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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 03-11-2013, 07:06 PM   #51
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Even the rims on the top pic are different
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:48 PM   #52
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I agree with the first half of your comment, but why don't we need the ZL1 when GM's biggest competitor has a model it competes with?
...markets are downsizing because of tighter market shares and economic downturn reasons. Same as the simple explaination is that we don't have 6 divisions or so of products anymore, and 16 color options., That old model does not work. WE know the ZL1 morphed form the initial intent of resurecting the Z/28. Let's get back to the face of Chevy and basics, who really cares about a ZL1? How long has it been made? It's a replacement for the iconic GM muscle car...why carry a halo performer in the Camaro lineup other than Z/28? What impact has it to anyone who knows anything about what if was in the past and any meaning it has it has to us now? Can the limited market share<and price> be sustained over time? It's a 100th year of Chevy tip of the hat product design that Chevy can showcase... and they can do this thing whenever they see fit. It's here, they did it, better off retiring it, and moving forward with the Z/28 only I say. And make it what they wanted it to be before the economic collapse.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:27 PM   #53
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...markets are downsizing because of tighter market shares and economic downturn reasons. Same as the simple explaination is that we don't have 6 divisions or so of products anymore, and 16 color options., That old model does not work. WE know the ZL1 morphed form the initial intent of resurecting the Z/28. Let's get back to the face of Chevy and basics, who really cares about a ZL1? How long has it been made? It's a replacement for the iconic GM muscle car...why carry a halo performer in the Camaro lineup other than Z/28? What impact has it to anyone who knows anything about what if was in the past and any meaning it has it has to us now? Can the limited market share<and price> be sustained over time? It's a 100th year of Chevy tip of the hat product design that Chevy can showcase... and they can do this thing whenever they see fit. It's here, they did it, better off retiring it, and moving forward with the Z/28 only I say. And make it what they wanted it to be before the economic collapse.
So you think Chevy should give up on the supercharged Camaro vs supercharged Mustang and focus only on the Z/28 as the top Camaro? I think we mostly agree on supercharging not belonging on the Z/28 or the ZL1 would still be a Z/28. For the future Z/28 to dominate as it should, GM would have to abandon giving the Camaro the lesser engines and share engines directly with the Z06. If the LT series is truly capable of delivering a 600 HP N/A 7.0 liter and drop that in the lighter, alpha based 6th gen, that would decimate plenty of competition, domestic or high priced import. The big issue is I just don't see GM doing that. The Corvette is the halo car and will always be separated from the pack.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:10 AM   #54
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This "he said, she said" regarding "Corvette engine" usage belies one always-in-play FACT: Put the same engine in a 3900 lb vehicle and it will NOT outperform a 3200 lb vehicle, all other things being similar, which of course they're not...

It was the same at Ford when the 540 hp engine was used in the far-superior (dynamically) GT chassis than in the GT 500 Stang. GT outran the bigger/heavier/less-dynamic Stang...and so would the Vette. By its very nature, the Vette maintains a certain performance superiority over the Camaro...

The GT 500 is on a par, now, with the mid-decade GT only because of an extra 100+ hp...and improved GY tires.

Try that recipe on the 1SS/1LE Gen-5 Camaro with LS7 motor-vation and Michelin Pilot SS or Cup tires...and then watch the competition cringe!
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:14 AM   #55
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what he said^
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:04 PM   #56
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There is going to be a blue with white striped car at New York with a motor we currently don't have available in it..
Let's hope it looks very similar to this

If it does....I have a big decision to make !

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Old 03-12-2013, 02:27 PM   #57
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have a feeling it will be the z28 ss.. like before
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:22 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
This "he said, she said" regarding "Corvette engine" usage belies one always-in-play FACT: Put the same engine in a 3900 lb vehicle and it will NOT outperform a 3200 lb vehicle, all other things being similar, which of course they're not...

It was the same at Ford when the 540 hp engine was used in the far-superior (dynamically) GT chassis than in the GT 500 Stang. GT outran the bigger/heavier/less-dynamic Stang...and so would the Vette. By its very nature, the Vette maintains a certain performance superiority over the Camaro...

The GT 500 is on a par, now, with the mid-decade GT only because of an extra 100+ hp...and improved GY tires.

Try that recipe on the 1SS/1LE Gen-5 Camaro with LS7 motor-vation and Michelin Pilot SS or Cup tires...and then watch the competition cringe!
I understand that entirely and have said it many times but, and this is the key, if we know that, then GM knows that. So why haven't they used the high peformance Corvette engines in the Camaro in any recent cars?
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:00 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
...markets are downsizing because of tighter market shares and economic downturn reasons. Same as the simple explaination is that we don't have 6 divisions or so of products anymore, and 16 color options., That old model does not work. WE know the ZL1 morphed form the initial intent of resurecting the Z/28. Let's get back to the face of Chevy and basics, who really cares about a ZL1? How long has it been made? It's a replacement for the iconic GM muscle car...why carry a halo performer in the Camaro lineup other than Z/28? What impact has it to anyone who knows anything about what if was in the past and any meaning it has it has to us now? Can the limited market share<and price> be sustained over time? It's a 100th year of Chevy tip of the hat product design that Chevy can showcase... and they can do this thing whenever they see fit. It's here, they did it, better off retiring it, and moving forward with the Z/28 only I say. And make it what they wanted it to be before the economic collapse.
Yes, it's much less expensive to offer more options for a car than to add another car or a whole other division selling the same car restyled, but under a different name. So I beg to differ adding more available optioning to the Camaro will only inflate the customer base and profits not the cost.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:01 PM   #60
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have a feeling it will be the z28 ss.. like before
Not a chance.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:57 PM   #61
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I understand that entirely and have said it many times but, and this is the key, if we know that, then GM knows that. So why haven't they used the high peformance Corvette engines in the Camaro in any recent cars?
Cost. LS7 and LS9 are handbuilt and and were developed to be in higher priced Z06 and ZR1. The LSA is mass produced with less exotic materials and developed to be used in lower priced applications. To compete in the market at the Camaro price point has thusfar precluded GM from using the handbuilt premium Corvette engines.

That isn't to say they couldn't but it would likely mean cutting out profit or building the car at a loss or raising the price out of the it's target market or even removing some of the cost from the engine.

Lot's of options. None have been done yet.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:23 AM   #62
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Cost. LS7 and LS9 are handbuilt and and were developed to be in higher priced Z06 and ZR1. The LSA is mass produced with less exotic materials and developed to be used in lower priced applications. To compete in the market at the Camaro price point has thusfar precluded GM from using the handbuilt premium Corvette engines.

That isn't to say they couldn't but it would likely mean cutting out profit or building the car at a loss or raising the price out of the it's target market or even removing some of the cost from the engine.

Lot's of options. None have been done yet.
I agree completely. It was more or less a rhetorical question.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:27 AM   #63
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Cost. LS7 and LS9 are handbuilt and and were developed to be in higher priced Z06 and ZR1. The LSA is mass produced with less exotic materials and developed to be used in lower priced applications. To compete in the market at the Camaro price point has thusfar precluded GM from using the handbuilt premium Corvette engines.

That isn't to say they couldn't but it would likely mean cutting out profit or building the car at a loss or raising the price out of the it's target market or even removing some of the cost from the engine.

Lot's of options. None have been done yet.
This is still part of the reason I am against the LS7 in the Camaro. Price..little guys like me being able to afford one. It should not be possible for a supercharged engine (LSA) to cost less than a NA engine(LS7) Sure it would be a fun car, you could have big boy bragging rights to say you have a 7.0L engine in your car, but seriously adding at least 10K to the Camaro is just insane. You get a ton more bang for your buck modding 10k worth of stuff to your car starting with a 1LE base.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:47 AM   #64
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This is still part of the reason I am against the LS7 in the Camaro. Price..little guys like me being able to afford one. It should not be possible for a supercharged engine (LSA) to cost less than a NA engine(LS7) Sure it would be a fun car, you could have big boy bragging rights to say you have a 7.0L engine in your car, but seriously adding at least 10K to the Camaro is just insane. You get a ton more bang for your buck modding 10k worth of stuff to your car starting with a 1LE base.
The LSA is built on a production line while the LS7 is hand built.

What would you choose to power the Z/28?
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:48 AM   #65
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out of the engines in the currently available, the LS7 is the only one that makes sense.

Even if they don't call it a Z/28 the more I think about there being a 427 Camaro available just sounds bad ass hahaha.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:55 AM   #66
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I want the motor that I know GM is playing around with in some little room in an undisclosed place. I look at it this way, the LLT/LFX is roughly rated at 87 HP/L , I am holding my breath for the same formula 5.3L DI 6700-7k rev limit engine for "my" Z/28. Knowing that it has been reported that the LT1 is compared to the torqyiness of the LS7, due to in part of the DI, I don't see going backwards being a good idea
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:14 PM   #67
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Your DIV8 will happen for the Gen6 but I really see zero chance for GM to put a DIV8 into the gen5 espcially one making almost the same power as the LS3/L99 that your 5.3L will have. Just my opinion plus the fact that what little leaked info we have confirms all the unofficial info we have...LS7! Only question is will it be tagged a Z28 and what other goodies come with it. We will know in 2 weeks.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:19 PM   #68
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I want the motor that I know GM is playing around with in some little room in an undisclosed place. I look at it this way, the LLT/LFX is roughly rated at 87 HP/L , I am holding my breath for the same formula 5.3L DI 6700-7k rev limit engine for "my" Z/28. Knowing that it has been reported that the LT1 is compared to the torqyiness of the LS7, due to in part of the DI, I don't see going backwards being a good idea
You won't see the gen 5 small block in the refreshed 5th gen Camaro. It would probably keep the LS3/LSA.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:37 PM   #69
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yeah no biggie, that's alll I am saying..the LS7 is too big and too expensive for a Z/28(track ready, poor mans race car)..just call it the LS7 just like the concept pictures and I am happy with that.
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Old 03-13-2013, 01:14 PM   #70
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that's all I am saying..the LS7 is too big
How so?

Physically, LS7 is the same size as the LS3. Avoir du pois, same as LS3 if "wet-sumped".

Only driveline issue for a 1LE-based version, in my mind (besides adding ZL1 6-piston front Brembos), is adding the HD ZL1 or CTS-V rear diff. center section...which, by itself before other "possible adjustments", adds less than 30 lb...in the rear (better balance). And adding Michelin PSS/Cup non-run-flats would offset the bigger front brakes' weight in total.

Throw in a pair of 1LS non-powered grippy cloth seats, and you're very close to weight-neutral...with a composite vented hood.

Pricing (again):

Is it fair/proper to assume GM makes about the same money on an LS3 crate engine as they make on an LS7 crate engine? If so, substitute the mass-mechandised price differential of $7,000. Now add some cert/val costs.

Now add the mass-merchandised price differential for the Brembos (6-piston + 2-piece rotors vs. 4-piston) of less than $1,000.

The deletion of the dual 6-ways ($800 @ MSRP, or $400 each) pays for the hood...

A distinguishing grille (they have several to choose from in-house)...and "hold" the graphix (afaic)...

Now, 1SS/1LE + cert/val LS7 + HD Carrier + 6-piston Brembos + 1LS seats + vented composite hood = same Margin @ "under $50,000".

Conclusion:

Call it whatever you want...but "hold" the badges/stripes/embroidered seats/mats on mine.

Black-on-Black, please.

...and my VISA number ends in 002-short...
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:06 PM   #71
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BTW, for those interested in building/having a Gen-5 Camaro with an LS7, I think I found a donor engine...

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2013/...in-california/
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:02 PM   #72
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yeah no biggie, that's alll I am saying..the LS7 is too big and too expensive for a Z/28(track ready, poor mans race car)..just call it the LS7 just like the concept pictures and I am happy with that.
LS7 too big for a Z/28? How so, physical dimensions it's the same as an LS3. Displacement? With no race series limitation, I have no problem with the LS7 displacement for a Z/28. Too expensive? There are likely ways that a significant part of the price difference could be addressed, perhaps an LS7 not completely "hand built", as well I think the in-house price differential is not as high as the crate engine differential. I do not see another suitable, immediately available engine in the Chevrolet lineup at present. When some videos surfaced of LS7 Camaros, listening to them run certainly gave off the correct sounds to my ears for a high performance Z/28!
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:21 PM   #73
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GM needs a car for the LS7 to replace the Z06 otherwise the plant won't be able to affordably make LS7s. There was information posted somewhere around here that showed how many engines they make and that the void would clearly upsetl LS7 production unless it finds a new home.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:47 PM   #74
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GM needs a car for the LS7 to replace the Z06 otherwise the plant won't be able to affordably make LS7s. There was information posted somewhere around here that showed how many engines they make and that the void would clearly upsetl LS7 production unless it finds a new home.
Why would they continue to produce an engine they don't use? If that's the case, where is the LS9 going next?
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:02 PM   #75
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Yeah it was said somewhere 30 engines a week..I know they don't sell that many corvettes, so I am sure they have a boatload of them on a warehouse! I don't mean too big as in size, we all know the LS-series are all the same size dimensions. What I have been trying to say, is the original Z/28's were purpose built, just because there isn't a racing circuit with displacement limitations, doesn't mean that GM shouldn't want to return to their roots as ford did and hook us up with an equaling engine. I know I know, wishful thinking, but I want to be inspired again, not turned upside down and shaken violently for every penny I have earned just to drive one..then after paying the good 'ol gov't heir chunk for the gas guzzler tax, pay every week at the pump just to take it around the block. I don't want a 50k garage queen, I want to be able to enjoy the car!
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