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Old 05-15-2013, 08:29 AM   #26
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You are right about it staying the same. It is because the scale on the log was too wide to show the move. Here is another 10.60 run scaled a little better. That was with a stock cam. I have not taken my new setup to the track yet but it has been on the dyno twice... 5 or 6 pulls each time and IAT's maxed at appox 125.

This is not a centri / pd debate. I only commented on the high IAT's of the op because I dont see that high and although I have never owned a cenri, I read constant agruements that they are better because of less heat soak. I think his 160 IAT's are too high and there must be a reason behind it. That is all I was trying to point out.
I just installed an ECS kit and many supporting mods. I too am seeing IAT's get to 160 on a back to back run on the street in 70 degree weather. First run I see about 140. My timing at 6200 rpm shift point is 11.5 when IAT hit 160. When IAt is cool, like at top of 2nd gear on first run, timing is 14.5.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:40 AM   #27
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One point, timing coming down isn't necessarily killing power. Hotter mix ignites quicker so it needs less timing. Once the air enters the intake and piping, cooling it will not make it denser or give it more oxygen. I don't believe cooling the air (by meth or ???)will give it much benefit, unless you give it more oxygen, by increasing the boost. I'm already at 12 psi on a bone stock engine so I don't want more boost.

I guess my bottom line of thinking is meth or other means of cooling IAT is only worth it if you are willing to cram more air (oxygen) in. Cooling the air just to run more timing isn't going to make much more power, all else the same. It just needs more timing advance to ignite the cooler mix at the right time.

This is one of the reasons I like the Mr Freeze kit. Used it on my last Vortech setup and loved it. You are spraying the water/meth in the air cleaner, before the blower. The air gets cooled as the meth evaporates before and as it hits the impeller (must run a high percentage of meth to avoid any possibility of impeller erosion). Since the air is cooled on the intake side of the supercharger, it is denser air going in, with more oxygen, than if it was hot air. Also, the efficiency of the compressor is much better as the compressor is cooler. Also it is boost proportionate and there is no pump to fail.

I have actually thought about putting a Mr Freeze kit on my car, running 70% meth 30% water, then opening up the restrictor in the supercharger to lean it back out to proper AFR. Not sure how rich it would be up top but I wouldn't think I'd have to add more than a pound of boost to get the AFR back in line, and 1 more psi couldn't hurt, right?!?
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:14 PM   #28
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Here are some logs I took for comparison. This is with a Twin Turbo setup.


In This log IAT starts at 111* and end at 131*. 8:24 PM about 8PSI.


In This log IAT starts at 106* and end at 124*. 8:33 PM about 8PSI.


In This log IAT starts at 113* and end at 136*. 8:44 PM about 8PSI. Hottest of that day.


In This log IAT starts at 93* and end at 120*. 9:44 PM about 8PSI. Coldest of that day after an hour cooldown.


In This log IAT starts at 138* and end at 154*. 2:35 PM about 8-13PSI. I made a run then let it idle and heatsoak in the mid-day heat. I was testing the boost controller so I activated it in 4th but it was surging.
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:52 PM   #29
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I've got one of those heat generating maggies. Quarter mile pass started at 104 ended at 118. No meth.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:04 PM   #30
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Not defending Vortech over Maggie or turbo but 12 psi on a 6.2 engine is ALOT more air moved and compressed than 8 or 9 psi. Also if your cam isn't stock then IAT's will be lower, all else the same. I'd bet the Maggie at 12 psi and stock cam would be at or over 160 on a 1/4 mile pass.

I'd love to have a TT setup.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:26 PM   #31
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Not defending Vortech over Maggie or turbo but 12 psi on a 6.2 engine is ALOT more air moved and compressed than 8 or 9 psi. Also if your cam isn't stock then IAT's will be lower, all else the same. I'd bet the Maggie at 12 psi and stock cam would be at or over 160 on a 1/4 mile pass.
I haven't been able to try 13psi for the whole run as I am having trouble with the boost controller plus traction is a big problem even with full slicks.

BTW, this is with a 416ci with a cam. As far as air being moved goes it should be moving more than a stock 6.2L at same 8-9 psi.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:27 PM   #32
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I've got one of those heat generating maggies. Quarter mile pass started at 104 ended at 118. No meth.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:43 PM   #33
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You're probably right. I just wanted to let the OP know a low 11 second Maggie car can run 18* of timing at WOT throughout the quarter mile without any KR and IAT's at the traps under 120*.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:44 PM   #34
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It is amazing the difference in IAT's in different setups. I have the same setup and see the same IAT results as the op and I'm also trying to decide if I should do anything.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:50 PM   #35
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I just wanted to see if it was normal. I currently have no way to log it. I do have an ultraguage though. Im sure like matt said you would never see 160 on the street this was after 4 back to back dyno pulls
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:39 PM   #36
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I had a "ah, ha!" moment after I got home from work where I read this... Pretty much all Centri's I have seen mount the MAF/IAT combo sensor after the intercooler near the TB, correct? Where is the same sensor on most Eldebrock, Maggie, Whilpple, etc installs? It's still on the air intake side before it get's compressed or run through the heat exchanger. True IAT's on one of these would need the sensor buried deep inside the intake manifold. PD's should be seeing similar temps to most car's simply equipped with CAI's.

What does everybody think? Would account for why the PD's are staying consistent during 1 run, but getting hotter after multiples.

By the way I'm very Jealous of BullF-16 and his setup!!! If at all possible I would love to buy your setup! I will be needing to save my pennies first, buy you got what I want!!!
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:50 AM   #37
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I'm pretty sure most everyone relocates their IAT sensor.

My question is whether or not the aftermarket relocated sensor is reacting quick enough to get an accurate reading. For us centri guys the one in the MAF does, but I had an aftermarket relocated one on my last setup that reacted way too slowly. Showed decent IAT's, but in reality at the end of the run the IAT sensor was way behind. IAT's were reading 30 to 40 degrees less than they actually were at the end of a 1/4 mile run.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:59 AM   #38
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Quote:
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I'm pretty sure most everyone relocates their IAT sensor.

My question is whether or not the aftermarket relocated sensor is reacting quick enough to get an accurate reading. For us centri guys the one in the MAF does, but I had an aftermarket relocated one on my last setup that reacted way too slowly. Showed decent IAT's, but in reality at the end of the run the IAT sensor was way behind. IAT's were reading 30 to 40 degrees less than they actually were at the end of a 1/4 mile run.

On a launch at the strip, what distance does an L99 car travel and what is the ET to the top of FIRST GEAR! Look at my log and see the IAT actually go down and get cooler with the movement of the car from the starting line to the top of first gear.....IMO that's a pretty fast response to a change in IAT.
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:25 AM   #39
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I just can't imagine a top mount blower (or any blower) going from 104 degrees F to 118 degrees F on a 1/4 mile pass. Only 14degrees of increase in IAT according to your log. No meth or chiller. Something just seems amiss.

I start just above ambient and end at about 140. About a 60 to 70 degree change. If it is a 2nd run with little cool down time it pushes up to 160 by the end. I know the stock cam hurts the IAT's but I didn't think by that much.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:01 AM   #40
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I've got about 150 of these logs saved. Here's another one done with my SCT tool. I also have LS2 EDIT. They all pretty much read the same way. This was a run done after previous runs with a cool down between runs. The launch IAT was 41C or 106F and the finish line was 50C or 122F. I'm not clever enough to make this stuff up!
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:03 AM   #41
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I've got about 150 of these logs saved. Here's another one done with my SCT tool. I also have LS2 EDIT. They all pretty much read the same way. This was a run done after previous runs with a cool down between runs. The launch IAT was 41C or 106F and the finish line was 50C or 122F. I'm not clever enough to make this stuff up!
Sorry the log didn't attach.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:07 AM   #42
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Ooh I'm not saying you are making anything up. By saying hard to believe I mean it seems either some sensor or something isn't reading right, or IAT's on top mounts aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be.

One other thing with my IAT's is that I haven't made it to a track yet, so all my readings are on a wot pass immediately after decelerating on the street. The more reading I do I'm finding that decelerating seriously increases IAT's and heat soak.

Not sure yet if the OP and I need to change anything yet, or not.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:17 AM   #43
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Ooh I'm not saying you are making anything up. By saying hard to believe I mean it seems either some sensor or something isn't reading right, or IAT's on top mounts aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be.

One other thing with my IAT's is that I haven't made it to a track yet, so all my readings are on a wot pass immediately after decelerating on the street. The more reading I do I'm finding that decelerating seriously increases IAT's and heat soak.

Not sure yet if the OP and I need to change anything yet, or not.
At 8 psi the Maggie isn't that bad. Double that psi and you can start boiling water on it!
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:22 AM   #44
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For sure...even on the street if you are logging you will see an instantaneous increase in IAT when you lift even slightly on the accelerator pedal. You can see on both logs at the beginning of the launch when the intake air velocity increases and the car starts to move in first gear, the iat starts to drop until the heat from the compressed blower air overcomes the initial effect of increased ambient air flow. Following the lift at the traps, the iats will continue to climb but only for a second or two and then the iat immediately starts dropping again as seen in the logs.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:24 AM   #45
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At 8 psi the Maggie isn't that bad. Double that psi and you can start boiling water on it!
That's why I stay where I'm at. I don't drink instant coffee and I don't have a roll bar.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:28 AM   #46
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That's why I stay where I'm at. I don't drink instant coffee and I don't have a roll bar.
Roll bars make it more fun!!
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:55 AM   #47
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For sure...even on the street if you are logging you will see an instantaneous increase in IAT when you lift even slightly on the accelerator pedal. You can see on both logs at the beginning of the launch when the intake air velocity increases and the car starts to move in first gear, the iat starts to drop until the heat from the compressed blower air overcomes the initial effect of increased ambient air flow. Following the lift at the traps, the iats will continue to climb but only for a second or two and then the iat immediately starts dropping again as seen in the logs.
All my logging has been on the street immediately after driving around. I drive down the highway 2 miles, quickly slow down to about 15 mph, then roll it to the floor and hold it there till about 125 mph.


I also am running 12psi with only 1 Vortech race bypass. I ordered another one and a flange today. Ted suggested running 2 of them over 8 psi. Might help some with the heat soak from high IAT decel. Ill also try a run starting without a drive around and hard decel first.

I don't think want meth as I already spray a 100 shot wet. That cools the IAT I'm sure, but I want them to be pretty low off the spray.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:23 PM   #48
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All my logging has been on the street immediately after driving around. I drive down the highway 2 miles, quickly slow down to about 15 mph, then roll it to the floor and hold it there till about 125 mph.


I also am running 12psi with only 1 Vortech race bypass. I ordered another one and a flange today. Ted suggested running 2 of them over 8 psi. Might help some with the heat soak from high IAT decel. Ill also try a run starting without a drive around and hard decel first.

I don't think want meth as I already spray a 100 shot wet. That cools the IAT I'm sure, but I want them to be pretty low off the spray.

My little 55 dry shot had absolutely no effect on cooling the intake temps. Now, I'm not sure where my log reading is being taken from. I spray post maf so if the maf is giving the reading its obviously not picking up the nitrous.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:28 PM   #49
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In wanting to not be misleading in what I've said and posted, I also want to say the following. I very seldom race in the Florida heat. I usually only race in the cooler temps in our winter months... usually ambients in the 60's degrees. I did race a couple of weeks ago at the Modern Muscle Car event when the temps were in the low eightys and long staging lines. I was trapping about 133* iats that day. Another influencing factor, and I'll say upfront that I am not going to get into any pissing contest regarding whether this is a good or bad thing, but I do run a 160* stat. My ECT at launch are usually about 190*. Those two factors do of course have an affect on the IAT's.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:37 PM   #50
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I hear that the EPA has changed their theory on the polar ice caps melting. They have recently discovered that the glaciers have not been melting per se, someone has been taking the ice and putting it in a huge ice chest and doing something to cause it to rapidly melt, then disposes the water.
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