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Old 04-13-2013, 02:12 AM   #26
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Just to be sure I know the answer is new z but maybe SS could hang also?
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:52 AM   #27
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Just to be sure I know the answer is new z but maybe SS could hang also?
This would me a more interesting race.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:09 AM   #28
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Just to be sure I know the answer is new z but maybe SS could hang also?
I believe it would if it was on race tires.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:32 AM   #29
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It'd be interesting. Considering the 69 had approx the same amount of horses as a current SS and it being lighter, it may have the edge.

Putting racing tires on an SS I'd think the SS would win since suspension is much better than back then. Anyone has a '69 to text this theory? Lol
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:16 PM   #30
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I found a dyno of a 70 boss mustang and it was 455 to the tire.
Considering chassis dynos were not widely used until post-'69, I question this result...

That's more apt to be a Gross hp rating on an ENGINE dyno, if that result is from the '69 era. TRACO T/A-Series 302s were generally considered to make around 450 @ the crank, back in the day.

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Old 04-13-2013, 12:51 PM   #31
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Considering chassis dynos were not widely used until post-'69, I question this result...

That's more apt to be a Gross hp rating on an ENGINE dyno, if that result is from the '69 era. TRACO T/A-Series 302s were generally considered to make around 450 @ the crank, back in the day.
The dyno I found was of a current historic racer.
http://youtu.be/VmnusGqIBeg
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:56 PM   #32
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The dyno I found was of a current historic racer.
http://youtu.be/VmnusGqIBeg
Hmmmm yea I wasn't sure but I knew it was at least or around 430HP. I'd say the SS doesn't stand a chance to it since its overweight and needs a diet.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:00 PM   #33
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That's like asking if an F22 is faster than a P51 Mustang.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:04 PM   #34
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So I'm continuing to answer my own question. The video of laguna seca on old bass I timed at 1.46 and the laguna seca new boss was 1.40. Got to say the in camera of the old car looks like a blast. Check these out
http://youtu.be/ybCNLNSz5uI

http://youtu.be/61mkleZfxdg

Even a bone stock 2010 SS on street tires can can beat that old Boss 302:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/l...ss_laguna_lap/
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:35 PM   #35
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That's awesome. I wonder if the fe4 on 2012+ removed some of the under steer.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:34 PM   #36
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The dyno I found was of a current historic racer.
http://youtu.be/VmnusGqIBeg
A LOT of improvements in procedures AND materials in the last 40 years.

To give you an idea, in the mid-'70s, 500" Pro Stock engines made less than 900, gross, while The Professor claims they're making mid-1400s today ... a 50% improvement. See the current (June '13) issue of Hot Rod Magazine for the interview.

No data given on whether the current version, above, has the Cross BOSS/Autolite inline carbs that are mighty rare today, but were worth some extra ponies, back in the day.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:57 AM   #37
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Anything is possible. I would like to see this match up with the Z/28.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:15 AM   #38
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Technology has advanced so much that race cars of yesteryear can be outperformed by mundane street cars today. Modern track focused car will annihilate anything from 1969.

I remember seeing an interview of Walter rohl mentioning today's street cars are far more capable than the cars he used to race back in the day
It may be that race cars from yesteryear are not understood well. The car in my sig pic went 197 mph at Spa in 1967 and it was the Grand Prix winner that year. Spa was 90% public roads at the time. No aero. Bias-ply tires, hard as rocks

A "mundane street car" from 2014 is not doing that even with new tire tech. Even if you put 10,000 hp to the mundane car's drive wheels it's not beating that old F1 racer on the public road track. Everything from ramp angles to bounce and rebound, to spring rate, to toe on all four corners to the number of clutches to the final drive and every gear split, to the brake bias and ride height were tuned on the F1 car for that track or could be tuned for it, as standard practice. In real practical use it was usually just the gear splits since teams showed up with not a lot of pit time to prep, but the new, mundane car just simply doesn't have the capability that old F1 cars has; if the new car can use it's whole capability then the old one can too

I agree that a new car built for track use can and will surpass that old car given the tech available today. But the idea that an old race car is beat by everything that's new is not very accurate. I have no doubt that a 1967 Gurney-Welslake Eage F1 would present a real challenge to a new Z/28 or ZL-1 or new Corvette pick-your-alphabet-soup on that public road track, or on a purpose built track. The lack of aero on the old car would be the worst mark against it...but then again by 1969, F1 cars had aero, and then the turbo era cars in F1 were right around the corner
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:09 AM   #39
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It may be that race cars from yesteryear are not understood well. The car in my sig pic went 197 mph at Spa in 1967 and it was the Grand Prix winner that year. Spa was 90% public roads at the time. No aero. Bias-ply tires, hard as rocks

A "mundane street car" from 2014 is not doing that even with new tire tech. Even if you put 10,000 hp to the mundane car's drive wheels it's not beating that old F1 racer on the public road track. Everything from ramp angles to bounce and rebound, to spring rate, to toe on all four corners to the number of clutches to the final drive and every gear split, to the brake bias and ride height were tuned on the F1 car for that track or could be tuned for it, as standard practice. In real practical use it was usually just the gear splits since teams showed up with not a lot of pit time to prep, but the new, mundane car just simply doesn't have the capability that old F1 cars has; if the new car can use it's whole capability then the old one can too

I agree that a new car built for track use can and will surpass that old car given the tech available today. But the idea that an old race car is beat by everything that's new is not very accurate. I have no doubt that a 1967 Gurney-Welslake Eage F1 would present a real challenge to a new Z/28 or ZL-1 or new Corvette pick-your-alphabet-soup on that public road track, or on a purpose built track. The lack of aero on the old car would be the worst mark against it...but then again by 1969, F1 cars had aero, and then the turbo era cars in F1 were right around the corner
F1 cars were/are a TOTALLY different animal than a Trans Am car. Aside from that I completely agree with your assesment. But I feel a typical street performance car has got to be similar in performance to an old T/A racer. I'm pretty comfortable with the thought that an SSor better in the camaro line up will give the Original Z/28 hell on a track and I would guess a 1LE on up would be faster.

The SS and an SS/1LE would be a race. I think either of the current Z's will beat it handily.

Then again this is just my uneducated/slightly informed opinion...
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:57 AM   #40
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F1 cars were/are a TOTALLY different animal than a Trans Am car. Aside from that I completely agree with your assesment. But I feel a typical street performance car has got to be similar in performance to an old T/A racer. I'm pretty comfortable with the thought that an SSor better in the camaro line up will give the Original Z/28 hell on a track and I would guess a 1LE on up would be faster.

The SS and an SS/1LE would be a race. I think either of the current Z's will beat it handily.

Then again this is just my uneducated/slightly informed opinion...

that's what I said: race cars are race cars, they are a different breed

I'm responding, in much of that thing I posted, to this:

"Technology has advanced so much that race cars of yesteryear can be outperformed by mundane street cars today. Modern track focused car will annihilate anything from 1969.
"

That's a thing that I think can be very true, but it is not an automatic thing
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:00 AM   #41
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I can't believe this an actual question/debate.

Do you think I would win a gun fight with a Nerf bat?
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:24 PM   #42
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that's what I said: race cars are race cars, they are a different breed

I'm responding, in much of that thing I posted, to this:

"Technology has advanced so much that race cars of yesteryear can be outperformed by mundane street cars today. Modern track focused car will annihilate anything from 1969."

That's a thing that I think can be very true, but it is not an automatic thing

I think I misread your post and I was thinking that you were comparing the F1 cars for our conversation. I think (I may be wrong) that the old T/A racers were more akin to a street car. Kinda like what the Stock Cars used to be. Now they are a different animal all together.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:36 PM   #43
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im thinking the new would beat the old
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:44 AM   #44
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Threw this together 1970 Boss Mustang trans am race car and stock 2010 Camaro SS

http://youtu.be/SS5HxMknVzA

Split screen Laguna Seca

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Old 04-16-2013, 10:38 AM   #45
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Threw this together 1970 Boss Mustang trans am race car and stock 2010 Camaro SS

http://youtu.be/SS5HxMknVzA

Split screen Laguna Seca
I just tried to watch it; 19 seconds of nothing, just a black screen.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:29 AM   #46
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I don't have any difficulty on my phone or computer. Try again for me ?

http://youtu.be/SS5HxMknVzA
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:50 AM   #47
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I don't have any difficulty on my phone or computer. Try again for me ?
http://youtu.be/SS5HxMknVzA
I see... Randy P... 1970 Boss vs. 2010 SS
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:02 PM   #48
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Threw this together 1970 Boss Mustang trans am race car and stock 2010 Camaro SS

http://youtu.be/SS5HxMknVzA

Split screen Laguna Seca
Very cool. Thanks for putting that together. That 1970 Boss Mustang was faster than the 2010 SS up until he was held up by traffic. Impressive.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:26 PM   #49
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Nice video, but wayyyyyy too many variables.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:03 PM   #50
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The interesting part is that both of these were run in 2009. My point is more the similarity in a 70s race car and an understeering 2010 SS. I would love to see an actual
run between the 69 70 TA cars and stock SS or if needed 1LE
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