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Old 04-19-2013, 03:15 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Wizard1183 View Post
Can you give me some popcorn please? I could use a snack. What kind are you eating right now?

Btw, how is what I've said negative? Isn't what I've stated true?
That didn't come across right... I mean't that the new thread should not have any negative vibes. Some times my tone of font doesn't come across right.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:39 PM   #170
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Every Camaro currently made can be drag-raced....Every Camaro made can also be tracked, auto-xd, whatever...

Street legal, "purpose-built" drag cars won't come from the factory....There is not enough demand, and "stripper cars" don't sell enough to the public to be viable...

....Drag racing is strictly an American sport...Very much unlike road-coarse racing...The future of Camaro is the world-wide market, and street legal drag-cars have no appeal there to make it worthwhile to produce...


Don't think we'll see stripped down, street legal drag-cars in abundance until we can build them ourselves from good, low dollar used ones...The factory won't do that just for a couple years of limited sales in the U.S....

Just my opinion...Why would they build a drag car if 99% of the race/track features...(Comp Mode, for instance)...go unused by Camaro buyers as it is?...lol
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:51 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by lbls1 View Post
Chevy hesitated rightly because the Z/28 by heritage was a naturally aspirated car with modest amenities.

It is the end decision that raises questions with me. While its not a perfect world, and whereas both cars are fantastic, I'm still left with a few more things desired.
and the ZL1 was the king at the drag strip.

So why was the ZL1 created to be a track monster and now come out with the Z/28 as another track monster?

Like Wizard asked - where is the straight line Camaro for the street?
A 427 or LS9 with a 3.91 gear and bullet proof rear end and option transmission?

Not a hard thing to do but instead they made the COPO and only made 69 of them and charged 90k. Or supposedly you can buy a roller COPO for 50k (saw it on dragzine and havent heard about it since).

Still not street legal.

GM missed the ball here.

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Yeah but you're talking about a car priced in the $40k's, not $60k+ which is where I expect the Z/28 to be. No doubt there'll be a few rich guys who'll buy a Z and take it to the dragstrip so they can be the center of attention which is what they bought it for to begin with.

Do you see a lot of expensive BMW's and Porsches at the drags? Once a certain price point is reached it becomes a much more purposeful purchase; especially with a car that's been weight-reduced from the factory for the track.

Chevy has a Camaro for the serious drag racer; it's the COPO. For the guy who wants power and comfort on the street, it's the ZL1. For the serious road course racer it's going to be the Z/28. It's going to be REAL interesting to see what the 6th gen cars are like considering the big 15% weight reduction mandate now in place for the next generation of cars.
I know of a guy now who will probably buy the Z/28 and make it his drag car. he has the money and his camaro's are all drag strip cars except his new ZL1

Plenty of first gen Z/28s are now big block prostreet/bracket cars with giant tires, a ford 9", a turbo 400, and a full on roll cage. There will be some people who do this to their Z/28s.

As for expensive Euros? Yes I have seen plenty of them and they normally underwhelm at that. A 200k lambo running 11s is pretty pathetic when a Camaro next to it for 30k and a shot of nitrous runs 10.90s. I see this stuff all the time.


If I end up buying a Z/28 - it will see both the drag strip and the road course. I bought it to have fun with it and that is exactly what I would do with it.

GM left the drag racers high and dry by making three road course cars and leaving the drag racing group behind. The last generation was really Mustang v Camaro at the drag strip.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:58 PM   #172
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Here is what we KNOW about the Z/28.

#1 It was done by Mark Steilow and an intensely passionate TEAM of engineers. Google Mark if you don't know him.

#2 Pedders USA has put up a great deal of performance data with our cars starting in 2009. Last year the Lingenfelter - Pedders L/28 beat a lot of cars including Z06s. At the OPTIMA Invitational we put down the 5th Fastest Road Course Lap. The four faster cars times were on flying laps. The L/28 time was from a standing start on the warm up lap. With Danny Popp behind the wheel he walked the field in 2011 in a white Vette in race trim. With Danny Popp behind the wheel of the L/28 he beat the Vette time at Putnam park. Funny thing is the Vette and the L/28 have the same RWHP. The Vette is under 3100 with driver and the L/28 4K.

#3 A 1LE tips the scales at 3875. The Z/28 should be at 3730. The Z06 3210 if my memory is correct. The difference is 520 pounds.

The Z/28 is going to surprise a lot of people. I may be thrown out of the Milford Proving Grounds or the Ren Center for saying this, but I think the Camaro puts power down better than the Vette. The ZR1 should me much faster than the Z06 with all the performance upgrades. It's not. Could it be that the power of the ZR1 is harder to use than most think?

Anyone can make a Vette fast around a road course. They roll of the assembly line fast. Making a Camaro Corvette, Porsche, Ferrari fast is impressive. Our L/28 blows competitors minds. The Z/28 will do the same off the assembly line and do it with four people on a thrill ride.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:59 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
Every Camaro currently made can be drag-raced....Every Camaro made can also be tracked, auto-xd, whatever...

Street legal, "purpose-built" drag cars won't come from the factory....There is not enough demand, and "stripper cars" don't sell enough to the public to be viable...

....Drag racing is strictly an American sport...Very much unlike road-coarse racing...The future of Camaro is the world-wide market, and street legal drag-cars have no appeal there to make it worthwhile to produce...


Don't think we'll see stripped down, street legal drag-cars in abundance until we can build them ourselves from good, low dollar used ones...The factory won't do that just for a couple years of limited sales in the U.S....

Just my opinion...Why would they build a drag car if 99% of the race/track features...(Comp Mode, for instance)...go unused by Camaro buyers as it is?...lol
COPOs sold out instantly and to date is the most expensive Camaro sold.

Same with the Cobra Jets and Drag Pak challengers. Offer it and they would sell.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:04 PM   #174
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GM simply isn't showing as much interest in straight line performance.

They want to get rid of the stigma that american cars cant turn, as the Europeans and the japanese say.

they are trying to appeal to that market, by creating a more balanced car. its exciting, because it is clear that this is what there goal is, and with the alpha based 6th gen, they will be able to dive more effectively into this market.

and its not just chevy... look at Ford with their Boss model. go check out the ford forums. LOTS of people that prefer the boss LS over the gt500. and now dodge making claims to put out a z/28 rival.

the one thing that still is and will continue to be true about american cars is that V8 roar. that is until CAFE butts in.

drag racing as a sport is shrinking, and road racing is growing.

It's OK guys, you don't need a mullet to drive a camaro any more.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:05 PM   #175
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COPOs sold out instantly and to date is the most expensive Camaro sold.

Same with the Cobra Jets and Drag Pak challengers. Offer it and they would sell.
For sure those sold out...the difference I see is in affordablilty...A street/drag car from the factory won't be cheap, so why not build what you want depending on whatever your pocket book will bear...just sayin'...
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:16 PM   #176
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For sure those sold out...the difference I see is in affordablilty...A street/drag car from the factory won't be cheap, so why not build what you want depending on whatever your pocket book will bear...just sayin'...
why would it be so expensive? It would not need carbon ceramic brakes.

a 500hp motor (preferrably the LSA/9 as boost is king at the strip) and a drive train that can handle the launches.

Get together with Pedders drag kit and leave the car alone.

No cage needed from the factory. No line locks, no trans brake, nada. I could just as easily say take the SS and buy a Pfadt/Pedders track kit, gut the car, add some brembos, wheels, and tires and off you go.

But a lot of people dont want to mess with their cars they just want to drive them.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:29 PM   #177
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why would it be so expensive? It would not need carbon ceramic brakes.

a 500hp motor (preferrably the LSA/9 as boost is king at the strip) and a drive train that can handle the launches.

Get together with Pedders drag kit and leave the car alone.

No cage needed from the factory. No line locks, no trans brake, nada. I could just as easily say take the SS and buy a Pfadt/Pedders track kit, gut the car, add some brembos, wheels, and tires and off you go.

But a lot of people dont want to mess with their cars they just want to drive them.
I hear ya...As much as I love the drags, I gotta say that "Golden Age" is not something that we'll see again... That would be getting back to the check box options from the factory that is just a thing of the past, unfortunately...

I really think the decision was made to not go the street/drag route, or we would have seen it already as a variant of the COPO program...

Like others have mentioned, it's all about the road-coarses these days...

Z/28, ZL-1, 1LE...hell, even the SS to a degree, its all about the track, more so than drags for sure...Just don't see much hope for the 1/4 mile theme to be a big seller...
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:34 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Boris632 View Post
why would it be so expensive? It would not need carbon ceramic brakes.

a 500hp motor (preferrably the LSA/9 as boost is king at the strip) and a drive train that can handle the launches.

Get together with Pedders drag kit and leave the car alone.

No cage needed from the factory. No line locks, no trans brake, nada. I could just as easily say take the SS and buy a Pedders track kit, gut the car, add some brembos, wheels, and tires and off you go.

But a lot of people dont want to mess with their cars they just want to drive them.


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Old 04-19-2013, 04:43 PM   #179
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:50 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post

The Z/28 is going to surprise a lot of people. I may be thrown out of the Milford Proving Grounds or the Ren Center for saying this, but I think the Camaro puts power down better than the Vette.


Do you think the spool-valve dampers are going to make a big difference?
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:55 PM   #181
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.....people not wanting to mess with their cars and just wanting to drive them plays a big part. Being younger, having the desire and ability to modify and work on all aspects of a car back in the day is not feasible for me now. I don't want to pay someone either to do the work for me, that's like having someone take my wife out to dinner. Also, having the factory warranty with a peace of mind is important to an older guy who wants a true high performance factory ride that he strived to attempt to build back in the day with toil, ingenuity, and determination. Stuff comes standard nowadays. Who really cares about if the ZL1 matches the historical lineage to a T, or that the Z/28 dosen't fit historical criteria, is going to be expensive as all heck with carbon ceramics, helical cut gears, DSSV dampers, and a 427 CID small block"? Only reason the LS7 is freed up for any model in '14 is that the C7 ain't using it anymore and there's guys in the build center on tap to run that line for a little while longer. It's a fantastic high reving, stoutly built motor with gorilla size displacement that can twist even higher and crank out more juice with minor modifications. Shoot, we couldn't even stroke 400 small blocks that big until stroker kits starting coming out, and the reliability factor wasn't that high either. One can always modify a SS, 1LE, ZL1, Z/28, or COPO with extra parts and goodies to meet their needs for speed in whatever venue they choose if they want to. GM.Chevy makes this stuff and gives us the opportunity to choose with our wallets how we want to go. These are the high times peep's, celebrate..don't hate.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:51 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Bomino View Post
GM simply isn't showing as much interest in straight line performance.

They want to get rid of the stigma that american cars cant turn, as the Europeans and the japanese say.

they are trying to appeal to that market, by creating a more balanced car. its exciting, because it is clear that this is what there goal is, and with the alpha based 6th gen, they will be able to dive more effectively into this market.

and its not just chevy... look at Ford with their Boss model. go check out the ford forums. LOTS of people that prefer the boss LS over the gt500. and now dodge making claims to put out a z/28 rival.

the one thing that still is and will continue to be true about american cars is that V8 roar. that is until CAFE butts in.

drag racing as a sport is shrinking, and road racing is growing.

It's OK guys, you don't need a mullet to drive a camaro any more.
There's also the fact that times have simply changed. In 1962 the world population was about 3 billion. Now it's 7 billion. Back in the 60's everybody street raced. The streets weren't congested with traffic like they are now. It was a standard activity on Friday and Saturday night to cruise the local burger joints, street race, hang out in the parking lots of the burger joints and talk about cars, girls and whatever. With over twice as many people in the world now it's no longer easy or safe to street race. Too many drivers on the road and way too many are clueless and slow.

Building a dedicated street racer in these current times is not an image any of the car companies want to have since that's like stirring up a hornets nest of self-righteous do-gooders, public safety hounds, etc. You can imagine the crapstorm backlash that would happen if a car company built and advertised a "killer" street racer and some idiot managed to accomplish just that; kill someone and/or himself with it street racing.

Much better to build impressive, high-powered track cars that emphasize overall performance including handling and braking. Much better (and safer liability-wise) than building and advertising a car to do something that's illegal in every state.

Times have changed. And while that may be sad for some who wanted just the street racer, overall it's fantastic for the performance enthusiast. Start with an SS or 1LE and build your street machine. Don't say it's the warranty that's stopping you; you voided the warranty the moment you took the car to the dragstrip. And you will DEFINITELY not have a warranty if you get busted for street racing.

The performance cars we're able to buy and drive right now to me are simply mind-blowing. The capabilities, reliability, quality, fit and finish is just astounding when you compare them to the cars of the 60's and early 70's.
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