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Old 04-04-2013, 02:16 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Bob Lutz

A week later I sent him an email along the lines of:

"...DELIGHTED that you're back at GM -- and I can hardly wait to see what you have in mind....... "

......yada yada yada..............

".......and I hope I'll never again have to apologize for the passion I have for our products.........."

The note was pure Bob........

...".....been a bit busy getting settled with Product Planning and Engineering.........wanted to get back to you..".

...yada yada yada........

"........don't you ever apologize for Passion....because without passion, we cannot have the greatest products and without the greatest products we cannot win..........and I don't plan on losing!.."


That's what I loved about him......passion - AND....the ability to listen to those of us who are (as Peter DeLorenzo calls us) "The True Believers"......far down the ladder, so to speak.........


Bob Lutz, PDL, Scott Settlemire, Barry Meguiar (Mr. Car Crazy) and more than a few other folks (including the diehards in the now-ancient Z/28 Section, here) ALL share a commonality..."PASSION" for "things-automotive".

Sunoco 260, solid lifters, sky-high redlines, AND rumbly tailpipes were/are their (our) CIALIS...

If cut, Mobil 1 escapes...

AGAIN, it's something you either "get"...or, you don't...
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:20 PM   #422
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Let me introduce the family……….

>323 horsepower LS and LT

>400 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS/1LE

>580 horsepower ZL1

And the new Camaro Z/28…….
Working at a automotive plant for over 16 years i have got to know some car enthusiasts. We were talking about the new Z/28 and one thing we all agreed on was the Z28 makes a lot more sense in placement of the affordable 1LE and that making a 70-80k Z/28 for the rich only doesn't make much sense. What is your opinion on this.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:20 PM   #423
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If I had a dime for every person who saw a new Camaro model for the first time who didn't like it - and then loved it -- I could retire.

That may be the case with you - but I respectfully disagree because I know of many thousands who would also disagree with you.
Agreed. The taillights are already growing on me but I would like to see them in person. I also felt the same way initially on the 45th stripes but now I own one.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:35 PM   #424
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- just like "Pepperidge Farm" - WE REMEMBER!
BTW, "Zeke" enjoyed the COPO they received... I have a snap of good ol' #43, staring me in the face...
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:52 PM   #425
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If something has to grow on you, then you never really liked in the first place. First impressions are what counts in design and appeal.
Well, that is true. But that doesn't mean you can't have a change of heart. Only one faux pas I've never been to shake is the mail slot on the 10-13 SS. It wasn't a dealbreaker though, but it's not my choice for top design coolness.

You know it's not your cup of tea if it NEVER grows on you.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:14 PM   #426
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I've had some time to ruminate on the changes and updates. I dont mind them at all. The front looks better, the rear is a wash. I would like to know if there are as many updates from 13 to 14 as there were from 12 to 13. I had an 11 SS and traded it for a 13 SS. The difference in driveability was night and day. The tweaks to the susp worked wonders. I was initially worried about the elec PS but it has been a non factor on the road and track. I put it on a road course within the first 6 months and few thousand <5k miles. Oh, and understeer at 135mph sucks, but I knew it would do that going in and I understand why its there. I just needed to let you know that some of us do explore the stock limits

And, since we're in constructive civil mode I have one very minor design change I'd like to see. The radio controls on the steering wheel. The little wheel that is on the left side with the raised bar across it. It should be used on the right side for scrolling through the radio stations. Its 'frustrating' when you try to roll the button up or down only to have it slip or when you apply enough pressure to get it to scroll up or down, it pushes in and changes the source. I spent hours driving from East TN to Biloxi, MS playing with the radio and this was my biggest complaint which should speak to my happiness with the product if thats all I can find to complain about. Oh, I'm serious about this too, check it out the next time you're behind the wheel. Look at how easy it is to roll the cruise control speed vs the radio stations. Just add the raised bar thing to the other side.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:20 PM   #427
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I have a perfect example for you!

The first time I set foot on Long Island? I HATED IT!

....and then I moved to Port Jefferson - for two years - and I loved Long Island (.......all except for the taxes and traffic........)
I agree 100% with that. Lol
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:27 PM   #428
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Sorry -- been tied up and have not been able to read thru this thread -- but wanted to respond when I can.

Yup -- watched Lopez myself and you are right.

On the other hand - no - I'm not quiet and I'm outspoken and I have been outspoken at GM for 36 years.
Did it affect promotions? I'm sure it probably did at one time or another.......that's human nature and it happens in most, if not all big companies.

A 'lil story:

One day in 2001 I was driving to the office very early in the morning - (I even remember the car - a Bright Rally Red Camaro SS - )


......and WWJ radio suddenly was reporting that Bob Lutz was coming back to General Motors. (he'd worked for GM for a time in the early 60s...)

I'm not kidding - I very nearly pulled off the road and did backflips!

I think he's a genius. I don't agree with everything he says, but in the grand scheme of the Automobile Industry? I'd put him in the top ten people of all time..........

A week later I sent him an email along the lines of:

"...DELIGHTED that you're back at GM -- and I can hardly wait to see what you have in mind....... "

......yada yada yada..............

".......and I hope I'll never again have to apologize for the passion I have for our products.........."



Fast forward to three weeks later:

I'm in a hotel room in Las Vegas at a Press event - it's like 1am (4am Detroit time) - and I hear a 'bing!' as another email hits my inbox.......

Hmmmmm......wonder who that migh-----...BOB LUTZ!!!!! WHOA!....

The note was pure Bob........

...".....been a bit busy getting settled with Product Planning and Engineering.........wanted to get back to you..".

...yada yada yada........

"........don't you ever apologize for Passion....because without passion, we cannot have the greatest products and without the greatest products we cannot win..........and I don't plan on losing!.."


That's what I loved about him......passion - AND....the ability to listen to those of us who are (as Peter DeLorenzo calls us) "The True Believers"......far down the ladder, so to speak.........

Perhaps I was lucky - I got "invited back" over the years......I also made some enemies, but on the other hand, I wasn't running for Mayor.

...and it also helped that I didn't have children that I had to worry about sending to college......

Anyway - glad you're here - and I hope you'll see the car in person and perhaps that it'll grow on you!

Thanks Scott, I appreciate it. That was a good story too. I really like Bub Lutz and yes, he was a car genius. Loved his passion too.


I really appreciate your efforts too. Sorry for my giving you grief on the taillights. I will go and see the car in person. Right now I am about to take delivery of a GM company owned vehicle. A 2013 Camaro 2LT at a substantial savings. I will drive it a year and see what comes up next year. If their is another one available...who knows...If I decide that I can tolerate the lights and the deal is good??? My 2013 will still be new enough to hold out for the 2016 if I am not motivated enough to do a 2014 or 2015.

Take care,
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:39 PM   #429
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I think the changes on the 2014 are great! The front end IMO looks better now. When I had my 2010 SS the grill remined me a little of a kid with buck teeth. New deisgn fixes that. Taillights are good. Love the fact that the hood vent is operational and not just a plastic ornament!! The only styling I'm not in love with is the depth of the license plate area and the fact thats where the black plastic and body color meet. I would prefer the body color to end under the plate area. This is not a deal breaker as my favorite color is Ashen Grey, which will hide that division. Looking forward to see whats included with the 1LE pkg!! Hoping for Recaro buckets!! (Heated if possible, Canada is far to cold without!)
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:16 AM   #430
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The only styling I'm not in love with is the depth of the license plate area and the fact thats where the black plastic and body color meet.
I agree. But it was a relief to see clear pictures from the auto show after that morning show video left people aghast. I do prefer the tail lights from the Z28. Has it been confirmed that the SS without RS will come with those?
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:52 AM   #431
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Thanks Scott, I appreciate it. That was a good story too. I really like Bub Lutz and yes, he was a car genius. Loved his passion too.


I really appreciate your efforts too. Sorry for my giving you grief on the taillights. I will go and see the car in person. Right now I am about to take delivery of a GM company owned vehicle. A 2013 Camaro 2LT at a substantial savings. I will drive it a year and see what comes up next year. If their is another one available...who knows...If I decide that I can tolerate the lights and the deal is good??? My 2013 will still be new enough to hold out for the 2016 if I am not motivated enough to do a 2014 or 2015.

Take care,
SilverSurfer21
Nice! Did you tag it out of the system or just happened to find one on the lot?
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:08 PM   #432
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Nice! Did you tag it out of the system or just happened to find one on the lot?
I tagged it out of the system. There are some SSs ans SS convertibles available too. Check them out if you are an employee or retiree and are interested.

Last edited by SilverSurfer21; 04-06-2013 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 01:27 PM   #433
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I won't start a performance argument; I'm not qualified to defend myself in that area, and I may not know know design, but I know what I like; I like the design of the Camaro. I don't have any issues with the 2014 refresh, but after seeing the unveiling, I went out and bought a 2013 2SS/RS. I just like it more.

I didn't know what to think of the 2014 tailights, but they are already growing on me. I guess I just wasn't blown away by the refresh. That said, the Z/28 is beautiful. I like it much better than the 2014 SS...but the racing power of a Z/28 would go unused (much like my wife's china in the cupboard) if I went and bought one.

The Camaro is my commute car and I want those creature comforts that the Z/28 lacks. Sadly, because of traffic, I wanted the automatic as well. Shoot... (now don't take away my membership but) I would have bought a 5th Gen Camaro with an electric or hybrid engine if they had one. I just love the design.

I appreciate Team Camaro working hard to bring it back after it's hiatus and I appreciate their efforts to keep improving it each year. The incremental improvements are one of the reasons it took me to until this year to buy one. Every year there was one more "gotta have" that I waited for.

This year you added the color HUD, so if you had added cooled seats, blindspot warning and another 10 mpg, I would have waited again (taillights be damned). Thanks for only adding 1 of the 4 things I was hoping for; I was tired of waiting.

Special thanks to FbodFather for keeping us informed and teaching us about the history of the car that we're all obviously enthusiastic about.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:49 PM   #434
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Just got back from the NYIAS, and I have to say...I love the 2014 refresh. Before I went to the show, I was a big fan of the front end, ok with the heat extractor, and on the fence with the taillights. I didn't like them at first, but they started to grow on me and decided to hold my final opinion until I saw it in person.

The heat extractor looks smaller in pictures than it actually is. When I first saw the press release images I thought "If they had made it wider, it would look better" but after seeing it in person, it definitely works. As for the tail, this morning before going to the show, I liked the non-RS lights, and was not a huge fan of the LED, RS lights. Now, I really like both. Granted, I like the non-RS more, but the RS lights do look a hell of a lot better in person than they do in photos.

Oh, and I've seen a few people here saying that there's no difference between seeing photos online and seeing things in person. If that's the case:

https://www.google.com/search?q=gran...w=1900&bih=825

Congratulations, everyone! You've all been to the Grand Canyon!

I'm not trying to start anything, just making a point that yes, the car does look different in person than in photos. If you don't like the rear end and want to express that opinion, that's your opinion and you have as much right to express it as I do mine I'd just appreciate it if everyone would keep their opinions civilized.

All in all, this is just my $0.02 and probably worth less than that nowadays
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