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Old 04-03-2013, 01:37 PM   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21 View Post
[/B]

You are an enthusiast that was lucky enough to be able to see the development of Camaro and rub elbows with the big shots. You of all would not dare to ever say anything negative about the Camaro or you would be history. You can make suggestions but you can't ever say anything after the fact or you would never be invited back.

I don't have that problem. I don't have to worry about what I say and can give an honest opinion if I don't like something. You can't. I totally understand now. That is ok...I see where you are coming from. I would bite my tongue to if I were in your shoes so I could continue to see the car I love go through it's design phases and get invited to the big show.

Thank you. Now that I know the real story I feel better.

Sales will tell if they did good. I will hold my 2013 until the next change.
Sorry -- been tied up and have not been able to read thru this thread -- but wanted to respond when I can.

Yup -- watched Lopez myself and you are right.

On the other hand - no - I'm not quiet and I'm outspoken and I have been outspoken at GM for 36 years.
Did it affect promotions? I'm sure it probably did at one time or another.......that's human nature and it happens in most, if not all big companies.

A 'lil story:

One day in 2001 I was driving to the office very early in the morning - (I even remember the car - a Bright Rally Red Camaro SS - )
......and WWJ radio suddenly was reporting that Bob Lutz was coming back to General Motors. (he'd worked for GM for a time in the early 60s...)

I'm not kidding - I very nearly pulled off the road and did backflips!

I think he's a genius. I don't agree with everything he says, but in the grand scheme of the Automobile Industry? I'd put him in the top ten people of all time..........

A week later I sent him an email along the lines of:

"...DELIGHTED that you're back at GM -- and I can hardly wait to see what you have in mind....... "

......yada yada yada..............

".......and I hope I'll never again have to apologize for the passion I have for our products.........."



Fast forward to three weeks later:

I'm in a hotel room in Las Vegas at a Press event - it's like 1am (4am Detroit time) - and I hear a 'bing!' as another email hits my inbox.......

Hmmmmm......wonder who that migh-----...BOB LUTZ!!!!! WHOA!....

The note was pure Bob........

...".....been a bit busy getting settled with Product Planning and Engineering.........wanted to get back to you..".

...yada yada yada........

"........don't you ever apologize for Passion....because without passion, we cannot have the greatest products and without the greatest products we cannot win..........and I don't plan on losing!.."


That's what I loved about him......passion - AND....the ability to listen to those of us who are (as Peter DeLorenzo calls us) "The True Believers"......far down the ladder, so to speak.........

Perhaps I was lucky - I got "invited back" over the years......I also made some enemies, but on the other hand, I wasn't running for Mayor.

...and it also helped that I didn't have children that I had to worry about sending to college......

Anyway - glad you're here - and I hope you'll see the car in person and perhaps that it'll grow on you!

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Old 04-03-2013, 01:44 PM   #402
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A-Bird...a pic of '67 Impala t-lites would be cool...I see those in the '14...lol...I like 'em...
Wow -- funny you should say that - because the first full-sized clay was under construction and they'd just finished claying in the rear fascia and tail-lamps - and the first thing I thought of was "wow - reminds me of the '67 Impala" -- yet in the art renderings, I was reminded of the 1969 Camaro tail-lamps.

Oh - and for what it's worth? Let's not forget that the tail-lamps wrapped around the back of the Camaro from 1974 on - until the 5th gen.......
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:49 PM   #403
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[QUOTE=SilverSurfer21;6369679]
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Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post

LOL Please tell me...what car (European) did they get the design Qs from??? Who ever wrote that article is full of you know what. I like how they are rewriting history to make a story. (not saying you did) You are an innocent bystander in this and honestly came across this article and you think it is gospel. The guy that wrote this was a young kid back then and his dad had a Chevy dealership. That makes him an expert!??? Ha Ha Ha. I was an engineer for GM and personally know the history of the Camaro. It was my first Factory car I ever bought. 1973! It was NOT influenced at all from Europe. This guy is hilarious! The article is not at all factual however.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you read it. I am not knocking you. You have to put things into prospective and look who is writing the articles that you quote though.

uhmmmmm........you may want to go back and read some of the articles from late winter of 1969/70--- and you might want to talk with some of the designers on the 2nd gen Fcar-- no question it reflected European influence and that was the intention.

Just as some can't quite see a 'Ferrari' (circa that time) in the 1955 Chevy grille - others can......
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:58 PM   #404
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uhmmmmm........you may want to go back and read some of the articles from late winter of 1969/70--- and you might want to talk with some of the designers on the 2nd gen Fcar-- no question it reflected European influence and that was the intention.

Just as some can't quite see a 'Ferrari' (circa that time) in the 1955 Chevy grille - others can......
Could you fix the quote because Silversurfer21 made that statement not me.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:00 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by Z/284ever View Post
Hey Scott, hope you and the team got my thank you note.
Yes - we did - and YOU are one of the people who we had in mind with the new Z/28. (...as you well know!)

Thank you for "keeping the faith" -

(...and another quick story - My phone rang in the office in early 1997 -and it was Z/284ever - I still don't know exactly how he got my number - but we talked - and he told me EXACTLY what he wanted in a Z/28. We couldn't very well do much about it with the 4th gen by that time - but I never forgot his thoughts -

..... and for those of us who were around in 1967 -
...well...

- just like "Pepperidge Farm" - WE REMEMBER!
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:09 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21 View Post
LOL Please tell me...what car (European) did they get the design Qs from??? Who ever wrote that article is full of you know what. I like how they are rewriting history to make a story. (not saying you did) You are an innocent bystander in this and honestly came across this article and you think it is gospel. The guy that wrote this was a young kid back then and his dad had a Chevy dealership. That makes him an expert!??? Ha Ha Ha. I was an engineer for GM and personally know the history of the Camaro. It was my first Factory car I ever bought. 1973! It was NOT influenced at all from Europe. This guy is hilarious! The article is not at all factual however.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you read it. I am not knocking you. You have to put things into prospective and look who is writing the articles that you quote though.


uhmmmmm........you may want to go back and read some of the articles from late winter of 1969/70--- and you might want to talk with some of the designers on the 2nd gen Fcar-- no question it reflected European influence and that was the intention.

Just as some can't quite see a 'Ferrari' (circa that time) in the 1955 Chevy grille - others can......
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:09 PM   #407
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Could you fix the quote because Silversurfer21 made that statement not me.
Done.

Sorry!
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:12 PM   #408
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Done.

Sorry!
That's ok, I don't know how the quotes got messed up...
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:50 PM   #409
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A-Bird...a pic of '67 Impala t-lites would be cool...I see those in the '14...lol...I like 'em...
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Wow -- funny you should say that - because..the first thing I thought of was "wow - reminds me of the '67 Impala" --
Aw, shucks...well you know that "Great minds think alike."......lol.....

j/k!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A gentleman from GM in one of those interviews, described the tail-lights as ..."60's inspired, with a contemporary look..."

Any way, as they do wrap around now, I thought the red running light on the quarter panel could go bye-bye...clean that area up...It's kind of close to the wrap-around, and if the new one was reflective, lit on the side, the old stand alone one wouldn't be necessary...dunno...
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:03 PM   #410
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Fbod, any info on the 2014 1LE you care to share? Like is it still gonna have a hood wrap with the new hood?
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:38 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Sorry -- been tied up and have not been able to read thru this thread -- but wanted to respond when I can.

Yup -- watched Lopez myself and you are right.

On the other hand - no - I'm not quiet and I'm outspoken and I have been outspoken at GM for 36 years.
Did it affect promotions? I'm sure it probably did at one time or another.......that's human nature and it happens in most, if not all big companies.

A 'lil story:

One day in 2001 I was driving to the office very early in the morning - (I even remember the car - a Bright Rally Red Camaro SS - )
......and WWJ radio suddenly was reporting that Bob Lutz was coming back to General Motors. (he'd worked for GM for a time in the early 60s...)

I'm not kidding - I very nearly pulled off the road and did backflips!

I think he's a genius. I don't agree with everything he says, but in the grand scheme of the Automobile Industry? I'd put him in the top ten people of all time..........

A week later I sent him an email along the lines of:

"...DELIGHTED that you're back at GM -- and I can hardly wait to see what you have in mind....... "

......yada yada yada..............

".......and I hope I'll never again have to apologize for the passion I have for our products.........."



Fast forward to three weeks later:

I'm in a hotel room in Las Vegas at a Press event - it's like 1am (4am Detroit time) - and I hear a 'bing!' as another email hits my inbox.......

Hmmmmm......wonder who that migh-----...BOB LUTZ!!!!! WHOA!....

The note was pure Bob........

...".....been a bit busy getting settled with Product Planning and Engineering.........wanted to get back to you..".

...yada yada yada........

"........don't you ever apologize for Passion....because without passion, we cannot have the greatest products and without the greatest products we cannot win..........and I don't plan on losing!.."


That's what I loved about him......passion - AND....the ability to listen to those of us who are (as Peter DeLorenzo calls us) "The True Believers"......far down the ladder, so to speak.........

Perhaps I was lucky - I got "invited back" over the years......I also made some enemies, but on the other hand, I wasn't running for Mayor.

...and it also helped that I didn't have children that I had to worry about sending to college......

Anyway - glad you're here - and I hope you'll see the car in person and perhaps that it'll grow on you!

"........don't you ever apologize for Passion....because without passion, we cannot have the greatest products and without the greatest products we cannot win..........and I don't plan on losing!.."


A wonderful statement.
I'm gonna remember that one.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:53 PM   #412
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Yes - we did - and YOU are one of the people who we had in mind with the new Z/28. (...as you well know!)

Thank you for "keeping the faith" -

(...and another quick story - My phone rang in the office in early 1997 -and it was Z/284ever - I still don't know exactly how he got my number - but we talked - and he told me EXACTLY what he wanted in a Z/28. We couldn't very well do much about it with the 4th gen by that time - but I never forgot his thoughts -

..... and for those of us who were around in 1967 -
...well...

- just like "Pepperidge Farm" - WE REMEMBER!
How did I get your number? Ha! I'm very crafty, my friend.

I asked Russ C. for a ride in the Z/28. We'll see what happens.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:04 AM   #413
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this cant be right, someone is lying, or just wrong

so the v6 is getting more power, these numbers def have to be wrong then (0-60 wise.) if it is making 355, idk what torque or gearing, but.. i mean.. lol come on gm ... we get it

http://youtu.be/Br8DmIlbRrA?
t=4m

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Old 04-04-2013, 07:05 AM   #414
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Anyway - glad you're here - and I hope you'll see the car in person and perhaps that it'll grow on you!

If something has to grow on you, then you never really liked in the first place. First impressions are what counts in design and appeal.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:46 AM   #415
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I've never been a fan of the Camaros until the 5th gen. I remember playing Project Gotham Racing on xbox when I was young, and I always used the Camaro (4th gen) because it was the best car I had, but I felt it was the ugliest. Recently, I have also fell in love with the 1st gen, everything in between, not so much.

As far as this one goes, I'm not a huge fan either. I don't think it's "ruined" like some people say, but the redesign will probably keep the sales above Mustang. I don't like the new narrow grill, I think it looks odd and it makes the headlights look weird. I do like the new square fog lights though. As far as the tails go, I think they're great. A good throw back to the 69, and they look great with the LEDs.

Call me crazy, but one of my favorite features about cars is the headlights and taillights. I loved BMW when they were the only ones with halos, and then when the R8 came out I fell in love with the Audis with the LEDs. I even put LED strips on my G5, they looked great. Even though the new Camaro still have the halos, I just don't think they look as good with the new grill.

Speaking of the G5.... when I bought that car I had the opportunity to get a slightly used 2010 Camaro 1LT RS. I sat in it, and hated the interior. I hated the gauges, and I thought the steering wheel was terrible. When I was looking for a new car again in 2012, my sister talked me into looking at Camaros for giggles. I sat in a 2LT and said holy crap, this it. I loved the new steering wheel (yeah, I'm one of those guys) and the new dashboard. Then I got to drive one and the only thing I talked about on the test drive was the HUD.

I hope when I do get to see this car in person, it will change my mind. I want to love this car, but I just can't. I love the car I have, and my intention is to keep it forever. Thanks for all the hard work that went into making it.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:03 PM   #416
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so the v6 is getting more power, these numbers def have to be wrong then (0-60 wise.) if it is making 355, idk what torque or gearing, but.. i mean.. lol come on gm ... we get it

http://youtu.be/Br8DmIlbRrA?
t=4m

That story was a April fools prank that guy fell for. It was even on the motor trend website saying it was an April fools joke. I think the current V6 has a 0-60 time of 6.4 seconds....that alone should have thrown a flag up.

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/04/ent...style.html?m=1
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:40 PM   #417
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Fbod, any info on the 2014 1LE you care to share? Like is it still gonna have a hood wrap with the new hood?
Info out shortly.
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:43 PM   #418
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If something has to grow on you, then you never really liked in the first place. First impressions are what counts in design and appeal.
If I had a dime for every person who saw a new Camaro model for the first time who didn't like it - and then loved it -- I could retire.

That may be the case with you - but I respectfully disagree because I know of many thousands who would also disagree with you.
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:44 PM   #419
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thanks for the invite to the unveiling, i see how it is
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:46 PM   #420
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If something has to grow on you, then you never really liked in the first place. First impressions are what counts in design and appeal.
I have a perfect example for you!

The first time I set foot on Long Island? I HATED IT!

....and then I moved to Port Jefferson - for two years - and I loved Long Island (.......all except for the taxes and traffic........)
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:16 PM   #421
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Bob Lutz

A week later I sent him an email along the lines of:

"...DELIGHTED that you're back at GM -- and I can hardly wait to see what you have in mind....... "

......yada yada yada..............

".......and I hope I'll never again have to apologize for the passion I have for our products.........."

The note was pure Bob........

...".....been a bit busy getting settled with Product Planning and Engineering.........wanted to get back to you..".

...yada yada yada........

"........don't you ever apologize for Passion....because without passion, we cannot have the greatest products and without the greatest products we cannot win..........and I don't plan on losing!.."


That's what I loved about him......passion - AND....the ability to listen to those of us who are (as Peter DeLorenzo calls us) "The True Believers"......far down the ladder, so to speak.........


Bob Lutz, PDL, Scott Settlemire, Barry Meguiar (Mr. Car Crazy) and more than a few other folks (including the diehards in the now-ancient Z/28 Section, here) ALL share a commonality..."PASSION" for "things-automotive".

Sunoco 260, solid lifters, sky-high redlines, AND rumbly tailpipes were/are their (our) CIALIS...

If cut, Mobil 1 escapes...

AGAIN, it's something you either "get"...or, you don't...
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:20 PM   #422
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Let me introduce the family……….

>323 horsepower LS and LT

>400 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS/1LE

>580 horsepower ZL1

And the new Camaro Z/28…….
Working at a automotive plant for over 16 years i have got to know some car enthusiasts. We were talking about the new Z/28 and one thing we all agreed on was the Z28 makes a lot more sense in placement of the affordable 1LE and that making a 70-80k Z/28 for the rich only doesn't make much sense. What is your opinion on this.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:20 PM   #423
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If I had a dime for every person who saw a new Camaro model for the first time who didn't like it - and then loved it -- I could retire.

That may be the case with you - but I respectfully disagree because I know of many thousands who would also disagree with you.
Agreed. The taillights are already growing on me but I would like to see them in person. I also felt the same way initially on the 45th stripes but now I own one.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:35 PM   #424
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- just like "Pepperidge Farm" - WE REMEMBER!
BTW, "Zeke" enjoyed the COPO they received... I have a snap of good ol' #43, staring me in the face...
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:52 PM   #425
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If something has to grow on you, then you never really liked in the first place. First impressions are what counts in design and appeal.
Well, that is true. But that doesn't mean you can't have a change of heart. Only one faux pas I've never been to shake is the mail slot on the 10-13 SS. It wasn't a dealbreaker though, but it's not my choice for top design coolness.

You know it's not your cup of tea if it NEVER grows on you.
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