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Old 05-09-2013, 04:59 PM   #15
SC2150
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As long as you do some hard accellerations and some decelerations (not a 7k deceleration!) you can drive highway fine. What you dont want is one RPM for an extened time right off the bat.

gaja,

if broken in properly and then a premium full syn used we see 200-300 k plus w/no noticeable oil consumption.

Over 38 years of building engines (race and street performance as well as classic and rare european) have seen most everything up close and personal.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:14 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
Drive it hard safely for first 500 miles, drain oil and use a good full syn afterwards like castrol syntec, etc. Drain right away and run shell rottela or similar during breaking is better yet.

Following the owners manual odds are you will have oil consumption issue the life of the motor.
What Rotella do you suggest? Synth or no for the break in?
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
As long as you do some hard accellerations and some decelerations (not a 7k deceleration!) you can drive highway fine. What you dont want is one RPM for an extened time right off the bat.

gaja,

if broken in properly and then a premium full syn used we see 200-300 k plus w/no noticeable oil consumption.

Over 38 years of building engines (race and street performance as well as classic and rare european) have seen most everything up close and personal.
I did not mean to insult your opinion, so to recap, your idea of a best break-in would be:

1. Drain oil that comes in the engine (which I believe is a synthetic), and put in something like shell rottela.

2. Drive hard for 500 miles (and please be specific on your definition of driving hard), and then do another oil change back to synthetic.

This is of interest to me because my engine building experience was with drag race engines that you did not really care much about break-in because they were never going to stay together very long, unlike this new car that is on the way. Thanks in advance for your advice!
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:20 PM   #18
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When you guys say drive hard, are you pushing past 4000 rpm? How exact is the 500 mile mark for breakin? I've run hard accels to 4000, a few just a bit over and have been easy on the decels. I'm at about 800 miles now but a little less than half has been highway. Did I miss the window for a good (non owners manual) breakin?

Here's another question - does the hard breakin approach assume you have a catch can on day 1? If I don't, am I still better off?
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by gajagfan View Post
I did not mean to insult your opinion, so to recap, your idea of a best break-in would be:

1. Drain oil that comes in the engine (which I believe is a synthetic), and put in something like shell rottela.

2. Drive hard for 500 miles (and please be specific on your definition of driving hard), and then do another oil change back to synthetic.

This is of interest to me because my engine building experience was with drag race engines that you did not really care much about break-in because they were never going to stay together very long, unlike this new car that is on the way. Thanks in advance for your advice!
Correct. The oils of the past that came in engines from the factory were specifically formulated to aid ring seating. They had enough protection for the bearings and journals if run easy the first 500-1000 miles, but allowed sufficient friction for the rings to seat, or "wear in" to the cylinder walls (the cross hatch hone is for this purpose). But you could NOT run them hard or you risked damage, and the oil HAD to be changed by 500-1000 miles or trouble.

Today, the smae break in is advised, but they come prefilled with M1 syn and it is far to protective to allow the rings to seat if driven easy (todays buyers want to get the car, put gas in, and not service it for 10k miles is why.....the evolution to never opening your own hood is 2 generations in the making so dealer service center is a part of a car owners life).

You only have app 400-500 miles before the cylinder walls form a hard glaze (even if you can still see the cross hatch patteren, it is no longer able to seat rings) so if driven as per owners manual, odds are you will never have properly seated rings (some get lucky). So, best is to drain syn oil right away, fill with a good conventional as they have some zdp to protect from cuffing, etc. install a good functioning catchcan (only a few really catch most or all the oil...most are not worth buying no matter what the claims or the name brand on them), I prefer shell rottella 10-30 but any good conventional will protect and allow ring seat.

Then drive easy firt 50 or so miles to let rear gears heat cycle (a few cool downs so around town errands works well). Then, run it up at 3/4 plus throttle (safely!!! no reckless driving) to say 4500-5k RPM, then at 200 or so miles WOT to 5500 and allow some engine breaking (deceleration) but not excessive, and then at 400-500 full throttle to 6 k a few times. Drain at 500 miles (quite a bit of iron dust from the cylinders and some bebris from assembly is always present, so get it out) and fill with full syn (M1 is not near as good as it used to be....) and drive like you would normally and see how well your power, economy, and no or low oil consumption is.

On our race motors we break them in in a few passes, but tolerances are looser than these engines so these take a little more time. But also, do a google search to see what other well known engine builders do as well (most of us do this the same, or close to the same).

Over 38 years of doing theis with excellent results, and we tear down all types of motors and see the results of the owners manual method up close and personal (ask any GM/ford/mopar tech how often they put new rings/pistons in todays new motors due to excess oil consumption, or search here on how many have lost a motor by not checking oil regularly).
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat View Post
Are you serious? Read your manual. Especially about the oil. Good lord.


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What he said.

And anyway, there's no need to "break in" your car anymore really. Take it easy at first just in case, but otherwise... bah. The idea of "Breaking-in" your car I believe, goes back to the really old days of auto building when parts were not fastened together as tightly, and manufactured to fit as tightly as they are today. Just drive your car and enjoy.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:45 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
Correct. The oils of the past that came in engines from the factory were specifically formulated to aid ring seating. They had enough protection for the bearings and journals if run easy the first 500-1000 miles, but allowed sufficient friction for the rings to seat, or "wear in" to the cylinder walls (the cross hatch hone is for this purpose). But you could NOT run them hard or you risked damage, and the oil HAD to be changed by 500-1000 miles or trouble.

Today, the smae break in is advised, but they come prefilled with M1 syn and it is far to protective to allow the rings to seat if driven easy (todays buyers want to get the car, put gas in, and not service it for 10k miles is why.....the evolution to never opening your own hood is 2 generations in the making so dealer service center is a part of a car owners life).

You only have app 400-500 miles before the cylinder walls form a hard glaze (even if you can still see the cross hatch patteren, it is no longer able to seat rings) so if driven as per owners manual, odds are you will never have properly seated rings (some get lucky). So, best is to drain syn oil right away, fill with a good conventional as they have some zdp to protect from cuffing, etc. install a good functioning catchcan (only a few really catch most or all the oil...most are not worth buying no matter what the claims or the name brand on them), I prefer shell rottella 10-30 but any good conventional will protect and allow ring seat.

Then drive easy firt 50 or so miles to let rear gears heat cycle (a few cool downs so around town errands works well). Then, run it up at 3/4 plus throttle (safely!!! no reckless driving) to say 4500-5k RPM, then at 200 or so miles WOT to 5500 and allow some engine breaking (deceleration) but not excessive, and then at 400-500 full throttle to 6 k a few times. Drain at 500 miles (quite a bit of iron dust from the cylinders and some bebris from assembly is always present, so get it out) and fill with full syn (M1 is not near as good as it used to be....) and drive like you would normally and see how well your power, economy, and no or low oil consumption is.

On our race motors we break them in in a few passes, but tolerances are looser than these engines so these take a little more time. But also, do a google search to see what other well known engine builders do as well (most of us do this the same, or close to the same).

Over 38 years of doing theis with excellent results, and we tear down all types of motors and see the results of the owners manual method up close and personal (ask any GM/ford/mopar tech how often they put new rings/pistons in todays new motors due to excess oil consumption, or search here on how many have lost a motor by not checking oil regularly).
Good stuff! If anything it's peace of mind. I'll be doing the ^^above^^ plus a little of this:

New Vehicle Break-In
Follow these recommended guidelines during the first
1,500 miles/2414 km of driving this vehicle. Parts have a
break-in period and performance will be better in the
long run.
For the first 200 miles/322 km:
• To break in new tires, drive at moderate speeds and
avoid hard cornering for the first 200 miles/322 km.
• New brake linings also need a break- in period. Avoid
making hard stops during the first 200 miles/322 km.
This is recommended every time brake linings are
replaced.
For the first 500 miles/805 km:
• Avoid full throttle starts and abrupt stops.
• Do not exceed 4,000 engine rpm.
• Avoid driving at any one constant speed, fast or
slow, including the use of cruise control.
• Avoid downshifting to brake or slow the vehicle
when the engine speed will exceed 4000 RPM.
• Do not let the engine labor. Never lug the engine
in high gear at low speeds. With a manual
transmission, shift to the next lower gear. This rule
applies at all times, not just during the break-in
period.
For the first 1,500 miles/2414 km:
• Do not participate in track events, sport driving
schools, or similar activities during the first
1,500 miles/2414 km.
• Check engine oil with every refueling and add if
necessary. Oil and fuel consumption may be higher
than normal during the first 1,500 miles/2414 km.

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Old 05-10-2013, 01:48 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
Correct. The oils of the past that came in engines from the factory were specifically formulated to aid ring seating. They had enough protection for the bearings and journals if run easy the first 500-1000 miles, but allowed sufficient friction for the rings to seat, or "wear in" to the cylinder walls (the cross hatch hone is for this purpose). But you could NOT run them hard or you risked damage, and the oil HAD to be changed by 500-1000 miles or trouble.

Today, the smae break in is advised, but they come prefilled with M1 syn and it is far to protective to allow the rings to seat if driven easy (todays buyers want to get the car, put gas in, and not service it for 10k miles is why.....the evolution to never opening your own hood is 2 generations in the making so dealer service center is a part of a car owners life).

You only have app 400-500 miles before the cylinder walls form a hard glaze (even if you can still see the cross hatch patteren, it is no longer able to seat rings) so if driven as per owners manual, odds are you will never have properly seated rings (some get lucky). So, best is to drain syn oil right away, fill with a good conventional as they have some zdp to protect from cuffing, etc. install a good functioning catchcan (only a few really catch most or all the oil...most are not worth buying no matter what the claims or the name brand on them), I prefer shell rottella 10-30 but any good conventional will protect and allow ring seat.
Even the Shell Rotella has the 'star' symbol, which indicates that there is less ZDDP additive to it so its as good as it used to be..Anyway I dont think ZDDP was your point on your advice seems excellent to me. I have left over synthetic Rotella in my garage, is it as good as regular Rotella for break in? Does it matter?
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:47 AM   #23
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Complete nonsense. Follow the manual, which was written by the engineers who designed the car, not someone from the internet.

Michael
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:19 AM   #24
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lol..michael and what kind of experience do you have with engines? just asking..
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:48 AM   #25
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Whammo....dont use the synthetic, to protective. you can use any conventional, Pennzoil, QS, Castrol....but just make sure it is a conventional dino oil.

Also, some other good stuff in the other instructions:

Never lug the engine....very important. No steady speed for first few hundred miles....the engine needs to vary RPM's. Tires need heat cycled, and brake pads bedded. Rear gears heat cycling, but the rest drive it as described in my posts.

And finally, Michael, no offense, but you are exactley the mindset the manufacturers market departments have groomed the last few generations. The engineers do not write these instructions, legal, marketing, and management do. The engineers are some of the best in the world, but as with so many other annoying problems owners experiance, it is not the engineers being incompetant....it is they are so constrained it what they cannot implement or disseminate to the public. If allowed to design the best w/out budget constraints these cars would be costing $200-400k and not $30-35k. I share over 38 years of involvement in the industry and years of relationships with engineers from the big 3 and the occaisional european and asian imports.

No one does a better job of controlling the decessions made and the perception of what is true or not than the marketing divisions of any large company, especcially the auto manufacturer's (and mainstream media).

And, since it is a free country, you are free to break in your car/truck as you chosse....but to make a statement such as yours above to others w/out any factual background experiance or ualifications is a diservice for those that do want to know the best way to make their car run the best, with the least amount of issues, and last the longest. In a perfect world, all we are exposed to would be true and accurate, but this is far from the perfect world and misinformation is rampant at all levels of our lives.

These forums are a great way to learn what most of the population takes for granted and are none the wiser, but it is also difficult to sort through biased BS, etc.

I only post what has been part of my life on an intimate basis for longer than most members have been alive. I gain nothing sharing this info...it makes me no $, and in fact takes considerable time out from billable hours and production here at RX.



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Old 05-11-2013, 10:50 AM   #26
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Complete nonsense. Follow the manual, which was written by the engineers who designed the car, not someone from the internet.

Michael
I got a buddy who is an ME in powertrain up at GM. Has had many many LS motors on dynos for very long periods of time. He says "seat the rings, then beat the car." I'll listen to him. He is an engineer, and he told it to me on the internet.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:46 AM   #27
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I just picked up my 1LE yesterday from a dealer 150 miles from home. The car had 117 miles on the clock at pickup, no idea how it was driven as these were probably test drives. The 150 was a combination of highway at 65 and short 25 - 35 mph stints through small towns. Also some mountain pass driving at speed. If I drain the oil and replace with non-synthetic should I just work it hard for the rest of the 500 miles, or do a complete 500 before switching back to synthetic?
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:02 PM   #28
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Are these motors pre- run at the factory now and therefore the rings are already sealed? Is the breaking mostly for your drive train now?

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