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Old 04-23-2013, 04:11 PM   #26
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Your disrespectful response is out of place in this thread

Perhaps you should open a geometry textbook?

I believe you should consider re-reading all the thread. Hardly worth further comment

Have a good day, nevertheless


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Old 04-23-2013, 04:33 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by newb View Post
If you look at the 1LE dyno thread they are putting mid 390s to low 400 Hp to the rollers. This is on average about 15 Hp more to the ground than previous SS cars. I haven't seen numbers for 13 SS cars but I suspect they make more than the 12s as well since the EPS came standard for 13.

If you look at the 1LE differences you will find your answer. All of the little parts add up to better acceleration and a lighter feeling car.

@newb:

That's yet another interesting angle.

You are right in that the Dyno numbers for the first and second year SS are way lower than 400's, actually lower than 390. Lots of power losses.

If the 1LE can Dyno above 390 or around 400 then that completes the picture.

I now feel a bit bad, kinda left out...

Is good info to know, I truly appreciate your contribution to clarify this issue.

It seems, money per mph the 1LE exceeds all expectations, probably surpasses the Z/28 if you account for cost vs. content vs. performance.

Safe driving,

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Old 04-23-2013, 04:39 PM   #28
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Anyhow , gajagfan & TedW clarified the issue confirming the indication from JeffInDFW that indeed a different transmission is key to the improved times. The more aggressive diff and the rest of the changes already discussed here make up the story.
Why do you say it's the transmission? It's the gearing and to be honest the only place the gearing makes a difference is in fourth gear since it's direct drive. The gearing inside the MM6 is different from the M10 which makes the gearing the same in pretty much all the gears except fourth. It has an effect, but less of an effect than putting in 3.91's and keeping all the internal ratios the same.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
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Hardly worth further comment



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Sorry, you can't change science. I was dead serious about that textbook remark. If you took it as an insult, perhaps you need it more than I thought. Keep in mind, the thread is titled "these numbers don't make sense" and it's only composed of people explaining why your logic is flawed. All you have done is defend your flawed logic. Why did you even ask the question in the first place if you knew you were already correct and infallible? You should have just made the statement and left.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:53 PM   #30
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Two cars leave the line at the same time, one accelerates to 100mph, the other to 88 mph. Unless the latter is a DeLorean, is it possible to overtake the former? NO!

I see the point you are trying to make but I actually partially disagree. Off topic I know but higher trap speed does not ensure a win. Lets take your example.

If two cars leave the line at the same time and one reaches 88 mph before the 60 ft mark but stops accelerating there and the second car doesn't reach 88 till well down track but accelerates to 100. The 88 would win. No these are not exact numbers but you see the point.

Rate of acceleration plays a big part in the ability to cover ground quickly. Gearing plays a large part in rate of acceleration. Ever see a drag race where two cars leave the same time but one is fast out of the hole and the other is a better top end car? Makes for some interesting finishes at the big end.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:49 PM   #31
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You both are correct in statements. But you are talking about two different points.

My EVo would run a 1.5 60ft and destroy most high 9 and 10 second cars to the 1/8. But in the big end of the track the faster cars would freight train me and pass me because I was on a stock Turbo and would run out of steam. My 122 trap speed and 11.3 was no match for 130+ trap speeds even though I was faster to the 1/8 mile due to traction and gearing.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:24 PM   #32
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The win will go to the vehicle with the higher average speed through the quarter mile, and thus the lower ET. It is how a Top Fuel dragster can blow the tires off, run a 9 sec quarter mile with a 90 mph trap speed.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:32 PM   #33
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Hmmm. I think the proof is at the track. The 1LE quarter mile times I have seen posted are right around standard LS3 times. The stickier tires and slightly lighter wheels are an advantage. No proven advantage for NPP or electric PS. The for sure shift to 4th hurts.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:04 PM   #34
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Since op thought the time margin was 3sec instead of 0.3sec, this thread is useless and based on a mistake.

This thread should be deleted and it is a waste of time reading posting here.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:42 PM   #35
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Since op thought the time margin was 3sec instead of 0.3sec, this thread is useless and based on a mistake.

This thread should be deleted and it is a waste of time reading posting here.
I agree. Op also seems to have posted without first reading simple literature on the 1LE.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:51 PM   #36
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I agree. Op also seems to have posted without first reading simple literature on the 1LE.
I concur. Especially when there is a sticky at the top of the page that lists all of the features of the 1LE.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:16 AM   #37
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Question

Did anyone consider the sticker tires as part of the 0-60 time?
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:15 AM   #38
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Did anyone consider the sticker tires as part of the 0-60 time?
Yes. If you had read the posts in the thread it was mentioned a few times.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:25 PM   #39
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I see the point you are trying to make but I actually partially disagree. Off topic I know but higher trap speed does not ensure a win. Lets take your example.

If two cars leave the line at the same time and one reaches 88 mph before the 60 ft mark but stops accelerating there and the second car doesn't reach 88 till well down track but accelerates to 100. The 88 would win. No these are not exact numbers but you see the point.

Rate of acceleration plays a big part in the ability to cover ground quickly. Gearing plays a large part in rate of acceleration. Ever see a drag race where two cars leave the same time but one is fast out of the hole and the other is a better top end car? Makes for some interesting finishes at the big end.

@newb:

Very well explained and very kind of you to take the time to cover the issue for other readers benefit.

Anyone who has participated, seriously participated, in drag racing events understands, or even better, has experienced such conditions first hand.

Mostly in motorcycles, where trick carb jetting (this of course predates current fuel injection bikes) and final drives (tranny sprocket to rear wheel sprocket relationship) made enormous differences in the same exact bike model you could see the brutal reality of this, also because you could the cover 1/4 mile with gearless upshift.

The first half meant nothing..., we all the new the business was in the second half of those 400 meters.

Like you wrote, the finishes were "interesting"... more like heart-crushing because at club level, the talent among the top performers was pretty much even, so when you lost the sleeve by a margin, you knew that your setting was rubbish for that weekend, which meant you lost even before you showed up at the lights, and that was confidence crushing.




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Old 04-25-2013, 11:53 PM   #40
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I concur. Especially when there is a sticky at the top of the page that lists all of the features of the 1LE.
@bad@asscamaro, scubaado7, whammo :

Read my first and second posts in this thread. I'm clearly referring to a 0.3 sec difference.

The figures are there very clearly written.

I had a brief lapse for a couple of posts when I wrote 3 sec, a lapse which I acknowledged and corrected later, yet even then it can be inferred I'm writing/thinking about a three tenths gap.

Such inference falls flat on its face as a three second difference (from an SS which is able to do 4.6 or 4.7 0-60mph times in stock trim) would mean that a stock 1LE was doing what... 1.6 secs / 0-60???? 9secs to the quarter???

Yeah,, right !!! And if a pig had wings, it would be a B-2 bomber.

We are trying here to have a serious, intelligent discussion about a topic that was featured in an international auto magazine as factual, yet I have subsequently found (youtube search yesterday) other established sources which results contradict this.

I thought it would be relevant/of interest to any SS or 1LE owner.

Feel free to join, leave or simply watch, yet I respectfully think it is up to forum moderators to decide if the thread is worth continuing or not.

Drive safe,


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Old 04-26-2013, 12:18 AM   #41
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@bad@asscamaro, scubaado7, whammo :

Read my first and second posts in this thread. I'm clearly referring to a 0.3 sec difference.

The figures are there very clearly written.

I had a brief lapse for a couple of posts when I wrote 3 sec, a lapse which I acknowledged and corrected later, yet even then it can be inferred I'm writing/thinking about a three tenths gap.

Such inference falls flat on its face as a three second difference (from an SS which is able to do 4.6 or 4.7 0-60mph times in stock trim) would mean that a stock 1LE was doing what... 1.6 secs / 0-60???? 9secs to the quarter???

Yeah,, right !!! And if a pig had wings, it would be a B-2 bomber.

We are trying here to have a serious, intelligent discussion about a topic that was featured in an international auto magazine as factual, yet I have subsequently found (youtube search yesterday) other established sources which results contradict this.

I thought it would be relevant/of interest to any SS or 1LE owner.

Feel free to join, leave or simply watch, yet I respectfully think it is up to forum moderators to decide if the thread is worth continuing or not.

Drive safe,


The Flash
They weren't clearly written at first. If they had been you would have thought twice about posting the thread over such a trivial matter about what a magazine writes. It seems that it would be advantageous on your part to spend more time in the 1LE section, so as you would have been more informed there than from what a magazine has written.

There is also another thread that involves people who race on a regular basis that would have been more keen to your question(s). http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=134

God Bless and hope your day is full of joy
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:38 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Dropspeed View Post
You both are correct in statements. But you are talking about two different points.

My EVo would run a 1.5 60ft and destroy most high 9 and 10 second cars to the 1/8. But in the big end of the track the faster cars would freight train me and pass me because I was on a stock Turbo and would run out of steam. My 122 trap speed and 11.3 was no match for 130+ trap speeds even though I was faster to the 1/8 mile due to traction and gearing.
@Dropspeed :

Yours is a text book example. Your Evo actually had a traction advantage (4w drive right??) and the turbo gave you a kick a$$ jolt a few feet from the launch gate, yet cars that where just opening their lungs by the 1/8 mark would come back at you with a vengeance.




Fraxum Hmmm. I think the proof is at the track. The 1LE quarter mile times I have seen posted are right around standard LS3 times. The stickier tires and slightly lighter wheels are an advantage. No proven advantage for NPP or electric PS. The for sure shift to 4th hurts.


@Fraxum:

You might be right and wiser than us all speculating here

Last night, I found many videos loaded in YOUTUBE about driving impressions on the 1LE, some even posting 0-60mph times that were not far from standard SS times (with no clarification on the acquisition of these figures - were they repeating manufacturer's estimates, or did their own measurements) yet nothing still about 1/4 miles.

Again, the idea crosses my mind that MT may have been handed, unknowingly, a ringer for their test.

And yes, the extra shift might, every now and then, cost you a sleeve you otherwise had bagged in.

Regards,


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Old 04-26-2013, 01:49 AM   #43
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