloppy version of the TR6060 is a moron. It's pretty hard to find the right gear, made harder because you have to grab the shifter like a cartoon superhero.

Wert: ****
I loved the Tremec TR6060 six-speed manual transmission in the Dodge Viper and I love it here in the Challenger. The pistol grip shifter's a nice touch and makes me think, for just a moment that I'm in a ‘60s muscle car. I like that feeling.

Ford Mustang GT

Wert: ****
I simply adore the Mustang's gearbox. It's easy to shift, even with the rock-hard clutch. I'd have given them an extra star if they'd offered a six rather than the five. Ah well, still love it.

Krewson: ****
Just a five-speed here, though, somewhat disappointing as the GT500 can be had with six. Still, it's a good five-speed, the best-shifting gearbox of the group by a couple hairs, with much better, if stiffer clutch feel.


TOYS

Chevy Camaro SS


Krewson: ***
I continue to be a fan of GM's OnStar, the navigation system that is made of real live people. Also, if I understand Ray correctly, this car unfolds into a five-story tall robot, which is not to be sneezed at.

Siler: **
No Sat/Nav? OnStar will give you directions and call an ambulance when you hit a telephone pole, but I'd hardly call either fun. The extra gauge pack is somewhat pointless as all the needles do is sit still right in the middle. I'm convinced they're glued on.

Dodge Challenger R/T

Siler: *
If you love caressing sweaty black plastic you'll love playing inside the Challenger, otherwise that cheapo stereo/nav screen is all you get. Still, the Challenger is essentially a full scale Hot Wheels toy so people will always think you're playing with something.

Wert: *
What toys? The craptastic nav system that always sends me through the Brooklyn Battery tunnel rather than the Midtown or Brooklyn Bridge? That one?

Ford Mustang GT

Wert: *
This car is a toy. It's toy-sized and it looks like a toy. Unfortunately, it has no toys in your toy so you can play while you play.

Krewson: ****
Our GT was a little basic, without either of the available nav units, but it did have Ford's excellent SYNC system, which is worth noting for its transparency and because, as far as I know, it's the only voice-recognition system in the world that works really well. It also has that Mustang interior accent-lighting color-change gadget, which is kind of neat, I guess, but spare me.


VALUE

Chevy Camaro SS

Krewson: ***
Of course the person who absolutely has to have it will get it, and they'll be able to overlook its considerable flaws because none of them are really deal-breakers. But the average person looking for a fun second car just has too many other alternatives, whether they're looking for an all-American-type experience or not; this Camaro is a strange 'tweener, neither a luxury coupe nor a true go-to-hell muscle car, and that's an awkward no-man's land. That said, it was the car that dropped the most jaws, got the most thumbs-up, and made kids yell "Bumblebee! Bumblebee!" Can you really put a price on that?

Siler: ****
A 426 HP Corvette engine with four seats and good looks for just $31,040? That's amazingly good value even if it is boring to drive.

Dodge Challenger R/T

Siler: ***
$30,995 isn't bad for a fast-ish muscle car that looks this good, but the other two offer so much more for a similar price that it'd be hard to pick the Challenger.

Wert: **
It's $1000 cheaper than a base SS but still a world apart.

Ford Mustang GT

Wert: **
At $32,835 it's too rich for my blood. Especially when you can get a Camaro SS with so much more HP, brakes and panache for just a grand more.

Krewson: ****
It wouldn't be perfect, but unlike the other cars here, the Mustang could in fact be your only car. It's the easiest car to drive in everyday traffic as well as the easiest to drive fast, the most comfortable, and probably the cheapest to buy and operate. It's also a 'tweener, but it occupies a more comfortable area between muscle car, sports car, and daily-driver.


OVERALL



Third: Dodge Challenger R/T
Average score: 2.5

Equipped with all the characteristics of a classic muscle car — big engine, not much else — the Challenger R/T just doesn't stack up in the modern world. Krewson and I spent and entire weekend fighting about who's turn it was to drive it. Not because we wanted to, but because we were so embarrassed by the bright orange paint, Hot Wheels stripes and the huge size that we really didn't.

Second: Ford Mustang GT
Average score: 3.6

The lightest, least powerful and most involving to drive car here, it's nevertheless 111 HP down on the Camaro SS. If muscle cars are about muscle, that matters. Even though it's the cheapest base model, you have to spec it up to the base Camaro SS price if you want equivalent spec. Had we had the optional track pack, with its GT500-derived suspension, we suspect this result could have been even pricier, but the outcome may have been very different.

First: Chevy Camaro SS
Average score: 3.7

The Camaro has a great engine, looks really cool and does pretty well everywhere else. Since none of these cars are out-and-out handlers, that puts it over the top. Grow a mullet, switch to cheap domestic beer and embrace your inner hoon.


SOURCE: http://jalopnik.com/5302090/...ger-vs-mustang



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Old 06-24-2009, 05:00 PM   #2
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Some of those guys pissed me off.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
GEARBOX

Chevy Camaro SS

Krewson: ****
A muscle car, or as I'm starting to think of this Camaro, "muscle-lux" car, with a six-speed transmission is surely one of the signs we're living in The Future, and this six-speed is a nice one.
I could swear the fbodies had 6-speed trannies since 1993 unless he is referring only to autos. The GT is still waiting for one.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:30 PM   #4
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Thanks for posting. Their import bias shows but it was still an interesting read.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:32 PM   #5
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Yeah you could tell they didn't want to give the camaro too much but in the end it still won...
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:39 PM   #6
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Can someone say "Hit the I WIN Button!"

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Old 06-24-2009, 06:40 PM   #7
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Another mullet comment. I'd like to take a poll in this site how many here have ever had a mullet.
The heft of the Camaro is sure getting a lot of comments.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azfan View Post
Another mullet comment. I'd like to take a poll in this site how many here have ever had a mullet.
The heft of the Camaro is sure getting a lot of comments.
Yeah, I wish they had found a way to shave off a good 500.... oh well, I don't mind brute force either.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:48 PM   #9
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Interesting, I've always thought they hated the Camaro, with as much as they love bashing it...

I dig the line-up pics though... looks cool having all 3 of them side-by-side.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:49 PM   #10
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Another mullet comment. I'd like to take a poll in this site how many here have ever had a mullet.
I think this poll is for current hair styles http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27402
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:50 PM   #11
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I think they only "hate" the Camaro because they think they're supposed to actually. See mullet comment.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:53 PM   #12
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Favorite quote:

Quote:
Wert: **
Dear federal government, please never let the current LX platform spawn another model with the exact same blank, flat, plastic interior design we've seen since the 300C first rolled off the Brampton assembly line in 2004. The seats however, and rear room, are divine. Your taxpaying friend, Ray.
And I hardly see this as import bias. Those claiming that just don't want to hear about legitimate criticisms of their car. The Camaro isn't perfect. Deal with it. Accept it. They still liked it, so let it go. Yes, out in the rest of the automotive world there is more to life than blasting down the quarter mile and cruising down a flat, straight Main Street. Good automotive journalists will reflect that.

And yes, the weight is being brought up because the weight is a big problem. It hurts acceleration, handling, steering feel, braking, fuel economy, and transitioning. The related bulk of the car also hurts visibility, nimbleness, and every-day usability and parking ease. Amazing how many aspects of the car can be fixed by giving it reasonable weight. A mid-size sporty coupe in 2009 should not weight 3,900 lbs. It is as simple as that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDustiNN View Post
Interesting, I've always thought they hated the Camaro, with as much as they love bashing it...
Correction: one reviewer on their staff hated it, and the second opinion largely opposed his negative one. It was specifically stated in their original Camaro review that the extreme negative opinion was the minority on their staff.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:55 PM   #13
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Man that was a Chevy biased review

its Obvious gm paid them


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Old 06-24-2009, 06:59 PM   #14
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Another mullet comment. I'd like to take a poll in this site how many here have ever had a mullet.
The heft of the Camaro is sure getting a lot of comments.
Whos gonna admit to ever having a mullet. I will never admit it. I mean UHH I never had one!!!
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:05 PM   #15
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And I hardly see this as import bias. Those claiming that just don't want to hear about legitimate criticisms of their car. The Camaro isn't perfect. Deal with it. Accept it. They still liked it, so let it go. Yes, out in the rest of the automotive world there is more to life than blasting down the quarter mile and cruising down a flat, straight Main Street. Good automotive journalists will reflect that.
Should have clarified although I thought this would be obvious, Jalopnik generally has an import bias IMO... not necessarily in this review as it's a piece on domestics.

All opinion, as is their review. Deal with it. Accept it.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:08 PM   #16
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that gold color
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:12 PM   #17
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I never had much respect for Jalopnik. A bunch of opinionated amateurs with a sufficiently large reader-base to justify sending cars to them for testing and reviewing purposes.

I'm happy the Camaro won...but this article was crap. The process was flawed, and the reviewers were giving night+day comments on the same car in a few of the categories...are they kidding?!

I can accept a few characteristics that the less...."flexible" folks out there may dislike. But explain to me two things (don't really...just think about it)....

-----
#1: Why did they keep harping and badgering on about the Camaro's size, and "how its fenders flared out from around a Honda -- give me a f'n break) when the Mustang...is no more than an inch smaller in any direction!?!?

-----
#2: Why they kept belaboring the Camaro about how heavy and fat and *insert bs statement here (*-more on this below)* it was....when they only mentioned it in passing that the Challenger weighs a almost 300 pounds MORE than that!?!?!

They were pigeon-holing the car into a classification that it doesn't fit into: the simple "Muscle Car". This reflected in many comments: "for a muscle car", "among muscle cars", etc...

I came away from that read, convinced they went into this with every intention of tearing the Camaro down...for whatever reason, these people have had very little good to say about the car since it's conception at NAIAS 2006. It's blatantly obvious, and unprofessional (which is half the reason they're still the amateurs of the car-site/mag community).

Again, I'm glad the Camaro won 1st place; a position I think it deserves unquestionably, But this 'commentary' was a waste of bandwidth, imo.

*short word on weight: name another midsized car that, for 30k (or more for that matter), has a 400+ hp V8, RWD, 4 seats, an IRS, and doesn't weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 3700-3900 lbs. Name a legitimate example, and you can call the Camaro "fat"......
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:46 PM   #18
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The Krewson guy was clearly biased toward the stang. Why? Because every time he had something to say about the Camaro, his stars didn't refelct it, it was always 3 or 4. However, when he made similiiar statements about the Mustang, even with more negative comments, it'd get more stars than the Camaro. What gives? I've never really been a big fan of jalopnik, don't seem too objective, but I guess that's the name of the game.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:47 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by edbrick View Post
Whos gonna admit to ever having a mullet. I will never admit it. I mean UHH I never had one!!!
Well, people like Billy Ray Cyrus have to admit it, seeing as how there's photographic evidence and all....

On topic though, while all three have their appeal seperately, looking at the three cars side-by-side like in the photos it's really apparent how far away the Camaro is styling-wise from its rivals. On one side you have the Dodge Challenger with its wide-eyed, almost happy looking blank stare which makes it seem like it was ripped straight from the movie Cars. On the other side the Mustang looks almost plain, possibly because of the fact that it is nearly the same look we've seen all over the road (and I mean ALL OVER) since 2005. Then in the middle is that glaring, border-line psychopathic stare of the Camaro, which in the darker picture looks like it's ready to eat the other two alive. Now, granted I have an obvious Camaro/GM bias but I don't even see how there's a contest between the looks of the three.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:54 PM   #20
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I never had much respect for Jalopnik. A bunch of opinionated amateurs with a sufficiently large reader-base to justify sending cars to them for testing and reviewing purposes.

I'm happy the Camaro won...but this article was crap. The process was flawed, and the reviewers were giving night+day comments on the same car in a few of the categories...are they kidding?!

I can accept a few characteristics that the less...."flexible" folks out there may dislike. But explain to me two things (don't really...just think about it)....

-----
#1: Why did they keep harping and badgering on about the Camaro's size, and "how its fenders flared out from around a Honda -- give me a f'n break) when the Mustang...is no more than an inch smaller in any direction!?!?

-----
#2: Why they kept belaboring the Camaro about how heavy and fat and *insert bs statement here (*-more on this below)* it was....when they only mentioned it in passing that the Challenger weighs a almost 300 pounds MORE than that!?!?!

They were pigeon-holing the car into a classification that it doesn't fit into: the simple "Muscle Car". This reflected in many comments: "for a muscle car", "among muscle cars", etc...

I came away from that read, convinced they went into this with every intention of tearing the Camaro down...for whatever reason, these people have had very little good to say about the car since it's conception at NAIAS 2006. It's blatantly obvious, and unprofessional (which is half the reason they're still the amateurs of the car-site/mag community).

Again, I'm glad the Camaro won 1st place; a position it I think deserves unquestionably, But this 'commentary' was a waste of bandwidth, imo.

*short word on weight: name another midsized car that, for 30k (or more for that matter), has a 400+ hp V8, RWD, 4 seats, an IRS, and doesn't weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 3700-3900 lbs. Name a legitimate example, and you can call the Camaro "fat"......


Left: Jalopnik. Right: Dragoneye.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
I never had much respect for Jalopnik. *snip*

Again, I'm glad the Camaro won 1st place; a position I think it deserves unquestionably, But this 'commentary' was a waste of bandwidth, imo.

*short word on weight: name another midsized car that, for 30k (or more for that matter), has a 400+ hp V8, RWD, 4 seats, an IRS, and doesn't weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 3700-3900 lbs. Name a legitimate example, and you can call the Camaro "fat"......
Totally took the words out of my mouth.
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Old 06-25-2009, 04:07 PM   #22
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I hate how you must pay extra to get the Challenger in manual, and how you also have to pay to have the stripe removed.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:45 PM   #23
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Another mullet comment. I'd like to take a poll in this site how many here have ever had a mullet.
The heft of the Camaro is sure getting a lot of comments.
Never had a mullet.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:50 PM   #24
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I hate how you must pay extra to get the Challenger in manual, and how you also have to pay to have the stripe removed.
Bingo.



One of the main reasons I didn't buy an SRT8. Well, that plus the back end of the STR8 ...
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:53 PM   #25
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Never had a mullet.
Old thread.
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