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Old 05-18-2013, 11:42 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by htron50 View Post
I don't think too many will either. But, for an investigation into a true "lap test" comp it would be good to see both using same tire combo at a minimum and maybe add brakes to ZL1 (though that kinda erodes the validity of a lap test comp. A simple tire change would be more car vs car.

Inquiring (& buying minds) want to know!
Yep, just tires. GMs engineering input most likely went into brakes and wheels and those are functional, permanent parts of the car. Tires, the wear items, is all the ZL1 needs to overturn the stab of manipulative marketing. The car will sell just fine, even at a sky high price based on the merits of its engineering. Poking at its bigger brother was not necessary to justify the price. Gm apparently thought it was. They are worried that people will not pay more for for a car with "less". They took for granted that we appreciate how expensive the engine suspension and brakes are, and that many are Willng to fork out that cash in a heartbeat.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:42 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
The thing is we (Z/28 guys) don't care to compare, only you guys are concerned about it.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:44 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
Tires are very important but I think a lot of people are only focusing on what they want to.

This to me is much more important than just tires....

“We used the very best components in the industry to deliver uncompromised performance, lap after lap,” said Mark Stielow, Camaro Z/28 engineering manager. “We made nearly 200 changes to improve the track performance, which cumulatively make the Z/28 capable of 1.05 g in cornering. For perspective, with all other things, equal increasing maximum grip from 1 to 1.05 g can cut up to four seconds per lap.”

The Camaro Z/28 is the one of the first production cars fitted with race-proven, spool-valve dampers. Compared to a conventional damper that offers only two-way tuning for bump and rebound, a spool-valve damper allows four-way adjustment to precisely tune both bump and rebound settings for high-speed and low-speed wheel motions. The wider tuning range allowed engineers to dramatically increase the damper stiffness on the Camaro Z/28 without a significant change in ride quality. Additional chassis changes include stiffer string rates and suspension bushings for improved cornering response.
You are in the wrong thread then, this one is about the comparison between the zl1 and the z28 on a track...remember
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:45 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
Tires are very important but I think a lot of people are only focusing on what they want to.

This to me is much more important than just tires....

“We used the very best components in the industry to deliver uncompromised performance, lap after lap,” said Mark Stielow, Camaro Z/28 engineering manager. “We made nearly 200 changes to improve the track performance, which cumulatively make the Z/28 capable of 1.05 g in cornering. For perspective, with all other things, equal increasing maximum grip from 1 to 1.05 g can cut up to four seconds per lap.”

The Camaro Z/28 is the one of the first production cars fitted with race-proven, spool-valve dampers. Compared to a conventional damper that offers only two-way tuning for bump and rebound, a spool-valve damper allows four-way adjustment to precisely tune both bump and rebound settings for high-speed and low-speed wheel motions. The wider tuning range allowed engineers to dramatically increase the damper stiffness on the Camaro Z/28 without a significant change in ride quality. Additional chassis changes include stiffer string rates and suspension bushings for improved cornering response.
I agree with the car as a whole being important to its performance. I'm NOT concerned with it being able to better or not better the ZL1. I want it for what it is and how it feels. However I do want it to be highly capable.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:46 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
You are in the wrong thread then, this one is about the comparison between the zl1 and the z28 on a track...remember
These are reasons the Z/28 is faster than the ZL1.... so yeah it's pertinent.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:49 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
You are in the wrong thread then, this one is about the comparison between the zl1 and the z28 on a track...remember
Thanks, and good evening.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:49 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
You are in the wrong thread then, this one is about the comparison between the zl1 and the z28 on a track...remember
The OP mentioned nothing about comparing them, just stating a fact. Nothing with "what ifs".
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:49 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
Yep, just tires.
200 changes... Yeah just tires.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:52 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
Tires are very important but I think a lot of people are only focusing on what they want to.

This to me is much more important than just tires....

“We used the very best components in the industry to deliver uncompromised performance, lap after lap,” said Mark Stielow, Camaro Z/28 engineering manager. “We made nearly 200 changes to improve the track performance, which cumulatively make the Z/28 capable of 1.05 g in cornering. For perspective, with all other things, equal increasing maximum grip from 1 to 1.05 g can cut up to four seconds per lap.”

The Camaro Z/28 is the one of the first production cars fitted with race-proven, spool-valve dampers. Compared to a conventional damper that offers only two-way tuning for bump and rebound, a spool-valve damper allows four-way adjustment to precisely tune both bump and rebound settings for high-speed and low-speed wheel motions. The wider tuning range allowed engineers to dramatically increase the damper stiffness on the Camaro Z/28 without a significant change in ride quality. Additional chassis changes include stiffer string rates and suspension bushings for improved cornering response.
The very best components in the world are of no use if that component enabled heavy ass car cannot stick to the road. Both the z28 and the zl1 share this problem of physics. The issue is that gm fixed the traction issue on only one of them, and then announced that one is faster. Hmmm. Again this tread is about that 3 second difference, and as you posted about above, a 0.05 g difference cuts up to four seconds. Have you ever raced with race slick versus street tires, I have and slicks make street tires feel wet all around the track. You just helped my argument with the 1.05 fact. Thank you. Come on GM, put a set of trofeos on a 2013 zl1 and tell us how it goes.....
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:55 PM   #146
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200 changes... Yeah just tires.
Taken out of context, either ignorant or a cheap shot. I said just the tires is all anyone needs changed to put both cars in a fair test of the zl1's 80% from SS change vs the z28's 200 mods
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:57 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro View Post
The OP mentioned nothing about comparing them, just stating a fact. Nothing with "what ifs".
It is explicitly implied. What else is meant by, " one car is faster than the other," it is a comparison.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:59 PM   #148
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Thanks, and good evening.
Eh, no point really made or stuck, but have a good one anyway.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:03 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
It is explicitly implied. What else is meant by, " one car is faster than the other," it is a comparison.
So who wins?
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:03 AM   #150
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Taken out of context, either ignorant or a cheap shot. I said just the tires is all anyone needs changed to put both cars in a fair test of the zl1's 80% from SS change vs the z28's 200 mods
I will admit that was a mistake on my part. I read "just tires" and quit reading.... All of your post's go the same direction so I just assumed. My bad.

I clearly think you are underestimating this car and all that has went into it. ITS NOT JUST TIRES. I could be wrong and you could be right. Time will tell....
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:06 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
Putting slicks on a car is a marketing decision. If other manufacturers started putting slick compound tired on production cars and making claims of being better than the competitors performance number, you would have a weird cold war that results in all sports car having tires that last two months after purchase...but stick really well.

Gm design or even aid in engineering these tires. They signed a contract to supply that tire with that car.


The same thing can be said about strapping a blower on a 6.2. It's only a marketing decision, right?

GM engineers called for specific tire specs and the tires they are using met those.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:08 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
It is explicitly implied. What else is meant by, " one car is faster than the other," it is a comparison.
The z28 is the faster track car, I think that's obvious. With the same tires the z28 will still be quicker in the corners and getting out of them, and the rest will be up to how long the straights are for the zl1 to make up time.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:08 AM   #153
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I don't claim to be track expert by any means, but I do feel the "3 seconds faster" thing was a little vague. Perhaps not misleading, but does leave a lot to the imagination....

In the long run, I don't think they will finalize a Z/28 that "under-performs" the Zl-1, no matter what it takes to accomplish that. In fact, I think they've got their sites set on a lot bigger fish in the track world...
Yes yes, agreed. This is why I am assuming (my opinion only) that the ring times were a flop against the current zl1 and GM is gonna squeeze more out of the car. So I bet we shall get some announcements of new cuts and mods to the car soon.
"505 HP 427, surprise we meant 600hp 427."
Or
"Did we suggest 3700 lbs, we meant 3300, with an aluminum frame, magnesium sub frame, and balsa wood floors and carbon hood roof trunk wheels trunk floor. Lithium battery too. Price is now only 110,000, but it beat the zl1 at the ring by 8 seconds"
Haha, still if they went that far with the mods, that would be awesome for Camaro people everywhere. I say hell.yeah.
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