Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Grabiak Performance Center
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension / Brakes / Chassis

Suspension / Brakes / Chassis All suspension, brakes and chassis discussions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-04-2013, 04:59 AM   #1
IPT

 
Drives: '02 Trailblazer, '12 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AK
Posts: 781
I have questions for people lowered with coilovers

Well, the shop finally called back so the Pedders pace car package will be going in end of the month.

Seems to me the front of these cars ride a tad high vs the rears. So those of you with coilovers, how much did you drop your ride? Would love to see pics of it with the drop stats! Anyone drop her and then change either up or down? In my mind I see 1.5 rear and 1.75 front. I want that wheel gap to barely be there. Then the Forgelines from Tony go on, sweet, I can hardly wait!

For those of you with the Pedders XA coilovers, what settings are you using? I find the stock ride good, stiff, but good. Like a sports car should be.. I am shooting for the same, or slightly firmer for performance.
IPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 06:12 AM   #2
Synner


 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6
Join Date: May 2011
Location: overseas
Posts: 3,548
I set them at 1" lower, they settled about another 1/4" after breaking in the springs which is normal. Keep that in mind as you set their height. Also, if you're only concerned with looks then you may want to wait until the new wheel/tire combo is on. If you readjust the height you'd need another alignment which would be a waste of money a month apart.

I have double adjustables so I can't speak to settings for yours.
Synner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 06:49 PM   #3
IPT

 
Drives: '02 Trailblazer, '12 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AK
Posts: 781
good point synner. The overall tires are the same diameter but the offsets are different (from Nineball). I was hesitant to sed the car there with the new wheels on. I figure they'll be dinkering around and didn't want them to get scratched or messed up. Maybe i need to reconsider and put the wheels on before the do the install....
IPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 10:22 AM   #4
SPCBA
Blake
 
SPCBA's Avatar
 
Drives: pleather and Chiclets
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: a VA line somwhere
Posts: 3,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPT View Post
good point synner. The overall tires are the same diameter but the offsets are different (from Nineball). I was hesitant to sed the car there with the new wheels on. I figure they'll be dinkering around and didn't want them to get scratched or messed up. Maybe i need to reconsider and put the wheels on before the do the install....
yes
__________________
SPCBA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 09:58 PM   #5
lionssfan
drive it like U stold it
 
lionssfan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2ss camaro
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: mi
Posts: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPT View Post
good point synner. The overall tires are the same diameter but the offsets are different (from Nineball). I was hesitant to sed the car there with the new wheels on. I figure they'll be dinkering around and didn't want them to get scratched or messed up. Maybe i need to reconsider and put the wheels on before the do the install....
I waited for the same reason, I didn't want my new rims damaged
lionssfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 10:42 PM   #6
JusticePete
CamaroCross Founder
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,688
The ideal height with 20" wheels is 660mm front and rear. Set the fronts to 16 off full hard. Set the rears to 8 off full hard. Be sure to have the shop watch the video for pre-load and bench setting ride height.
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 03:10 AM   #7
IPT

 
Drives: '02 Trailblazer, '12 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AK
Posts: 781
Link to the video Pete? (Also sent you a PM - thanks for all the support!).

My new Rims and tires are the same diameter as stock - should I risk them or have the set it up with the stock setup?

At 660mm how much of a drop from stock is that (usually)?
IPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 02:43 PM   #8
JusticePete
CamaroCross Founder
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,688
The 2013 5th Gen delivers with a revised strut mount. The upper potion of the mount appears to be unchanged, but the lower mount and bearing have changed.



The redesign has nothing to do with any strut noises in our opinion. It is possible the driver was cost reduction. The revision to the steel and urethane insulator (the steel plate is wider and flatter) distributes load without the need of an additional plastic seat (the gray plastic on the older style mount).



The dimensional change required an adjustment by Pedders to our billet aluminum coil to OEM mount adapter plate. The 2013 plate has a larger I.D. center hole and is a bit taller. The 2010 - 2012 billet plate mounts directly to the OEM bearing / mount. The 2013 uses the OEM steel and urethane insulator.



Here is the Xa and Supercar coilover stack assembly process. It starts with the coilover, bumpstop, boot and washer.



Slide them on in that order.



Add the coilover spring.



Next we add the OEM mount. The gold tone washer is supplied by Pedders and replaces the OEM washer. We have already added it to the assembly stack, but show it here to make the process more clear. The black plastic coil insulator goes to the spring side of the billet aluminum adapter plate and directly to the OEM mount for 5th Gens made between 2010 and 2012. On the top side of the OEM mount we re-use the OEM black conical washer and 24mm jam nut.



The completed assembly looks like this.



The ONLY difference for a 2013 is that we re-use the OEM urethane and steel insulator. The complete assembly looks like this.



The top view for all years looks just like the OEM assembly.



The coilover stack is a bit different when using our new Dual Bearing Camber Plates. Discard the gold tone washer supplied with your Pedders coilovers. All you'll use in the assembly stack are the bumpstop, boot, plastic coil insulator, lower spring perch with banded thurst bearing, the camber plate and special nut supplied with the camber plate.



The assembled coilover with dual bearing camber plate looks like this from the side.



And this from the top.



How easy is that? Our next challenge is to make setting coil pre-compresion and ride height before installing the coilovers on your 5th Gen as easy as the assembly.

Setting the pre-compression on the coils is mission critical. Too many installers fail to read the directions because they 'know' how to adjust a coilover. When you lower a car by lowering the spring perch you lose suspension travel and compromise ride quality and handling. Bouncing off the bumpstops is not good in a high speed turn on a track. Let's get it right. Anyone care to watch the video?

Caution: This is a purely technical How-To. Grab an Double espresso before watching.



When you know how to do it right, it really is easy. When we did an install on Glen's 1LE at BlackJack Speed Shop we scaled the car before and after.



First, how great are the straight from the factory weights at each corner of the 1LE!?! Kudos and well done TEAM Chevrolet.

With Glen in the 1LE and a 1/2 tank of fuel the 1LE is track ready at 4131 stock. After adding Pedders 1LE 32mm rear balance bar, radius bushes, sub-frame bushes, front adjustable length endlinks and Pedders Supercar coilovers the 1LE is 5 pounds lighter. The ride height deviation side to side total on the stock coils is 12mm. Setting the coil pre-compresion and ride height as shown in the video the Supercar equipped 1LE has a total ride height deviation of only 3mm.

The front side to side difference in weight is reduced from 34 pounds factory to 21 pounds Pedderised. In the rear the OE difference is 50 pounds and the Pedderised difference is 56 pounds. There is a difference between scaling a car to identify the weight load at each wheel and corner-weighting when we adjust ride heights to balance out the weight at each wheel. We did not have time to corner weight Glen's 1LE.

We did have time to align Glen's 1LE with his dual bearing camber plates. Glen has a conservative daily driver alignment and an aggressive AC / Road Course alignment built in. By loosening four set screws at each of his front camber plates we can drop into street or track mode in a matter of 15 minutes. We added to additional holes to make the plate adjustment easier.



Glen will get them painted so the install looks super clean. Next take a look at the differences between Glen's drive to the track and don't wear out my tires street alignment and his ready to race alignment.



Trackside was add Negative Front Camber and Tow Out. We can add a LOT and then pull it back to the conservative street specs. The next time we work on Glen's 1LE we'll add caster bolts front and camber bolts rear. This will give us a greater range of adjustment to dial his already great handling 1LE in even more.

We hope this post makes you Pedders Coilover and / or Camber Plate Installation easier and more accurate.
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 02:44 PM   #9
JusticePete
CamaroCross Founder
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPT View Post
Link to the video Pete? (Also sent you a PM - thanks for all the support!).

My new Rims and tires are the same diameter as stock - should I risk them or have the set it up with the stock setup?

At 660mm how much of a drop from stock is that (usually)?
30mm front and 40mm rear.
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 02:45 PM   #10
RaiderSS
 
RaiderSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS2 DeadBLK
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 387
Pedders XA's- I wanted mine lower in the rear because I like the pit bull stance...
Attached Images
  
__________________
RaiderSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 04:57 PM   #11
jeremywes
 
jeremywes's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro SS
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
The ideal height with 20" wheels is 660mm front and rear. Set the fronts to 16 off full hard. Set the rears to 8 off full hard. Be sure to have the shop watch the video for pre-load and bench setting ride height.
I watched the video and respectfully disagree that "Hand tight" is the best method for setting preload. I prefer starting from zero preload (first point from which the spring has no vertical movement) and then use a set of calipers to set the amount of preload. This way is much easier to repeat with accuracy.
jeremywes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 10:08 PM   #12
JusticePete
CamaroCross Founder
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremywes View Post
I watched the video and respectfully disagree that "Hand tight" is the best method for setting preload. I prefer starting from zero preload (first point from which the spring has no vertical movement) and then use a set of calipers to set the amount of preload. This way is much easier to repeat with accuracy.
Jeremy,

With the weakest guy on the planet we'll get to no vertical movement with hand tight. With a body builder or professional tech (Popeye arms) we'll end up with four or five mm of pre-compression on the fronts. Either way we get to the desired goal of a minimum pre-compression. This is not all that different from your method to set the pre-compression as there will be variation in the way people measure.

What is mission critical is that we have a minimum of 10mm pre-compression in the rear and 2mm in the front and use the monotube to adjust height. If we end up with 12 and 4 or 11 and 5 we are good to go and light years ahead of the inconsistent installations being done in the field. Based on the tech inquiries we get, we have 10% of Pedders Xa and Supercar coilovers installations using the lower coil seat for ride height adjustment
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 12:10 PM   #13
jeremywes
 
jeremywes's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro SS
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Jeremy,

With the weakest guy on the planet we'll get to no vertical movement with hand tight. With a body builder or professional tech (Popeye arms) we'll end up with four or five mm of pre-compression on the fronts. Either way we get to the desired goal of a minimum pre-compression. This is not all that different from your method to set the pre-compression as there will be variation in the way people measure.

What is mission critical is that we have a minimum of 10mm pre-compression in the rear and 2mm in the front and use the monotube to adjust height. If we end up with 12 and 4 or 11 and 5 we are good to go and light years ahead of the inconsistent installations being done in the field. Based on the tech inquiries we get, we have 10% of Pedders Xa and Supercar coilovers installations using the lower coil seat for ride height adjustment
I challenge you to a coil over install throw-down

;-) Just kidding JP
jeremywes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 05:36 PM   #14
JusticePete
CamaroCross Founder
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremywes View Post
I challenge you to a coil over install throw-down

;-) Just kidding JP
Could be fun if we did a contest at C5FEST for Pedders Xa Coilover Setup Accuracy

Let's think about this.
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 09:19 AM   #15
jeremywes
 
jeremywes's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro SS
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Could be fun if we did a contest at C5FEST for Pedders Xa Coilover Setup Accuracy

Let's think about this.
I'm down with that! I wonder if we could use a shock dyno to test the setup?

We could have the perfect pedders setup to use as a benchmark

Then compare the left and right for consistency and then index all against time.

Fastest guy that gets cloest to the benchmark and maintains consistency with the other side gets a set of supercar XA's.
jeremywes is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.