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Old 04-22-2013, 01:26 AM   #69
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe GM has to do a full emissions, safety, crash certification process for every engine/car combo they produce. Which is seriously time-consuming and expensive. It's not like the old days where you could order the combo you wanted and they could build it (wish it was like that still). Dropping an LS7 into a 1LE just doesn't make economic sense when you consider they're already at the end of the 5th gen run and are gearing up for the 6th gen.

It works to make a new model like the Z/28 which sets the wheels-in-motion (no pun intended) for this category of car in the 6th gen. That puts in place the development team, the department, the budget and all the necessary corporate mechanisms to have this car become dominant in racing. Production cars that are dominant in racing sell street cars.

I find it HIGHLY interesting that Dodge has already declared they're working on a direct competitor to the Z/28. You KNOW that Ford isn't just sitting there watching all this and doing nothing. Do I detect the first breezes of a new manufacturer's championship series in the near future? I don't think the timing of all this is a coincidence. We are in very interesting times for auto enthusiasts.
would be sooooo fricken sweet to have a new manufacturers championship series. people my age will be talking about this as our heyday for cars the way my pops talks about the 60s and early 70s
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:29 AM   #70
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Really getting sick of this whole entitlement people are having over a badge. I want a Z28! I want an LS7! So you want a badge designed originally for the track, and a racing motor, but don't want to pay race car price for it.

Please. Go get the Z28 badge off a broken 4th gen in a yard, LT headers, cam, intake, exhaust, etc for your LS3 and go drive your Z28.

/rant off.
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:15 AM   #71
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The Z/28 is not a car for the masses and trying to make it one will give us a car like the 4th gen Z28.
They built it every gen didn't they? If they continue? It WILL end up as a 4th gen. was. They're going to build a 6th gen Z. Just watch and it'll be priced for more ppl to buy. There was 602 sold in 67. I haven't checked production numbers in 68 & 69, but take a look at the 2nd gen and tell me they didn't mass produce it.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:52 PM   #72
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That is what I am afraid of the 6th becoming z28 and not a z/28. They might make both who knows
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:54 PM   #73
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yup...I'd bet the 6th gen z28 is what our SS is. GM has said the 'SS' nomenclature is the sedan now.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:20 PM   #74
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yup...I'd bet the 6th gen z28 is what our SS is. GM has said the 'SS' nomenclature is the sedan now.
I believe we'll see the SS on next gens camaro as well. Here's the interesting thing. They're trademarking the chevelle. They trademarked the Z/28. You saw what happened. The chevelle will be brought back. Perhaps to "replace" the camaro? The barracuda is going to replace the challenger. When exactly that takes place on the camaro? No one knows but GM. But the chevelle if brought back will not be anything like we're hoping for probably. They're going to capitalize on the name. And they'll probably capitalize on the 6th gen as well. Rather than have 5th gen owners turn their noses up at the next gen, they'll make an attempt at besting the camaro for another 3-5 yrs and pop the chevelle name into the picture so everyone can oooh and ahhh about it.

SS and Z/28 next gen though unless they go like they did in late 2nd gen and lose it. Which they may! We'll see
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:37 PM   #75
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gm wanted to stick true to the z28 history and give us the most expensive Camaro ever! this Camaro is in no way like the first z28.....sure someone turned it into a track car and raced it, but this isn't exactly that..... that wasn't done in house. and all the z28's of later years were crap....especially my favorite(sarcasm)....the late 2nd gens and early 3rd gens! so really, there is nothing in this car that shows me what rolled off the line in 69....... its going to be overpriced.....in a new category of cars because the price has taken it out of the American sports car category and thrown it into the European car category...... this is why it will fail. it will be a hit amongst Camaro enthusiast....but not the rest of the world....Europeans will laugh.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:54 PM   #76
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gm wanted to stick true to the z28 history and give us the most expensive Camaro ever! this Camaro is in no way like the first z28.....sure someone turned it into a track car and raced it, but this isn't exactly that..... that wasn't done in house. and all the z28's of later years were crap....especially my favorite(sarcasm)....the late 2nd gens and early 3rd gens! so really, there is nothing in this car that shows me what rolled off the line in 69....... its going to be overpriced.....in a new category of cars because the price has taken it out of the American sports car category and thrown it into the European car category...... this is why it will fail. it will be a hit amongst Camaro enthusiast....but not the rest of the world....Europeans will laugh.
I agree about the history and europeans will never drool over this Z/28.

They know they screwed it up and IMO a camaro purist has blinders on not to see it. It's going to be a great car to own! But they could've done something with an SS to stay true to homeage and offer 25-50HP option on the SS at the very least.

I posted my thoughts on the future of camaro, but they may not make a 6th gen. It's quite possible they hang it up instead of ****ing it up. Who knows? Somehow I think the camaro if made into a 6th gen will be a 3 yr production and then ended.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:46 PM   #77
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from what ive heard the "6th gen is underway and has been for a while....or the next alpha platform vehicle. supposedly its not going to have camaro styling to it and will be all new. they could very well change the name of what would be the camaro just to draw more interest.

on the european topic....they dont like much about any of our cars. automatic transmissions are crap on high performance vehicles.... seats are junk.... plastics...cars too big..too heavy.... they dont like the ls motors...too slow reving....and they hate chrome.... i dont see how they can say this is a "track car" true to its roots, when the thing weighs almost 4k lbs!!! thats not true to its " light weight" roots..... everyone in racing knows, you need a light car.... not a heavy pig with light rear glass...
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:42 PM   #78
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from what ive heard the "6th gen is underway and has been for a while....or the next alpha platform vehicle. supposedly its not going to have camaro styling to it and will be all new. they could very well change the name of what would be the camaro just to draw more interest.

on the european topic....they dont like much about any of our cars. automatic transmissions are crap on high performance vehicles.... seats are junk.... plastics...cars too big..too heavy.... they dont like the ls motors...too slow reving....and they hate chrome.... i dont see how they can say this is a "track car" true to its roots, when the thing weighs almost 4k lbs!!! thats not true to its " light weight" roots..... everyone in racing knows, you need a light car.... not a heavy pig with light rear glass...
lol well they have trademarked the chevelle recently! So a name change isnt too far off!
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:46 PM   #79
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this is why it will fail. it will be a hit amongst Camaro enthusiast....but not the rest of the world....Europeans will laugh.
The Z/28 is going to run into the same problem Corvette's do when they get compared to european cars. Yeah it may be faster, perform better at less of a price, but they will argue "its still a Camaro." Sad part is that is how the world will look at, just a camaro. Just like many people did when M/T compared the ZR1 to a Ferrari, many looked down at the ZR1 bc it was just a corvette. It's sad, but true
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:56 PM   #80
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Who gives a rat's ass what the Europeans think about the Camaro, that is not the MAIN intended market for it. Sure you'll get a small minority of people over there who have an appreciation for pony/muscle cars, but to think we are trying to win over BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini drivers, that's just..... GM is trying to satisfy the niche here. How did this get into a debate about how long the Camaro was going to last...again?
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:16 PM   #81
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Who gives a rat's ass what the Europeans think about the Camaro, that is not the MAIN intended market for it. Sure you'll get a small minority of people over there who have an appreciation for pony/muscle cars, but to think we are trying to win over BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini drivers, that's just..... GM is trying to satisfy the niche here. How did this get into a debate about how long the Camaro was going to last...again?
I agree, I don't care what Europeans think about our cars.

This I don't agree. Reason being is with maybe the exception of Ferrari and Lamborghini, those mentioned among OTHER foreign cars play a major role in track racing TODAY. This is NOT Chevy Camaro vs ford and dodge. Those days are long gone! The corvette is racing against all the euro cars you've mentioned and the camaro is getting its feet wet in track racing these models though that's short lived....
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:30 PM   #82
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Who gives a rat's ass what the Europeans think about the Camaro, that is not the MAIN intended market for it. Sure you'll get a small minority of people over there who have an appreciation for pony/muscle cars, but to think we are trying to win over BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini drivers, that's just..... GM is trying to satisfy the niche here. How did this get into a debate about how long the Camaro was going to last...again?
because the camaro will be put into a group with track ready cars like porsche...thats why it matters. its out of any classes here in the US market... so now you need to find cars to compare it against....not to mention its higher price will throw it right out of most comparissons of US cars...... you tell me who it should be compared to?
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:33 PM   #83
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I agree, I don't care what Europeans think about our cars.

This I don't agree. Reason being is with maybe the exception of Ferrari and Lamborghini, those mentioned among OTHER foreign cars play a major role in track racing TODAY. This is NOT Chevy Camaro vs ford and dodge. Those days are long gone! The corvette is racing against all the euro cars you've mentioned and the camaro is getting its feet wet in track racing these models though that's short lived....
there is good and bad tt this car and gm now. because everything in GM is getting better, weve basically beaten all US car companies across the board. now GM is going for the world market. like the ATS aiming at the 3 series...and the new CTS... the new vette aiming at the Ferrari. Cadillac bringing its luxury to a new level comparable to Mercedes. this camaro is now in a league of its own and needs competition. where else to look but the more expensive European market.
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:38 PM   #84
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The Z/28 is going to run into the same problem Corvette's do when they get compared to european cars. Yeah it may be faster, perform better at less of a price, but they will argue "its still a Camaro." Sad part is that is how the world will look at, just a camaro. Just like many people did when M/T compared the ZR1 to a Ferrari, many looked down at the ZR1 bc it was just a corvette. It's sad, but true
american cars a great bang for your buck...but you get better quality out of european cars....as far as fit and finish and just pure heritage. porsche, mercedes, audi, bmw....all have great heritage in the race world and make great motors and even better automatic shifter. GM paddle shifters suck compared ot a porsche or mercedes. this is where alot of european dollars go to. not to mention there suspension are years ahead of US. these are just some reasons why euro cars are more pricier than US. chevy is just finally (last 10 years maybe)listening to the racing world with the corvette racing team and using that info for the cars. all the european names i listed have been integrating their findings from racing into the street cars for decades.
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:44 PM   #85
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I agree, I don't care what Europeans think about our cars.

This I don't agree. Reason being is with maybe the exception of Ferrari and Lamborghini, those mentioned among OTHER foreign cars play a major role in track racing TODAY. This is NOT Chevy Camaro vs ford and dodge. Those days are long gone! The corvette is racing against all the euro cars you've mentioned and the camaro is getting its feet wet in track racing these models though that's short lived....
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because the camaro will be put into a group with track ready cars like porsche...thats why it matters. its out of any classes here in the US market... so now you need to find cars to compare it against....not to mention its higher price will throw it right out of most comparissons of US cars...... you tell me who it should be compared to?
You guys are talking about the 2%'ers, I'm talking about the other 98% that just want a Camaro for everyday driving. I'm not sure if you realize this but we aren't really competing when those of us have cars that take it to the road track for HPDE sessions. You're looking for optimal performance when you do and to get the most bang for the buck, and in that regards, we have those euro boys beat by a mile when comparing new to new.

You can't compare a Camaro to Porsche in one sense because they are two different types of cars. Though it is cool that we can now be at a level to perform almost as well. I think if the growth of HPDE is for real, we will be fine. Just get out there and have fun
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