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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 05-14-2013, 09:18 AM   #51
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Chevy proved their capability of doing something they never did before, and in a way, to show that they could. The ZL1. It was underpriced by performance metrics VS it's MSRP. They seemingly answered our pleas here on the Z-28 forum where we discussed the bulding of the Z-28 with the LS7 in a final go out with a blow out ride. We got it built, by gosh yes they are doing it! By making a car they can race and doing it right, then it should have been a COPO style no VIN race only model, not similar to that of the ZL1 where it's warrantied for racing, but can be a DD.
I'm thinking perhaps these Z/28s just may "magically" stop at 692(?) or whatever it was they built in '67...I don't think they realistically can make very many of them that are street-legal, for a variety of reasons....

Perhaps a COPO similar program for a track car would be how they continue on....(COPOs were street-legal, but that's not how they're building them now, either)....LS7s, the 5thGens themselves, aren't gonna be around for very much longer anyways...Another guess, they will only be MY 2014 (built as long as the rules allow)...no '15s....who knows...

It's been said various times and in different ways, that they considered calling the ZL1 the Z/28...It's more Z/28ish to how a lot of people would have wanted the Z/28 built for affordability, and street-ability...Stripper cars will never be big sellers, no matter what form they come in...

I think the bottom line will be, if you really, really want one, you better get one as soon as possible...I don't think the Z/28 in it's present form will be around very long....

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Old 05-14-2013, 10:07 AM   #52
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^, I hear ya, that prospect of the waiver situation as mentioned by our coleague in another thread I was not aware of previously will be a bug in the ointment and bottleneck production. An unmentioned "limit" production number to correlate with some historical point is doubtfull, as they already stated about building with no artificial limit. Agreed on the ability of getting one, as I stated previously, hoops of fire and much effort it will take to be the guy. Especially if the waiver does not carry over into '15 for the LS7. Sorry for any hijack...back to the thread.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:28 AM   #53
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With Dodge saying they're working on a direct competitor to the Z/28 it doesn't make sense for the manufacturers to be making cars like these unless they're also planning on competing in either a current series or a new/revival manufacturer's series. And I simply cannot believe Ford isn't planning on coming to this party; they're not going to let Chevy and Dodge get all the glory and press coverage.

A new Big 3 manufacturer's series that requires street-legal production cars would be a huge win for everybody. Lots of fantastic press coverage, great for cars, tires, sponsors, drivers, and personally I think it would/could be more popular than NASCAR simply because fans could buy and drive on the street the cars they're watching on the track. A series like this would definitely sell street cars.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:53 AM   #54
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With Dodge saying they're working on a direct competitor to the Z/28 it doesn't make sense for the manufacturers to be making cars like these unless they're also planning on competing in either a current series or a new/revival manufacturer's series. And I simply cannot believe Ford isn't planning on coming to this party; they're not going to let Chevy and Dodge get all the glory and press coverage.

A new Big 3 manufacturer's series that requires street-legal production cars would be a huge win for everybody. Lots of fantastic press coverage, great for cars, tires, sponsors, drivers, and personally I think it would/could be more popular than NASCAR simply because fans could buy and drive on the street the cars they're watching on the track. A series like this would definitely sell street cars.
Hope you're right....that would be a great scenario....but just thinking, I would have thought that sort of thing would have happenened already with the ZL1, 1LE, Boss 302, etc....If the Z/28 is what it takes to get things over the hump, that would be awesome....
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:45 PM   #55
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Just a comment on weight: My 2012 Camaro 1SS (very few options) weighed 3820 (at two different drag strips). AO said they had taken away "more than" 100 lbs. Could the Z28 break into the 36XX lb class?
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:02 PM   #56
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Just a comment on weight: My 2012 Camaro 1SS (very few options) weighed 3820 (at two different drag strips). AO said they had taken away "more than" 100 lbs. Could the Z28 break into the 36XX lb class?
If it does? It's price will reach the stratosphere. As I've said before, the more they cut, strip or lighten the car, the more it'll cost. But I dont see it going into the 3600lb class. I think it'll be 3700+lbs. 3600 is stretching it a bit much as theyve already gotten it down below the SS.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:26 PM   #57
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Hope you're right....that would be a great scenario....but just thinking, I would have thought that sort of thing would have happenened already with the ZL1, 1LE, Boss 302, etc....If the Z/28 is what it takes to get things over the hump, that would be awesome....
The magnetic suspension of the ZL1 takes it out of the running for a series car. The rules for a production series are pretty strict to prevent one team from having an unfair advantage over the others. The 1LE and Boss 302 are really just street cars with track packs; they're good but not intended to run an entire year-long series. All those cars are perfectly fine and affordable for the average weekend racer. So why the sudden showing from Chevy and Dodge for these new pull-out-all-stops track cars? Maybe I'm just being too curious but it seems odd to me unless something else is in the works that hasn't been announced yet because it's not ready.

A car like a Z/28 and whatever Dodge is developing is going to be capable of running an entire manufacturer's series with the extreme demands such a series has. That's why I'm hoping such a series is soon to be. I'm basing that hope on what I'm seeing in the Z/28 and the fact that Dodge who's basically been a non-participant in the Camaro/Mustang wars, suddenly announces they're jumping in at the Z/28 level. If that's such a limited market, then why go to the expense of getting into it? I'm feeling there just HAS to be something else going on here for all of this to make sense. And I won't at all be surprised if Ford makes an announcement of a genuine track Mustang in the near future. If they do...it's good times for performance enthusiasts.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:48 PM   #58
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The magnetic suspension of the ZL1 takes it out of the running for a series car. The rules for a production series are pretty strict to prevent one team from having an unfair advantage over the others. The 1LE and Boss 302 are really just street cars with track packs; they're good but not intended to run an entire year-long series. All those cars are perfectly fine and affordable for the average weekend racer. So why the sudden showing from Chevy and Dodge for these new pull-out-all-stops track cars? Maybe I'm just being too curious but it seems odd to me unless something else is in the works that hasn't been announced yet because it's not ready.

A car like a Z/28 and whatever Dodge is developing is going to be capable of running an entire manufacturer's series with the extreme demands such a series has. That's why I'm hoping such a series is soon to be. I'm basing that hope on what I'm seeing in the Z/28 and the fact that Dodge who's basically been a non-participant in the Camaro/Mustang wars, suddenly announces they're jumping in at the Z/28 level. If that's such a limited market, then why go to the expense of getting into it? I'm feeling there just HAS to be something else going on here for all of this to make sense. And I won't at all be surprised if Ford makes an announcement of a genuine track Mustang in the near future. If they do...it's good times for performance enthusiasts.
I'll take a pick as to what dodge calls their own track car and say it'll be the Barricuda since it was on par with euro cars and basically a track car over a muscle car. Here's a clip I got from an article:

The original Plymouth Barracuda was not a muscle car; powered by a slant six or a 273 V8 (later getting an optional 340 or 383), the Barracuda was a (then-hot) Valiant with a fastback rear. Barracuda was praised for its fine “European style” handling; some critics said the Formula S, with the 340 or smaller engine, could beat comparable German cars on twists and turns. It took six years for Barracuda to leave the small “A” body, largely so Plymouth could stuff the big 440 and 426 Hemi engines into it.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:17 PM   #59
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I'll take a pick as to what dodge calls their own track car and say it'll be the Barricuda since it was on par with euro cars and basically a track car over a muscle car. Here's a clip I got from an article:

The original Plymouth Barracuda was not a muscle car; powered by a slant six or a 273 V8 (later getting an optional 340 or 383), the Barracuda was a (then-hot) Valiant with a fastback rear. Barracuda was praised for its fine “European style” handling; some critics said the Formula S, with the 340 or smaller engine, could beat comparable German cars on twists and turns. It took six years for Barracuda to leave the small “A” body, largely so Plymouth could stuff the big 440 and 426 Hemi engines into it.
Z/28's, Barracudas and Mustangs going head-to-head on road courses in America? OH YEAH!!! Man would that be great to see!!
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:21 PM   #60
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Z/28's, Barracudas and Mustangs going head-to-head on road courses in America? OH YEAH!!! Man would that be great to see!!
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:11 PM   #61
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Z/28's, Barracudas and Mustangs going head-to-head on road courses in America? OH YEAH!!! Man would that be great to see!!
A new United Sports Car Club series???
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:17 PM   #62
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A new United Sports Car Club series???
I would love to see manufactures compete in the new series!
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:52 PM   #63
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It would "be" the good "new" days.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:24 PM   #64
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Z/28's, Barracudas and Mustangs going head-to-head on road courses in America? OH YEAH!!! Man would that be great to see!!
Can you envision Mark Donahue, Dan Gurney, and Parnelli Jones....., what's old is new....history repeats itself...<a couple of old sayings>
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:27 AM   #65
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........... I'm feeling there just HAS to be something else going on here for all of this to make sense. And I won't at all be surprised if Ford makes an announcement of a genuine track Mustang in the near future. If they do...it's good times for performance enthusiasts.
I think Ford may upgrade the Boss 302 to some degree, but I don't see them doing anything brand new to compete. From what I've read, the Boss is just about the max possible from their antiquated platform except for mild HP increases. Their current chassis struggles big time to handle 444 HP. I think the new Mustang platform coming in 2015-16 will leap frog the current track car competition causing another flurry of catch up tactics from the competition. JMHO. But you're right...awesome times for all of us.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:06 AM   #66
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I think Ford may upgrade the Boss 302 to some degree, but I don't see them doing anything brand new to compete. From what I've read, the Boss is just about the max possible from their antiquated platform except for mild HP increases. Their current chassis struggles big time to handle 444 HP. I think the new Mustang platform coming in 2015-16 will leap frog the current track car competition causing another flurry of catch up tactics from the competition. JMHO. But you're right...awesome times for all of us.
The Boss was only made for 12-13. The Mustang is in model year 14 already, so I would have to agree that they won't compete soon. Maybe model year 16 but by then the Z/28 might be done as well. We will have to wait and see
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:10 AM   #67
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I think Ford may upgrade the Boss 302 to some degree, but I don't see them doing anything brand new to compete. From what I've read, the Boss is just about the max possible from their antiquated platform except for mild HP increases. Their current chassis struggles big time to handle 444 HP. I think the new Mustang platform coming in 2015-16 will leap frog the current track car competition causing another flurry of catch up tactics from the competition. JMHO. But you're right...awesome times for all of us.
Yeah it's going to have to be an IRS Mustang but when you look at the timing; sometime probably late next year... all 3 companies aiming at coming out with cars that supposedly have an extremely limited market which normally equals to little or no profit... makes me wonder. These are also cars that have a higher investment cost to create and probably produce. It just doesn't make economic/business sense UNLESS there's a greater plan/vision in play here.

A new manufacturer's competition series with these kinds of cars would be just freakin great. The big 3 combining their advertising budgets to really pump public interest....just look at how the Transformer's movie cranked up interest in Bumblebee/Camaros. And then after the debut year, the 'foreign' car makers want to join the party. Now you have Japanese and German cars adding to the fun. I can see Mazda and BMW in particular wanting to compete.

We could be on the edge of some great motoring times.... or I could just be dreaming lol... we'll see.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:29 AM   #68
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My $.02....The Big 3 thing might be in the future, but it seems like for now GM and the Z/28 are shooting for what's out there now to compete/out-do the foreign makes...(..."...faster than the ZL-1...as well as other way more expensive, exotic foreign cars....")....

Advertising, marketing wise I'm seeing it more directed to European, international type appeal to help boost sales and attract the foreign competition buyers to Chevy, not so much from Ford and Dodge....

....Not a bad thing, if it's even a plausible thought, just that for now Ford and Dodge have nothing....
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:25 PM   #69
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It's possible the big 3 come out with low production cars that are flat out amazing, i.e. Z/28, Barricuda??? Mustang whatever... then make production models in the next gens for all to be able to afford and capitalize making the general public buy "the badge" to creat an effect that you've bought similar to what was produced beforehand.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:43 AM   #70
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^...oh yeah, I follow you...you mean just like they did for close to forty years after the muscle car era died...resulting in part to the auto industry collapse,...yes, that's the ticket,...the recipe for successs...yesiriee Bob...
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:16 AM   #71
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^...oh yeah, I follow you...you mean just like they did for close to forty years after the muscle car era died...resulting in part to the auto industry collapse,...yes, that's the ticket,...the recipe for successs...yesiriee Bob...
Well you have to be honest about what was really happening to the car industry, as well as most all of not only our society but also Europe and the U.K. as well. A massive all-out assault by socialism on just about all aspects of society; from individual behaviors, family behaviors, education, politics, economics, "environmentalism", etc. combined with a phony "oil crisis" in the early 70's...that pretty much killed the muscle car era. It was no longer "politically correct" and we now had to be "sensitive" to the environment and not waste "precious" mother earth, yada yada.

The collapse of the auto industry was just one of the many "collapse" byproducts of that movement, including families, marriage, work ethic, economics, education standards, etc.. Fortunately the human race was/is stronger than socialism and the desire for freedom combined with creativity and ingenuity is starting to create a revival of many things in lots of areas.

Performance cars is one of those areas that's bringing in a new "good old days". At least for the time being. I'm sure somebody somewhere will happen to drive over a particular kind of bug or something and suddenly there will be a protest about how "greedy" and "wasteful" all that horsepower is and there should be laws to "protect us" from it all. After all, people don't "need" that much horsepower just like they don't "need" 30-round magazines, or big homes, or...or.... well, you know. The only thing "more" and "bigger" they need is government. In the meantime... I love my Camaro.

And now that I've had the gall to tell some truth, let the condemnation and censoring begin!!! Somebody said something that might open people's eyes... OMG HANDLE IT!!! STOP IT!! CHASTISE HIM! He must be banned, censored to set an example so others don't think freedom of speech means actual freedom to speak.

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Old 05-16-2013, 09:49 AM   #72
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seeing how the factory drag cars created and are sustaining a lot of hype I can see the big 3 making road race cars like the Z/28 and forming a new type of series.

I read a while back that the Challenger was to be replaced with the SRT Barricuda. If it has the SRT brand then we know it will not be a slouch.

Ford will be in it. Probably waiting on a new Mustang platform but i would put money they will be back in it.

If the Z/28 is a flop - maybe these cars do not see the light of day. but I see an awful lot of Mustang 5.0s and Camaro SS on the road. I doubt that happens
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:23 AM   #73
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seeing how the factory drag cars created and are sustaining a lot of hype I can see the big 3 making road race cars like the Z/28 and forming a new type of series.

I read a while back that the Challenger was to be replaced with the SRT Barricuda. If it has the SRT brand then we know it will not be a slouch.

Ford will be in it. Probably waiting on a new Mustang platform but i would put money they will be back in it.

If the Z/28 is a flop - maybe these cars do not see the light of day. but I see an awful lot of Mustang 5.0s and Camaro SS on the road. I doubt that happens
Oh I agree; the Z/28 is going to be huge. Nothing gets press like winning, and the Z/28 is going to be a huge winner.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:42 AM   #74
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Well you have to be honest about what was really happening to the car industry, as well as most all of not only our society but also Europe and the U.K. as well. A massive all-out assault by socialism on just about all aspects of society; from individual behaviors, family behaviors, education, politics, economics, "environmentalism", etc. combined with a phony "oil crisis" in the early 70's...that pretty much killed the muscle car era. It was no longer "politically correct" and we now had to be "sensitive" to the environment and not waste "precious" mother earth, yada yada.

The collapse of the auto industry was just one of the many "collapse" byproducts of that movement, including families, marriage, work ethic, economics, education standards, etc.. Fortunately the human race was/is stronger than socialism and the desire for freedom combined with creativity and ingenuity is starting to create a revival of many things in lots of areas.

Performance cars is one of those areas that's bringing in a new "good old days". At least for the time being. I'm sure somebody somewhere will happen to drive over a particular kind of bug or something and suddenly there will be a protest about how "greedy" and "wasteful" all that horsepower is and there should be laws to "protect us" from it all. After all, people don't "need" that much horsepower just like they don't "need" 30-round magazines, or big homes, or...or.... well, you know. The only thing "more" and "bigger" they need is government. In the meantime... I love my Camaro.

And now that I've had the gall to tell some truth, let the condemnation and censoring begin!!! Somebody said something that might open people's eyes... OMG HANDLE IT!!! STOP IT!! CHASTISE HIM! He must be banned, censored to set an example so others don't think freedom of speech means actual freedom to speak.

fists pounding on tables, the outrage of it all!
...you Doc may have the soap box anytime you like!
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:44 PM   #75
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Just for fun, I heard it mentioned on the Mecum Auction, the '67 Camaro had 80 different factory options, plus an additional 40 dealer installed options...lol...
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