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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 04-05-2013, 11:35 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKreme15 View Post
Look at what Randy Pobst did around Mazda with the Z07. No way a z/28 will be faster.
Z06 Z07: 1:34.5

ZL1: 1:39.2

- 2.5 seconds (Mazda is shorter than MRC)

= ~1:36.7 Z/28 time.

I don't disagree with you regarding the Z06 Z07 Corvette, specifically...But it's certainly faster than a standard Z06. Plus, there's a lot we still don't know about the car. That "three seconds faster" estimate was an initial number. It could be two...it could be four!

I remember having similar conversations when they first released the ZL1's Nurburgring time...nobody thought the "fat" car with a supercharger would be any good around a track.....surprise!!!

And here were are doing the same thing all over again. My point is not that it WILL beat a Z06 Z07...in fact, I never mentioned the Z07 package, as the Z06 is 70-some thousand dollars by itself. My purpose was strictly to open some people's minds to realize that, yes, this car can and will perform like they say it will.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:40 AM   #77
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Bringing up the old argument about Camaro or Corvette.... I love them both. Both perform great and turn heads. It just comes down to what I feel comfortable paying towards each month, and I feel the Camaro was the right choice. Now, if I ever had the money, I wouldn't hesitate to get a Corvette. But until that day, I enjoy driving my Camaro.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:11 PM   #78
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in fact, I never mentioned the Z07 package
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right on the bumper of the Carbon-package Z06...which is the fastest car GM produces south of the ZR1 Vette...
But you did
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:13 PM   #79
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But you did
Not until somebody else brought it up...this was my original comment:

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Because it's not a Camaro.

And......I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the Z/28 might be able to take a Z06 around a road course.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:53 PM   #80
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Not a fan of Corvettes, or the people that own them.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:56 PM   #81
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You can also Daily Drive a Z06 Vette... You're not going to want to DD a Z28.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:01 PM   #82
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some people like Camaro's better than Corvette's. As simple as that. Also, a Z06 starts at 76k MSRP. My guess on the Z/28 will be less than what the ZL1 costs because of the lack of all the creature comforts.
Im not zoo sure about the z?28 being Cheaper then the ZL1.

The Carbon Ceramic Brakes alone is like $10-$15k by its self!

Im expecting maybe around the $70,000?
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:06 PM   #83
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Im not zoo sure about the z?28 being Cheaper then the ZL1.

The Carbon Ceramic Brakes alone is like $10-$15k by its self!

Im expecting maybe around the $70,000?
It's not going to be just initial cost, either. People seem to be forgetting the cost of upkeep. Not going to be cheap if it's doing more than just track days.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:22 PM   #84
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You can also Daily Drive a Z06 Vette... You're not going to want to DD a Z28.
Why is that?
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:27 PM   #85
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Why is that?
I don't think I would DD either car, but he probably said that bc the Z06 at least has A/C standard, radio, some creature comforts. Probably meant it would be more pleasant to drive
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:30 PM   #86
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I don't think I would DD either car, but he probably said that bc the Z06 at least has A/C standard, radio, some creature comforts. Probably meant it would be more pleasant to drive
I'm also talking about what it's going to cost for some of the consumable items that are going to wear faster in a DD use than just for track only. I'm sure some will, but, this isn't going to be like owning a ZL1.

GM built this car for a reason.. and it wasn't getting groceries or going to car shows with lambo doors and leds.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:05 PM   #87
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People who spend Z/28 - Z06 - GT500 or greater money, and decide to DD it/them, have already taken costs into account. My neighbor DDs his '12 Porsche GT3 RS (short commute), and puts a new set of tires on it every 6 months or so. "Oh well, the cost of doing business..."

BTW, it's never seen a track, either.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:13 PM   #88
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I would DD it but understand that it's gonna cost me
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:20 PM   #89
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You can find low miles used Z06's for $40,000 - $45,000. And mod the heads for reliability and interior if that bothers you, with the price difference. You can do a lot with $20K- $30K of mod money. Look what I got for around or even less than the price of a Z28. (guessing)

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235911
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:35 PM   #90
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All anybody has to know is who's in charge of this project... MARK STIELOW. If HE says it will do it, it will do it because he most likely personally drove it at those levels. This guy is a hardcore enthusiast, engineer, driver. I would have nothing but confidence in a car produced by him and his team.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:46 PM   #91
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All anybody has to know is who's in charge of this project... MARK STIELOW. If HE says it will do it, it will do it because he most likely personally drove it at those levels. This guy is a hardcore enthusiast, engineer, driver. I would have nothing but confidence in a car produced by him and his team.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:48 PM   #92
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My initial first-hand experience with Stielow was at One Lap '00 when, with Cameron Evans (then-Popular Hotrodding Editor), he ran an early Pro Tour Camaro iteration...with a NASCAR-inspired SBC. His driving has improved immensely.

http://onelapofamerica.com/event/Res...7&res=OVL_CL04
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:51 PM   #93
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http://www.caranddriver.com/features...to-2012-page-8

Around VIR...The ZL1 (2:57) is already faster than the standard Z06 (2:58)...this in the hands of Car and Driver...erm...drivers. It's not quite as fast as a Z06 Z07 Carbon, though (2:53).

However...interestingly, Chevy says the Z/28 is at least three seconds faster around the Milford Road Course than the ZL1. VIR is longer than MRC, so it stands to reason it should be even faster around there...but regardless...we're looking at a time of at least 2:54....right on the bumper of the Carbon-package Z06...which is the fastest car GM produces south of the ZR1 Vette...

Don't doubt the Z/28 because of paper numbers about weight, etc...it's the real deal.
Oh the Z/28 is definitely the real deal, but a not insignificant portion of that real deal is certainly in the tires IMHO. Those Pirelli PZero Trofeo R tires the Z/28 will be sporting will outclass those Goodyear runcraps on the standard Z06 six ways from Sunday...especially if you want to magazine race against Z06 times that incidentally had 1st Gen F1 supercar tires on them.

Similarly, I am willing to wager that a sizeable portion of the Z06/Z07 performance gain is in those awesome Michelin PS Cup Tires. Nothing wrong with that, its just tires play a HUGE role that really can't be underestimated.

As I alluded to, that 2:58 VIR time was on Generation 1 Goodyear F1 Supercar tires in 2007. You should hear Corvette's chief engineer Tadge Juechter's comments on the vast improvement of the Gen 2s (which are on the ZL1 BTW) over the Gen 1s. In fact, according to Juechter, if Goodyear didn't step up the performance capabilities of the Gen 2 F1 supercar tires like they did, Corvette would have gone over to Michellin tires for all corvettes; instead of just to the Michellin PS2 ZPs for the ZR1 and PS Cups for the Z06/Z07.

So I too wouldn't be surprised that the Z/28 beats a now defunct, no longer in production, standard C6Z06 on whatever track du jour, but I think the reasons for that will be pretty straight forward when you get down to it.

I'm just glad they are keeping the LS7 around a little longer, that means parts will be available to me longer if needed. Besides, the C6Z06 is old anyway. The damn thing had a run of 8 model years! You should see how my 2007 C6Z06 stacks up against a 2001 Ferrari 360
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:54 PM   #94
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Oh the Z/28 is definitely the real deal, but a not insignificant portion of that real deal is certainly in the tires IMHO. Those Pirelli PZero Trofeo R tires the Z/28 will be sporting will outclass those Goodyear runcraps on the standard Z06 six ways from Sunday...especially if you want to magazine race against Z06 times that incidentally had 1st Gen F1 supercar tires on them.

Similarly, I am willing to wager that a sizeable portion of the Z06/Z07 performance gain is in those awesome Michelin PS Cup Tires. Nothing wrong with that, its just tires play a HUGE role that really can't be underestimated.

As I alluded to, that 2:58 VIR time was on Generation 1 Goodyear F1 Supercar tires in 2007. You should hear Corvette's chief engineer Tadge Juechter's comments on the vast improvement of the Gen 2s (which are on the ZL1 BTW) over the Gen 1s. In fact, according to Juechter, if Goodyear didn't step up the performance capabilities of the Gen 2 F1 supercar tires like they did, Corvette would have gone over to Michellin tires for all corvettes; instead of just to the Michellin PS2 ZPs for the ZR1 and PS Cups for the Z06/Z07.

So I too wouldn't be surprised that the Z/28 beats a now defunct, no longer in production, standard C6Z06 on whatever track du jour, but I think the reasons for that will be pretty straight forward when you get down to it.

I'm just glad they are keeping the LS7 around a little longer, that means parts will be available to me longer if needed. Besides, the C6Z06 is old anyway. The damn thing had a run of 8 model years! You should see how my 2007 C6Z06 stacks up against a 2001 Ferrari 360
Can't, and not going to argue with anything you've said. I think you're right on!
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:07 PM   #95
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The Carbon Ceramic Brakes alone is like $10-$15k by its self!
Um no, not even close. Every day the number people pull out of their butt adds another $1k over the day before. Rotors can be had for close to 900, calipers 450. People are just incapable of using google and a parts fiche. Maybe if you want to pay MSRP and throw in a few thousand you can hit those numbers.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:29 PM   #96
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Um no, not even close. Every day the number people pull out of their butt adds another $1k over the day before. Rotors can be had for close to 900, calipers 450. People are just incapable of using google and a parts fiche. Maybe if you want to pay MSRP and throw in a few thousand you can hit those numbers.
What is the MSRP price, new?
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:49 PM   #97
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rotors are 1780 each for the fronts
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:07 PM   #98
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You can also Daily Drive a Z06 Vette... You're not going to want to DD a Z28.
I've had the good fortune to spend a bit of seat time in a Z06. It is a daily driver with a LOT of compromises. The only thing that might make a Z06 a better daily drive would be the radio. Now if you add the MR shocks and some of the options that they now allow that add weight, the Z06 can be pretty pleasant.

But both will be harsh and noisy. JMO
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:34 PM   #99
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Brakes

Quote:
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Um no, not even close. Every day the number people pull out of their butt adds another $1k over the day before. Rotors can be had for close to 900, calipers 450. People are just incapable of using google and a parts fiche. Maybe if you want to pay MSRP and throw in a few thousand you can hit those numbers.
I think you are way low on this brake estimate. Even the cheapest Wilwood brakes are $999 and they are no where near this exotic. If as reported above the rotors are 1800 each thats $7200 in just rotors... Not to mention 4 six piston calipers. I think $10k is a fiar estimate. I just wish they had that option for my ZL1, I would have found a way to buy it.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:02 PM   #100
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Um no, not even close. Every day the number people pull out of their butt adds another $1k over the day before. Rotors can be had for close to 900, calipers 450. People are just incapable of using google and a parts fiche. Maybe if you want to pay MSRP and throw in a few thousand you can hit those numbers.
So you think the Z/28 is going to have basically the same braking system the other Camaros do except for a swap to carbon rotors and ordinary 6 piston calipers? I respectfully disagree.

I think this is an entirely custom system designed for and produced for the Z/28 specifically. I know when I'd looked at upgrading to a 6 piston Brembo system on my 2010 SS it was over $7k and that was not carbon. Even with the cost reductions of economy of scale I'm still thinking this system will be close to a $10k upgrade over the stock SS brakes. It's going to be more than just rotors and calipers.
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