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Old 04-11-2013, 02:36 PM   #562
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
Well, it's all good as they say! We need to pass the time until the final specs and figures come out on the Z/28! OK, you have generalized a bit too much by saying the Z/28 uses nothing over...IMHO the Z/28 will use a good amount of what the '13 and the refresh Camaro will use. Major revisions will be the nose/fascia/hood, tail/fascia,decklid (and lighting). The LS7 has been around since '06 MY I believe, and I betcha from the bellhousing backward it will be the same as the 1LE, (TR6060, driveshaft, rear axle housing/ratio/half shafts). Weight reduction saves money actually on the build. Recaro's are probably same in some way as used in other models, except stripped down with no power. That's all cost saving. The carbon ceramic brakes, DSSV dampers and springs/stab bars will be new. It should not have to be anything more than 64,995 MSRP to make a handsome profit.
...and don't forget the unique-to-Z/28 forged 19s and corresponding R-like rubber...
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:44 PM   #563
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Well, it's all good as they say! We need to pass the time until the final specs and figures come out on the Z/28!

Weight reduction saves money actually on the build.
I gotta respectfully disagree with this one...I think the engineering, etc.,to reduce the weight in the Z/28 is one of the many things unique to this vehicle that will make it more expensive...Sounds bass-ackwards, but I think it's true...
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:13 PM   #564
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I gotta respectfully disagree with this one...I think the engineering, etc.,to reduce the weight in the Z/28 is one of the many things unique to this vehicle that will make it more expensive...Sounds bass-ackwards, but I think it's true...
....I believe the only weight saving new engineering you refer to that would cost money in real terms would be the thinner rear window glass, no? The rest is stuff physically not placed in the car, the rear seat material and divider, speakers, sound deadening material, wiring from harneses, radio, A/C unit, not like they structured a new frame and chasis from space age materials, or brought forth new manufacturing proceses. The money will be in the addition, rather than the subtraction......it's going to be a far less bitter pill to swallow monetarily I feel than most suspect!
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:23 PM   #565
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I would just keep in mind that this Z/28 isn't going to be another high volume option/model like when the ZL-1 and the 1LE were added to the line-up for a customer's choice at the lot...

They're not gonna price this car so that it takes away sales from their own line up that is now offered...

The sales numbers for the Z/28 won't be large enough to make it "affordable" like the others and have it's costs spread out with higher volume sales...

IMO, it's part of the "Z/28" thing, instead of the "Z28"....Just my take on it...
I agree, but the parts added and what the car will be doesnt compensate for more than $70k out the door. Sure it's a race car, but those deleted items to make it lighter would subtract from original price of a car then added parts in. If its more than $70k, you're simply paying for a name. I mentioned why I believe it'd be $70k out the door. A ZL-1 is not considered in the fleet. It's a specialized camaro as well. A 1LE is considered in the fleet because its a hair over an SS. What they sell production wise on ZL-1s in 2012? 2000?def not what they sold your avg camaro for. It'll be more than a ZL-1, but maybe $10k over. Otherwise you'd just get a Vette IMO.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:15 PM   #566
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Well, I hope for everybody's sake it's at least priced "reasonably"...When the heck is the price supposed to come out, anyway?
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:40 PM   #567
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Figure in about 6 months, when sourcing is complete...
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:32 PM   #568
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Figure in about 6 months, when sourcing is complete...
Thanks...Just wondering if there's any chance GM could put a stop to this "dealer mark-up" bs over MSRP on this one...I don't get how that they can let that fly...Sure seems like a rip-off and terrible P.R......

(They didn't have that with the '67 Z/28's did they?....lol)
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:52 PM   #569
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Thanks...Just wondering if there's any chance GM could put a stop to this "dealer mark-up" bs over MSRP on this one...I don't get how that they can let that fly...Sure seems like a rip-off and terrible P.R......

(They didn't have that with the '67 Z/28's did they?....lol)
You do know GM has ZERO to do with the price a dealer sets for a car right?

If you want to buy a Zed at MSRP just contact Becky. I know for a fact she won't charge you a dime over MSRP.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:59 PM   #570
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You do know GM has ZERO to do with the price a dealer sets for a car right?
Perhaps you are right, but I would think GM sure could determine who they send them to, or allocate them to...and if it's a dealer that plans on jacking it up over MSRP......., then..........well, they don't get one to sell at all.....
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:06 PM   #571
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Just read this whole thread...
Awsome car -- chevy knows what they are doing a camaro for everybody
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:14 PM   #572
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Perhaps you are right, but I would think GM sure could determine who they send them to, or allocate them to...and if it's a dealer that plans on jacking it up over MSRP......., then..........well, they don't get one to sell at all.....
GM gives allocations based on sales. Why should GM care if a certain dealership's customers are dumb enough to pay over MSRP? GM's goal is to sell cars, as is the dealership's, if people simply refused to pay over MSRP then dealerships would stop doing it.

Simple economics.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:19 PM   #573
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GM gives allocations based on sales. Why should GM care if a certain dealership's customers are dumb enough to pay over MSRP? GM's goal is to sell cars, as is the dealership's, if people simply refused to pay over MSRP then dealerships would stop doing it.

Simple economics.
Well, alrighty then!!...lol....I think Becky is gonna be busy with this one...lol
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:05 AM   #574
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I don't see Ford doing anything to try and "respond" to GM's z/28. Frankly, there just isn't a market for it. If someone wants to road race a Ford, there are already options available to them via Ford Racing. Granted, they are not street-legal, whereas the z/28 is, but if your real intent is to compete in a sanctioned road racing series, why would you need it to be street legal?

IMO, this car was built to appease a vocal segment within the Camaro community and they will likely sell every one they make but it will still be a street car pretending to be a track-specfic race car. That being the case, why in the world would Ford waste time and money trying to develop a direct competitor for it? If memory serves, GM never "responded" back in the day to Ford's 2000 Cobra R.
Simply sorting out the IRS in the new lighter body and taking off where the Boss left off will do it until GM has time to respond with the lighter car. Bet on it, Ford (and ADM happy dealers) love the speciality Mustangs. Without a Corvette, there's lots of room to play.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:17 AM   #575
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I don't see Ford doing anything to try and "respond" to GM's z/28. Frankly, there just isn't a market for it. If someone wants to road race a Ford, there are already options available to them via Ford Racing. Granted, they are not street-legal, whereas the z/28 is, but if your real intent is to compete in a sanctioned road racing series, why would you need it to be street legal?

IMO, this car was built to appease a vocal segment within the Camaro community and they will likely sell every one they make but it will still be a street car pretending to be a track-specfic race car. That being the case, why in the world would Ford waste time and money trying to develop a direct competitor for it? If memory serves, GM never "responded" back in the day to Ford's 2000 Cobra R.
Ford will definitely come up with something to "compete" I don't know if they will go as extreme, but they might. You mentioned the Cobra R. Maybe its time for Ford to resurrect the Cobra R, the 2000 Cobra R only 300 built, unique engine, stripped of all amenities so maybe they will respond with something "equal".

Ford has been pretty good at responding lately, Camaro comes back witha 426HP LS3, Next year Mustang gets the 5.0 Back with 412HP, ZL1 is announced with 580HP Ford upgrades the GT500 to 662 HP. Also to try and regain sales, the Mustang has received 2 face lifts since the Camaro came back. The 2010-2012, and then the updated fascias and rear ends on the 2013s and 2014s.

So if I was a betting man, I would wager they will do something, I don't know if they will go to the extreme GM did with the Z/28, but I would bet they have something planned or in the works.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:31 AM   #576
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Thing is, will they do it the right way this time or will pressure for things like the appearance-oriented tire size stagger rule the day once again?


I'd really like to think that Ford's decision to go with the 3-link way back when the decision was made to retain the stick axle in the S197 was influenced at least a little by internet forum discussions concerning 3-links that had taken place as far back as the 2001-2002-2003 time frame.

That would give me a little more confidence that they're paying attention to what the people who would drive their cars this hard really expect. The Camaro team already gets it, first with the 1LE and now with the Z/28.


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Old 04-12-2013, 01:25 PM   #577
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Recall those tag lines you see in advertising: "MSRP. Dealers may sell for less"? Well, in most jurisdictions, isn't it also "fair" that "Dealers may sell for whatever they can get"?

Less...more...in between...

Seems to be the way "free enterprise" works...which BTW isn't free, or even inexpensive, necessarily.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:59 PM   #578
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Seems to be the way "free enterprise" works...which BTW isn't free, or even inexpensive, necessarily.
Yes.

Truly free markets (free enterprise) don’t really exist. Every market has some rules and boundaries that restrict freedom of choice. A market looks free only because people so unconditionally accept its underlying restrictions that they fail to see those restrictions.

How ‘free’ a market is cannot be objectively defined. It is essentially a political definition. The usual standard claim by free-market economists that they are trying to defend the market from politically motivated interference by the government is false. Government is always involved, and those free-marketeers are as politically motivated as anyone.

Overcoming the myth that there is such a thing as an objectively defined ‘free market’ is a first step towards understanding markets and capitalism.
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