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Old 04-07-2013, 03:09 PM   #69
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Sorry, haven't had much time to reply to my own thread, heh.


Orthojoe, welcome and well said!

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Originally Posted by LeanPocket View Post
I think we all assumed that as fact.

I think the issue is this,
its a $60,000 super base camaro.. :/
I think you totally missed my point. So did several others after you.

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Originally Posted by molsonbrador View Post
A partridge in a pear tree...really? F'in deal breaker. The stupid scmidt they put in cars today.
I know, right?



Now,
I purposely omitted the performance features of this car in my original post because I was making a point about the "stripped" mentality. Regardless of what every other car and its mother has standard these days (I'm not as old as I make myself sound, either) and regardless of what a Z/28 or Z28 should or shouldn't be, look at what this car does have in terms of comfort and convenience. It's simply amazing, and I don't understand how anyone could complain about it. Seriously, go read that list again.

The only omission that could be a real issue for anyone in this market segment is the lack of A/C (I've lived in some hot and humid areas... even a barely used weekend play toy would be nearly undrivable in some conditions). Oh, but you can get that too! If you can afford this car, you can afford to add A/C if you want or need it. If it helps, you can think of it this way... The Z/28 comes with standard A/C but if you don't want it then they'll take a couple $$$thousand (est.) off of the price for you.

Now if you do compare it to other cars then look just a couple few years back... luxury cars that were considered fully loaded didn't have half these features... a lot of these were as expensive or a lot more expensive.

As for taking away the sound insulation... With the way this car is built to be driven, I'd consider that an attribute. It will give a more raw feedback to the driver. My SS is darned quiet, my 2010 V6 was even more so (not counting when the metal went crunch and the airbag exploded from that red-light runner). It wouldn't hurt me at all to lose that silence for my daily driving. But even then, the Z/28 has dual-mode exhaust and therefore that part should be reasonably tame unless you don't want it to be. (Just guesses at this point, as none of us mortals know how it sounds inside yet).

Too rough a ride? Totally subjective. Some people like it rough.
Rougher than any other stock Camaro? Sounds like it. Rough as some of the modded daily driver Camaros around here? Highly doubtful. Oh and FWIW, I don't believe the suspension is user-adjustable, they were just saying that they could tune the suspension 4 ways (high damper-speed compression and rebound and low damper-speed compression and rebound) instead of the usual 2 ways (compression and rebound across the board).


Then
we get into the performance aspects... From the sounds if it, in most cases, no contest. For a factory backed street legal super-high-performace car that will go lap after lap after lap after lap without any degraded performance and without questionable reliability, it will be a bargain compared to just about anything else available, even if it were to come in at $75k (My guess is in the mid-60's). End of story.

As for the "LS7 1LE" Z/28... Aside from the fact that the LS7 would bump the price enough for everyone to still complain, track performance is all about balance. More engine needs more grip, more brakes, more suspension. The 1LE is well balanced with the LS3... with the LS7 you would quickly see reports coming in that on the track it couldn't put the power down and was too tail happy, was having brake fade after a couple hard laps, was overpowering the suspension... (sounds a bit like the complaints of the '13 GT500, except this car wouldn't have the 662 hp to overshadow complaints of the imbalanced performance). Would most people be fine with that on the street? Sure... but the track junkies would be underwhelmed and annoyed that it still wasn't a well engineered track car like a Z/28 should be, and the press would slam it for its lack of balance when you could get the amazing do-it-all ZL1 for slightly more or for a lot less you could get a 1LE and have nearly the performance with much more balance and consistency.

For the record... The Z/28 isn't the car for me and even if it was I couldn't afford it... I just know what it is. And for that, it's perfect.

Anyway, it's nice outside and I've written enough for now...
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:20 PM   #70
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OK...so here's my question....How many of you were around when the original Z/28 was introduced? It was basically a race car for the T/A series. It certainly waqs no luxo coupe. Except doing a reversal on the engine size...the original 302 was smaller than the 327 in most camaros...the new Z/28 follows the theme of NO FRILLS. I bet you look a long time before you find a stock 1st gen Z with factory air!!!
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:29 PM   #71
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Guys I'd love an LS7 in anything. An LS7 in a 1LE would be a BLAST. Problem is that car would cost about the same as a ZL1 and be watching ZL1 tail lights on every lap.

Also some are posting "GM could sell so many more if it weren't going to be the most expensive Camaro". You assume there is an endless supply of LS7s. I think that is going to limit production. And if production is limited and you want a car NOTICEABLY faster than the ZL1 you throw everything at it and remove the rest and charge what you can get and rest on your laurels.

I realize that doesn't make many happy but it is what it is. And that is simply the king of all pony cars ever made.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:31 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLTRBO View Post
Then we get into the performance aspects... From the sounds if it, in most cases, no contest. For a factory backed street legal super-high-performace car that will go lap after lap after lap after lap without any degraded performance and without questionable reliability, it will be a bargain compared to just about anything else available, even if it were to come in at $75k (My guess is in the mid-60's). End of story.
Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone.

I agree with everything you said ALLTRBO, particularly with what I have quoted above.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:58 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majic View Post
OK...so here's my question....How many of you were around when the original Z/28 was introduced? It was basically a race car for the T/A series. It certainly waqs no luxo coupe. Except doing a reversal on the engine size...the original 302 was smaller than the 327 in most camaros...the new Z/28 follows the theme of NO FRILLS. I bet you look a long time before you find a stock 1st gen Z with factory air!!!
Well it would take a long, long time to find one as factory air was not an option on '67-'69 Z/28s! Nor was AT tranny or vert (though there was exactly one first gen. vert Z/28 built for Chevy exec Pete Estes). This new Z/28 in my mind is an awesome build that was put together with a purpose in mind. Outside of my budget, but I surely appreciate what it is.
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:23 PM   #74
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Well it would take a long, long time to find one as factory air was not an option on '67-'69 Z/28s! Nor was AT tranny or vert (though there was exactly one first gen. vert Z/28 built for Chevy exec Pete Estes). This new Z/28 in my mind is an awesome build that was put together with a purpose in mind. Outside of my budget, but I surely appreciate what it is.
Clyde
That is why I said what I said...no a/c. There was not much of anything available except handling and reasonable speed. The Z was made to corner and win the T/A series. The 302 was way under-rated for power, the 290 was more like 350. It was no killer in a straight line but on a road corse it was awesome. The new one will do both.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:47 PM   #75
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I get the whole Z/28 thing and why they made it. Just surprised somebody would want it with todays tech. Seems like your settling for less, when there are so many other faster track cars that are nicer. I have owned a Z/28 for 42 years and I know its nothing like a new 2014 Z but it still seems like a giant step back wards compared to my ZL1, a 14 500GT, C7 Vette, Ect. Like I said before, It's to bad they don't let us decide how we want it. That way you track guys could have your striped down car and the rest could have it the way they want it.
It seems to me that the main reason this car happened is because they had left over parts from the Z06 and ZR1, put them in a Camaro and it wasn't fast enough so they started taking things out and called it a track car.
By the way, the main reason the early Z's and other high performance cars were not offered with A/C as an option was because they turned to high an RPM for the A/C cpmp., not because Roger Penski didn't want it in his race car. Guess what, with todays tech. you can have both and every thing else you want.
Again I just think it's to bad they didn't take the 1LE, put an LS7 in it and let people delete what they didn't want, and add the better brakes, wheels and tires.
I'm guessing the Gen 6 Z28 will be powerful enough and light enough that they will get it right next time, just like they did with the ZR1.
I love my ZL1 but having a 71 Z/28 since it was new I would have liked to have gotten a new Z also and I would have still kept the ZL1.
Revychevy, just because people have a different opinion than you doesn't mean they are Trolls.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:59 PM   #76
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Since I will not be getting a 14 Z/28 I guess I should just stay off the Forums for them. Being a big Z fan I thought I would try it, but it didn't seem to go over very well. It was just my opinion of what I was hoping the car would be.
Hope all you guys who must be getting them, by the sounds of it, really enjoy them and be safe.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:03 PM   #77
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You aren't getting more for less. You are getting far more performance parts for more and less non performance parts.

In my opinion, non performance parts don't make a great car. I don't need in car nav, I have a phone with GPS. I don't need satellite radio, I have an iPod. I don't need power seats, I can move the seat myself. I don't need a lot of stuff that comes in modern Camaros and don't want to pay for but I don't have a choice.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:57 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevlar382 View Post
Since I will not be getting a 14 Z/28 I guess I should just stay off the Forums for them. Being a big Z fan I thought I would try it, but it didn't seem to go over very well. It was just my opinion of what I was hoping the car would be.
I rather doubt that there is room above the SS in the Camaro lineup for three distinctly different flavors of upgraded performance with luxury; one of them would very likely get squeezed out. As it is, even the 1LE level is neither intended nor expected to appeal to the entire Camaro customer base. As mentioned, the 1LE is the Z/28 for most folks, with the ZL1 being the Z/28 for a few more.

Try to grasp the notion that some of us actively do not want any more new technology features than what it takes to get the performance. That there is such a thing as too much refinement - this being possible even in one's daily-driver if you want my absolutely honest opinion.

My guess is that the above attitude is more widely recognized within the Z/28 forum than just about anywhere else on this site. So when suggestions are made that the Z/28 should be available with all sorts of C&C features, it comes off sounding like a request that the original hardcore intent of the car be watered down to be just like every other car on the market. And make the Z/28 less special in the process.

Suppose you could somehow make enough chassis and suspension mods to bring your 1971 Z28 up to near-parity with the '14 Z/28 at least on most surfaces, and kill off a few bothersome structural vibrations in the process. If you're at all familiar with the Pro-Touring side of the automotive hobby or watched a well-driven ESP 2nd gen Camaro run through the cones, you know that it's at least possible. With the possible addition of A/C if yours does not have it, would you really want to clutter that car up with all of today's features to the point of costing it some of its identity?


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Old 04-08-2013, 11:38 AM   #79
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I dont see whats so impressive about what is essentially a painted body in white camaro.

Why are bragging about a car that is losing technology?

Id be much more impressed if this car could whip a ZL1 aroujd a road course while still having navigation, more than 1 speaker, sound deadening materials in place and kept the jack and tire in back.

How much faster would a ZL1 be with the same applications?
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:06 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki Tikki Tavi View Post
I dont see whats so impressive about what is essentially a painted body in white camaro.

Why are bragging about a car that is losing technology?

Id be much more impressed if this car could whip a ZL1 aroujd a road course while still having navigation, more than 1 speaker, sound deadening materials in place and kept the jack and tire in back.

How much faster would a ZL1 be with the same applications?
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:08 PM   #81
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I see a lot of sour grapes in here.....
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:41 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Rikki Tikki Tavi View Post
How much faster would a ZL1 be with the same applications?



Exactly.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:43 PM   #83
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Building a muscle car that the workers for GM can't even afford. Brilliant.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:52 PM   #84
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Anyone who thinks this car will be any less than $60K is crazy. The brakes and the engine alone probably cost over $20K.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:13 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki Tikki Tavi View Post
I dont see whats so impressive about what is essentially a painted body in white camaro.
Because it is clearly NOT intended to appeal to everybody, and yet it's still being built. If you don't get it, don't worry about it. Not everybody "gets" Caterhams or SBC-powered deuce coupes either.

Quote:
Why are bragging about a car that is losing technology?
Because technologies that you do not even want in the first place have less than zero value to you (so the car gets better without them). That so many people can't seem to grasp this is just icing on the cake.


Quote:
Id be much more impressed if this car could whip a ZL1 aroujd a road course while still having navigation, more than 1 speaker, sound deadening materials in place and kept the jack and tire in back.
If you have to have luxury with your performance, you don't really want a car with a hardcore race-car character about it. I think that used to be the distinction between a GT car and a sports car.


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