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Old 05-18-2013, 08:39 PM   #103
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Of course.... Agree. Same as if you want to add street comforts to the z/28.

It's not about the cost however. Just the affect of the softer tires and brakes on test laps. Inquiring minds want to know.
Adding CCB and 60 wear tires to a ZL1 is the same as adding speakers to a Z/28???
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:32 PM   #104
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Don't be facetious.. speakers dont weigh 300 lbs. Not any I have ever seen LOL. But all of the creature comforts removed do. I didn't say "speakers" .... I said "all of the creature comforts".... AC, Electric seats, sound deadener, Elec Windows, heavier rear glass and so on......

I'll give you a second chance to understand. Wouldn't you like to know what a ZL1 would do if it simply had the tires and brakes of the Z/28? Give the ZL1 just a couple of the Z/28 upgrades, without changing any of the other issues. Then we see what happens on a "test lap".... not an endurance race. I'd like to know if those famously quoted "3 seconds" would mean as much if you just made those two changes (tires/brakes). Hell, for a couple "test laps", I'd be curious with just the tire change! After all, those brakes are fairly pricey.
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:35 PM   #105
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Don't be facetious.. speakers dont weigh 300 lbs. Not any I have ever seen LOL. But all of the creature comforts removed do. I didn't say "speakers" .... I said "all of the creature comforts".... AC, Electric seats, sound deadener, Elec Windows, heavier rear glass and so on......

I'll give you a second chance to understand.
Obviously this is just my opinion but I don't think the people that are going to buy this car care about creature comforts. I guess I just don't see the point of buying this car then adding a bunch of weight.
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:54 PM   #106
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I don't know what to say except who didn't know it was fasterm the led out with that info.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:07 PM   #107
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Don't be facetious.. speakers dont weigh 300 lbs. Not any I have ever seen LOL. But all of the creature comforts removed do. I didn't say "speakers" .... I said "all of the creature comforts".... AC, Electric seats, sound deadener, Elec Windows, heavier rear glass and so on......

I'll give you a second chance to understand. Wouldn't you like to know what a ZL1 would do if it simply had the tires and brakes of the Z/28? Give the ZL1 just a couple of the Z/28 upgrades, without changing any of the other issues. Then we see what happens on a "test lap".... not an endurance race. I'd like to know if those famously quoted "3 seconds" would mean as much if you just made those two changes (tires/brakes). Hell, for a couple "test laps", I'd be curious with just the tire change! After all, those brakes are fairly pricey.
But why would you want to know that? what would it prove? Do you feel your car is less superior because of the Z/28? Excuse my ignorance, I'm just not as intelligent and informed as some of the members here in this thread.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:08 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by htron50 View Post
Don't be facetious.. speakers dont weigh 300 lbs. Not any I have ever seen LOL. But all of the creature comforts removed do. I didn't say "speakers" .... I said "all of the creature comforts".... AC, Electric seats, sound deadener, Elec Windows, heavier rear glass and so on......

I'll give you a second chance to understand. Wouldn't you like to know what a ZL1 would do if it simply had the tires and brakes of the Z/28? Give the ZL1 just a couple of the Z/28 upgrades, without changing any of the other issues. Then we see what happens on a "test lap".... not an endurance race. I'd like to know if those famously quoted "3 seconds" would mean as much if you just made those two changes (tires/brakes). Hell, for a couple "test laps", I'd be curious with just the tire change! After all, those brakes are fairly pricey.
I'd love to see a comparo with just the tires. I'm sure there are many intelligent magazine and online review persons who will do exactly that comparison.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:13 PM   #109
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But why would you want to know that? what would it prove? Do you feel your car is less superior because of the Z/28? Excuse my ignorance, I'm just not as intelligent and informed as some of the members here in this thread.
We want to see that because GM claimed to have engineered this drastically better track car than a zl1, but compared the two while putting street tires on one and road race (slick compound) on the other. If GM wants to market their new product by comparing it to the older one, run the both in running shoes, instead of having one wear slippers (pun intended)
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:14 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by htron50 View Post
Don't be facetious.. speakers dont weigh 300 lbs. Not any I have ever seen LOL. But all of the creature comforts removed do. I didn't say "speakers" .... I said "all of the creature comforts".... AC, Electric seats, sound deadener, Elec Windows, heavier rear glass and so on......

I'll give you a second chance to understand. Wouldn't you like to know what a ZL1 would do if it simply had the tires and brakes of the Z/28? Give the ZL1 just a couple of the Z/28 upgrades, without changing any of the other issues. Then we see what happens on a "test lap".... not an endurance race. I'd like to know if those famously quoted "3 seconds" would mean as much if you just made those two changes (tires/brakes). Hell, for a couple "test laps", I'd be curious with just the tire change! After all, those brakes are fairly pricey.
First no need to be condescending ("I'll give you a second chance to understand.")
The point is its apples and oranges. The cars are built for different purchasers for different missions. And yes the ZL1 would perform better with upgrades, but any car can perform better with the right upgrades.
And the Z/28 has AC, electric windows...I don't think the heavier rear window is a creature comfort. Also, the 300+ lbs includes the SC which I wouldn't call a CC.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:22 PM   #111
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We want to see that because GM claimed to have engineered this drastically better track car than a zl1, but compared the two while putting street tires on one and road race (slick compound) on the other. If GM wants to market their new product by comparing it to the older one, run the both in running shoes, instead of having one wear slippers (pun intended)
But shouldn't the comparo's be based on if the upgrades were either options or stock? and if the "upgrades"(tires) were stock, that would make the ZL1 less desirable because of the frequency and expense of replacing the tires.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:23 PM   #112
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The point is its apples and oranges. The cars are built for different purchasers for different missions. And yes the ZL1 would perform better with upgrades, but any car can perform better with the right upgrades.
I don't understand how so many people are missing this point.....

If you want creature comforts get the ZL1, If you want a no frills car get the Z/28. There is no need for all of the hate... JMO
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:26 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
We want to see that because GM claimed to have engineered this drastically better track car than a zl1, but compared the two while putting street tires on one and road race (slick compound) on the other. If GM wants to market their new product by comparing it to the older one, run the both in running shoes, instead of having one wear slippers (pun intended)
What auto magazines do you see putting the same tires on every vehicle to compare them? They don't! They test them as they are equipped from the factory, even in multicar comparison tests. You certainly sound like a ZL1 owner that looks for every reason to denigrate the Z/28. If you don't like the idea that the Z/28 may be a better track car than the ZL1, you do have the option of not participating on the Z/28 threads. And I promise I won't come over to the ZL1 forum section to dog on the ZL1. Your constant negativity on nearly every Z/28 thread is getting extremely boring.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:28 PM   #114
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First no need to be condescending ("I'll give you a second chance to understand.")
The point is its apples and oranges. The cars are built for different purchasers for different missions. And yes the ZL1 would perform better with upgrades, but any car can perform better with the right upgrades.
And the Z/28 has AC, electric windows...I don't think the heavier rear window is a creature comfort. Also, the 300+ lbs includes the SC which I wouldn't call a CC.
I think this "Creature Comfort" business has gotten out of hand...Unless it has elaborate luxuries, it's said to lack "creature comforts"....lol...

Eliminating extraneous creature comfort "mass" is just a tool to reduce weight.
Windows that keep out the rain, doors that close and lock, instrument guages for the engine, a roof, power steering, power brakes, turn signals,
a comfortable seat (non-power, non six-way memory, non-heating, non -cooling), windshield defroster, cabin heater....are plenty enough creature comforts....lol...
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:35 PM   #115
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I'd love to see a comparo with just the tires. I'm sure there are many intelligent magazine and online review persons who will do exactly that comparison.
or you could go out and buy the tires and make your own comparo
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:36 PM   #116
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I don't understand how so many people are missing this point.....

If you want creature comforts get the ZL1, If you want a no frills car get the Z/28. There is no need for all of the hate... JMO
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:38 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
I don't understand how so many people are missing this point.....

If you want creature comforts get the ZL1, If you want a no frills car get the Z/28. There is no need for all of the hate... JMO
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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
What auto magazines do you see putting the same tires on every vehicle to compare them? They don't! They test them as they are equipped from the factory, even in multicar comparison tests. You certainly sound like a ZL1 owner that looks for every reason to denigrate the Z/28. If you don't like the idea that the Z/28 may be a better track car than the ZL1, you do have the option of not participating on the Z/28 threads. And I promise I won't come over to the ZL1 forum section to dog on the ZL1. Your constant negativity on nearly every Z/28 thread is getting extremely boring.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:41 PM   #118
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I think this "Creature Comfort" business has gotten out of hand...Unless it has elaborate luxuries, it's said to lack "creature comforts"....lol...

Eliminating extraneous creature comfort "mass" is just a tool to reduce weight.
Windows that keep out the rain, doors that close and lock, instrument guages for the engine, a roof, power steering, power brakes, turn signals,
a comfortable seat (non-power, non six-way memory, non-heating, non -cooling), windshield defroster, cabin heater....are plenty enough creature comforts....lol...
My favorite is the grouping of the thicker rear glass with creature comforts.

This is why I started the thread asking "what's missing?". Obviously they are wanting to justify their ZL1 purchases. The ZL1 needs NO justification it speaks volumes for itself.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:45 PM   #119
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My favorite is the grouping of the thicker rear glass with creature comforts.

This is why I started the thread asking "what's missing?".
I'd argue, "What's Missing (from what they could have additionally removed)"...lol....

Still has ON-Star, rear seats, roof liner, carpeting, etc., etc.,...I think they almost chickened out and left in too many "creature comforts" as an appeasement to the gripers....lol...

....a real "stripper"...it ain't.....
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