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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 05-06-2013, 03:09 PM   #51
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why do people continue to buy cars with HUGE markups??????????????????????
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:07 PM   #52
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I would not be shocked one bit if my local dealer has a 15-20K markup on the car.
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
why do people continue to buy cars with HUGE markups??????????????????????
Oh you can believe they're going to try, and for some there will be that idiot who's used to spending $100k+ who'll gladly pay $75k-$80k because to him it's "cheap" by comparison.

Most people don't know how to buy a car; never buy from a salesman. Go straight to the finance guy or the owner if he/she's there. The salesman is going to waste your time trying to mark up as much as possible; will spend 15 mins working up a ridiculous finance plan and come back with a "monthly" payment circled. When you multiply out that "monthly" payment he's acting like is such a deal by the number of months of the loan (usually 60), you'll find you're spending $90k for a $60k car.

He's going back and forth (supposedly) to the finance manager and wasting half your day with all this nonsense. In actuality he's probably going back and forth with the assistant or actual sales manager; not the finance manager. He may actually be just sitting in an office somewhere in the back "sweating" you because that's a well-known tactic. If you're tired and have been there awhile (which is why they drag things out so long) you're much more likely to just "go along" with what they want in order to just get the car and get out of there. DON'T FALL FOR THAT!!!

If you cut out the middle-man (salesman/sales manager) and go straight to either the finance manager or dealership owner, you have a much better chance of simply buying the car at MSRP without all the mark-up crappola. And if those guys start the mark-up nonsense then find another dealer.

They may tell you "I'll call one of my sales guys" but stop him/her. Say "They don't want to sell me a car, they just want to play games. I don't have all day. I just want to pay the MSRP without all the mark-up and nonsense. Do you want to make a sale?" Don't let them put you back in the salesman/sales manager loop UNLESS they've agreed to start the paperwork at MSRP.

READ THE FINAL PAPERWORK CAREFULLY and make SURE they haven't slipped something else back in there, such as an alarm system, or some other "extra" you didn't ask for, didn't tell them to put on there, and DO NOT WANT. They'll act all shocked and surprised and say it can't be removed or whatever but you just tell them you're not paying for that and this is EXACTLY the kind of games you told them up front you weren't going to play. STICK TO YOUR GUNS and make them either remove it, give it to you without extra charge, or walk and find someplace else.

You'll be amazed at how quickly "can't be done" can change once they've typed up all the paperwork and were expecting you to sign but instead you stand up to walk out because they tried to pull a fast one.

Get your financing FIRST before you go in (or pay cash) so you have the leverage of telling them "if you want to sell a car today, I'll pay MSRP without any extras or mark-ups and I'll buy it right now. If you don't want to sell a car today, just start giving me the run-around and I'll walk right out the door to one of your competitors who does want to sell a car."

I don't pay mark-ups; never have, never will.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:41 PM   #53
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this car is going to cost a lot more then you guy think, and it will be out in less time then 1 year, (not by much ) i say in time you will see.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:46 PM   #54
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why do people continue to buy cars with HUGE markups??????????????????????
You would think buying the car at MSRP would be a HUGE enough mark-up by itself....lol.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:58 PM   #55
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You would think buying the car at MSRP would be a HUGE enough mark-up by itself....lol.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:31 PM   #56
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why do people continue to buy cars with HUGE markups??????????????????????
Bc some people have to be the first to have something,
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:07 AM   #57
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...I disagree, it's more than that in a way,...having the expendable income outweighs the need to shop around or put in the extensive effort to get one at MSRP....especially in the first MY release. Even at MSRP these cars are not beer money priced, they are high end. Not as in Euro high end, but for the working class, they ain't cheap. I am sure some purchased it as a status symbol thing and sold it when the ashtray got full <old saying> just because they could. They as a whole go through many new in vogue rides just for sport. But, not many have the where with all or financial means to do that. I wish I had the cabbage to throw around like that.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:43 AM   #58
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I remember reading a few different stories about the new SRT8 Challengers (when first launched) people paid 20K over sticker just to "have it"

My dad looked at one (old mopar guy at heart) but the local dealer wanted 10k over sticker. No thanks.

I was in the same boat when the new VW R32s came out. Totally different car than what VW released before - AWD, biggest engine, all the luxuries of an Audi etc. 32k sticker hard to find one locally for under 35.

Waited 6 months and found 3 in Chicago for 26k OTD.

I have said before I expect the Z/28 to have a few thousand built and sold. If this is a car that makes it to dealer lots as a halo car there will be some sitting come fall of 2014. At that point I can see them being let go under MSRP.

Just have to play the waiting game. (and believe that this car will not be that limited)
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:52 AM   #59
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....My take is the desirability and additional mark-up won't be for the showing-off factor, but more being able to get out racing sooner....Keep 5K-10K in your pocket and not be able to race for several weeks...several months...miss a "season"?....

Not judging anybody, but a mark-up sounds like chump-change to get one in hand and get out on the track with it, instead of missing out entirely....
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:15 AM   #60
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I know the owner of the dealership I bought my ZL1 from. They are a small, family owned dealership so they are not sure how the Z/28 allocation will be done but they said that if they do get an allocation, it will be sold at MSRP. They sold me my ZL1 at $3.5K under sticker and said as a dealership policy, they do not mark up cars regardless of availability. I am #2 on the list there so I sure hope the at least get 2 in their allocation.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:22 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
...I disagree, it's more than that in a way,...having the expendable income outweighs the need to shop around or put in the extensive effort to get one at MSRP....especially in the first MY release. Even at MSRP these cars are not beer money priced, they are high end. Not as in Euro high end, but for the working class, they ain't cheap. I am sure some purchased it as a status symbol thing and sold it when the ashtray got full <old saying> just because they could. They as a whole go through many new in vogue rides just for sport. But, not many have the where with all or financial means to do that. I wish I had the cabbage to throw around like that.
Oh so the answer is more money than brains! I'll agree with that.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:25 AM   #62
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They should throw in a couple spare splitters regardless of msrp, most will have a shelf life of produce.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:42 PM   #63
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Oh so the answer is more money than brains! I'll agree with that.
...yup...just takes money, no brains at all....
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:36 PM   #64
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I totally get the gearing taking mph off the top but if these #'s are accurate I don't quite understand the 0-60 time @ 4.2. It just seems to me that if I throw a 3:91 gear in the car, take 300 pounds off her, and have the hp/torque #'s we have been told that it should be sub 4. I know you don't time a road course car from a dead stop so I get it is irrelevant for the purpose of the car but I just find that a bit odd. I am not slamming the car, especially since this is all speculation it just seems to not add up to me.

The ZL1 is 300 lbs heavier to make it kill at the launch. Launching is ZL1 territory. THE STREET is ZL1 territory. Z28 is no compromise track killer, and you only launch once in a race around the track. Stay waiting for those Ring times...I am pessemistic for the Z28
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:28 PM   #65
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it keeps getting more holes in it's armor...

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According to GM/Media specifications, the gearbox ratios for the 2014 Z-28 and the 2013 1LE are identical, apparently they are going to use the same TR6060. Also, the first four gear ratios are identical for the ZL1, Z-28, and 1LE, the only difference is gears 5 and 6, with the Z-28/1LE having .74 for 5th, and .50 for 6th, with the ZL1 having .80 for 5th, and .63 for 6th.
Contrary to others post saying that this might be a track purposed trans, the trans is not geared for track usage if the 6th is a 0.50. That is a "save gas" gear that wont be usable for top speed. so much for "no compromise." So top speed is not gear ratio limited, but is limited to power versus wind resistance. a case of enough balls to push that brick any faster. They should have given the car a true close ratio with 6 usable gears if it was a "no compromise car"
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:28 AM   #66
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Contrary to others post saying that this might be a track purposed trans, the trans is not geared for track usage if the 6th is a 0.50. That is a "save gas" gear that wont be usable for top speed. so much for "no compromise." So top speed is not gear ratio limited, but is limited to power versus wind resistance. a case of enough balls to push that brick any faster. They should have given the car a true close ratio with 6 usable gears if it was a "no compromise car"
The 2014 Z-28 transmission information is listed through Chevy media. This may or may not be what will arrive in the car at time of production. In reality, this is not a true no compromise car. It's a production body stripped of a few non essentials to shed weight. It is using alot of items previously used on other production Camaro and Corvette vehicles. There are a few new engineered things incorporated into it, like the DSSV dampers, helical cut rear axle gears, thinner rear window glass, and CAI intake. I wonder what the RPM is at 186 MPH in high gear for the ZL1 when the fuel shuts off and limits the big end. The ZL1 has 3.73 rear axle gears. The Z-28 and the 1LE have 3.91. gears. Using the existing 1-4 tranny gearing through all 3 models seems to be a compromise no doubt. However, the car may not be power limited and it will pull in 6th up to whatever limit they place on it. Since it's a street production/track vehicle like the ZL1, it surely will be speed limited up top. So, the OD gears are probably cut a tad bit higher in the Z-28/1LE TR6060 to compensate for the lower final drive ratio and won't constrict the brick like cars with lesser HP and TQ would be affected. Plus, don't forget the Z-28 has 19" square rubber that will lower the gearing a bit more.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:31 PM   #67
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they made it a street car. Kind of hard to make it a "no compromise" track car.

That OD is for the MPG rating.

Had this been a real no compromise track car it would not have a VIN or a backseat etc.

This is about as close as one will get to a street version of a factory race car.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:39 PM   #68
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they made it a street car. Kind of hard to make it a "no compromise" track car.

That OD is for the MPG rating.

Had this been a real no compromise track car it would not have a VIN or a backseat etc.

This is about as close as one will get to a street version of a factory race car.

EXACTLY!
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:24 PM   #69
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And...if it has the close ratio gearbox, it likely needs a shift before 60 mph which will make the 0-60 time longer.

We have no idea if this speculated information is correct, and if it is, I just don't care. It doesn't matter for those of us who will use the car for its intended purpose.
Actually a close-ratio gearbox would mean the opposite--it will have a taller 1st gear. As the name implies, the ratios will be closer together, and with 4th gear being a 1:1, that means ratios 1-3 will be higher and closer than with the standard trans. In addition, a short 1st gear would be pretty much worthless on most road courses. The tall 1st gear would probably mean a 0-60 run in 1st gear but difficult to launch between bogging and lighting up the tires. It's also not an optimal gear for a standing start acceleration run.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:48 PM   #70
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I believe in a close ratio box for track first gear is usually short not tall as it's used for getting the car moving not at speed. Most races are done in gears 2-5.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:51 PM   #71
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they made it a street car. Kind of hard to make it a "no compromise" track car.

That OD is for the MPG rating.

Had this been a real no compromise track car it would not have a VIN or a backseat etc.

This is about as close as one will get to a street version of a factory race car.
...all true, it's a compromise, rather than no compromise. It had to be that way, otherwise make it like a COPO deal, off road only with no VIN...
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:48 AM   #72
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If the 170 mph top speed is correct, and I hope against hope that it is correct, then the enthusiasts have the final and ultimate proof that this is a no compromise track car.

Trackrats understand with crystal clarity. Top speed numbers are utterly meaningless except to magazine induced mental masturbators. Just like 1/4 mile and 0-60 times. Useless information for use on track.

Give me a close ratio gearbox that allows the engine to pull like a locomotive in every single gear, and that allows me to be in the right gear for every corner, that is what I want. Not a top-speed numerical compromise meant to appeal to the unthinking sheep.

170 mph top speed: Please, please let it be true...
Wow thats a really great point!
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:41 PM   #73
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I love reading all of our opinions, for the same thing we can come up with two or three responses, what it all boils down to is what it shows up with on the car lot.

Love opinions!
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:45 PM   #74
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Bc some people have to be the first to have something,
True. I'll be right there at the pre owned lot picking up their sloppy seconds. Lol
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