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Old 07-08-2012, 01:34 PM   #18
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Interesting JacekPSUr1. I have always been told the destination charge was non-negotiable, even when I was eligible for GMS pricing, because the dealer had to pay that amount. Everything else was negotiable, but not the destination charged. To think all these years the fact that the dealer gets reimbursed for it from Chevrolet has been kept from me.

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Old 08-26-2012, 04:59 PM   #19
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Great post "the_blur"

I would just like to add a few things. I have not purchased a car at MSRP for over twenty years. The info about the holdback not many people know about. I think it is about 3% of the invoice price. I will tell you there are certain times of the year that are the best times to buy a car. End of the year is best. My most recent purchase was a SUV. The MSRP was about 40,000 dollars. The dealers invoice price was about 32,000. I only paid 27$ over the dealers invoice price. SUV's were and may still be one of the most profitable to auto manufactures. I believe a suburban had the potential of 12k profit.
Now with that being said I have an order for a ZL1 vert. It is a very limited production vehicle and as some of you know some dealers are marking up the MSRP 5-10K. Well I'm happy that I'm not going to pay these inflated prices but also will not be able to get the car at dealer invoice. In this case a happy medium will be exceptible. When Im ready to buy a new SUV I will be able to make up the difference.

Oh yeah the destination charge is not negotiable. neither are taxes or tags.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:24 PM   #20
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Just purchased 2013 ZL1 for MSRP minus $1000 rebate plus $150 paper work fee. They are just not going to move much on these, as a very great number of dealersips will never see one. And I do beleive they sell some of these for the $5,000 to $15,000 over MSRP.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:13 AM   #21
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HOLDBACK
While you are welcome to discuss holdback, I will not be doing so. I believe businesses do not have to share their costs with their consumers. We don't ask Taco Bell to sell us their tacos at cost, and we don't ask contractors to work for free, so I don't know why so many people expect car dealers to sell vehicles at a loss. If a dealer promises you a deal below invoice, you have gotten a great deal at the dealer's expense. If you get a deal below holdback, with all likelihood either something is wrong with the car or something is wrong with the dealer. Asking for holdback is not a good way to be taken seriously when negotiating for a deal, and it certainly won't be shown to you during the sales process. In my opinion, invoice is a fair deal. Holdback is robbing the car lot. MSRP is robbing the customer. I'd rather not see anyone on Camaro5 get robbed.
Great post. Some further details on Holdback ...

The holdback is necessary to calculate the actual cost and should be the starting place to calculate the profit you want to give; just don't discuss it aloud as you've said.

Many manufacturers (not all) offer dealers a percentage of (not off) MSRP in the form of what's called a Holdback used to cover the financing of the vehicles. Dealers must pay for the vehicles in advance with loans from the manufacturer or a bank. Chevy offers a holdback; last I checked it's 3% of MSRP. If the car's just arrived, the dealer gets to keep all of the holdback as instant profit. At 45 days he gets to keep 50% of it. Since most dealers rotate their inventory in less than 90 days, they usually get to keep some of the holdback payment.

So, if you're special ordering a Camaro, you and the dealer can strike a win:win negotiation by offering a fair and reasonable profit above the real cost ... Invoice (minus) holdback where holdback is calculated at 3% of the total MSRP of all the options you've ordered. The key here is to make an offer that provides the dealer with a fair and reasonable profit.

You'll see many people on this forum say they got $1,000 off Invoice. Is that "good"? Calculate the total invoice less the $1,000 discount then add back the holdback and decide for yourself. It depends.

NOTE: there are factors other than Holdbacks and Invoice that matter too like local market data (how popular a certain car is or isn't), how long cars are sitting on the lot (look at the sticker on the drivers door, take today's date minus the mfg date on the stick plus on month and that's how long it's been sitting there), cash incentives, rebates that affect the total price of what you should pay for a car.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laborsmith View Post
Interesting JacekPSUr1. I have always been told the destination charge was non-negotiable, even when I was eligible for GMS pricing, because the dealer had to pay that amount. Everything else was negotiable, but not the destination charged. To think all these years the fact that the dealer gets reimbursed for it from Chevrolet has been kept from me.

Laborsmith
Interesting point, I have never paid destination charges. I always asked to have that price removed. When I purchased my 2011 Camaro I think destination was like 900.00. They removed it and I brought the car home. Now I will be ordering a 1LE in March, I am wondering since I will be ordering the car should I feel responsible to pay the destination charge.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:00 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by MINI HLK View Post
Interesting point, I have never paid destination charges. I always asked to have that price removed. When I purchased my 2011 Camaro I think destination was like 900.00. They removed it and I brought the car home. Now I will be ordering a 1LE in March, I am wondering since I will be ordering the car should I feel responsible to pay the destination charge.
One word answer. Yes.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:27 AM   #24
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I too thought destination charges were non-negotiable. Now that doesn't seem to be the case. Is it for all cars on the lot and also ordered?
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:50 AM   #25
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Thank you for posting this article. In my case, I am told that the Invoice does not exist because I am special ordering my Camaro. I am told that since the car does not exist, there is no VIN number. And because there is no VIN number, there is no Invoice. It makes sense, but is it true?
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:06 AM   #26
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Can you receive chevy cash back or usaa discount with invoice pricing?
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:55 PM   #27
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Can you receive chevy cash back or usaa discount with invoice pricing?
My dealer allowed this when I took delivery just this Tuesday (12/11/12).

I received invoice price minus $750 USAA private offer and minus Chevrolet's $500 cash back for a total rebate of $1250.

I don't think they are suppose to give you invoice pricing with the USAA private offer, but my dealer did. I guess it is up to the dealer. Doesn't hurt to try.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:38 PM   #28
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Can you receive chevy cash back or usaa discount with invoice pricing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmmink View Post
My dealer allowed this when I took delivery just this Tuesday (12/11/12).

I received invoice price minus $750 USAA private offer and minus Chevrolet's $500 cash back for a total rebate of $1250.

I don't think they are suppose to give you invoice pricing with the USAA private offer, but my dealer did. I guess it is up to the dealer. Doesn't hurt to try.
Thanks for reply.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:06 PM   #29
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Sorry to bump an old thread as my first post, but I am eligible for a program where I can purchase a GM vehicle for 2% over "dealer cost".

Quote:
Dealer cost is defined as the dealer's cost of the base model vehicle, plus options and dealer marketing charges as shown on the invoice. This calculation excludes provincial and federal taxes, air tax and license fees, along with destination freight charges. Supplier employees can receive additional savings for factory orders.
I am trying to determine before I go in, if the term "dealer cost" may have too much wiggle room in it based on the "plus options and marketing charges" part in the above statement. Is "plus options" at the MSRP of those options or at the dealer cost?

In a perfect world, I would assume this to be true cost - basically what the dealer actually pays GM before icnentives.

I know its never safe to assume anything, but using the example invoice in this thread, would I expect this to be:
a) the amount listed in the MEMO line that states the total less holdback and finance credit ($35179.05)
b) the amount listed as Total ($36826.20)
c) the Total minus holdback ($35710.80)
d) something entirely different?

Thanks for any insight!
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:19 PM   #30
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nice piece very informative but do any of you think that they only make a few hundred off of a $40,000 car? if they did none of them would be in business do you know how much it takes to employ all those people run all the phones keep up some of the elaborate buildings? I worked for a new car dealership and I know there are 3 invoices to each car this is the one that they will show you but it is not the actual cost of the car. you or no one at the dealership will ever see the true one except the person who pays the bills there. I know that the new car dept in every store is number one priority that tells me that that is where the most profit is made not service not used cars not parts. I know someone will disagree with me that is fine but think about it if they only made that much off or you it wouldn't be worth it to them and do any of you know any new car dealers personally? they are usually some of the wealthiest people in town.
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:04 PM   #31
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This is exactly what I was looking for !!
Big thank you !
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:02 PM   #32
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I have an offer for a 2014 2SS 1LE for Invoice minus holdback plus a $699 dealer fee which sounds good but they consider Invoice to include the destination charge ($900), Dealer IMR and LMA Group Contributions ($219+$439). In comparison to what I asked for; $1,000 under Invoice minus the contributions and only adding the destination change the cost difference I estimate to be about $300-$340 based on 2013 pricing. After the dealer fee is added in I'm back at Invoice again.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:21 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
I have an offer for a 2014 2SS 1LE for Invoice minus holdback plus a $699 dealer fee which sounds good but they consider Invoice to include the destination charge ($900), Dealer IMR and LMA Group Contributions ($219+$439). In comparison to what I asked for; $1,000 under Invoice minus the contributions and only adding the destination change the cost difference I estimate to be about $300-$340 based on 2013 pricing. After the dealer fee is added in I'm back at Invoice again.


ok what is the 699 dealer fee i am not fimiliar with that and i am puzzled on how they are negot anything with out pricing... sounds like an asumtion on there part but i like how you nailed the invoice pricing right off the bat... could that 699 dealer fee be a ordering fee???
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:20 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
I have an offer for a 2014 2SS 1LE for Invoice minus holdback plus a $699 dealer fee which sounds good but they consider Invoice to include the destination charge ($900), Dealer IMR and LMA Group Contributions ($219+$439). In comparison to what I asked for; $1,000 under Invoice minus the contributions and only adding the destination change the cost difference I estimate to be about $300-$340 based on 2013 pricing. After the dealer fee is added in I'm back at Invoice again.
The IMR and LMA group contributions are fees the dealer pays into to a regional advertising pool from the MFG. It is a legitimate cost of their doing business. However by joining that pool the dealer is getting back far more than they are spending on advertising otherwise they wouldn’t do it. It is completely voluntary by the dealer, Chevrolet or GM does not force anyone to take part in this. (as opposed to the $900 destination charge which is not voluntary and is part of the price of your vehicle)

Besides by paying these advertising fees and joining the pool the dealer is allowed to take part in Manufacturer incentives and bonuses back to the dealer. For instance there may be special advertising for a 4th of July sale where Chevrolet may enable special pricing or incentives to consumers and a nice hefty bonus to the dealer if they sell enough cars during that time window, and it is only available to dealers that join this advertising pool. This is the reason why sometimes a dealer will sell a car below cost and still make money off the sale. The car they sell you could qualify them for a $25,000 quarterly bonus because it was the 20th Camaro they sold that month.

The fact is that since the invoice price has become so easily obtained with the explosion of the internet dealers and manufactures have year after year been hiding more and more of their profits off of the invoice into other incentive plans and kickbacks from the manufacturer. The only person at the dealership that really knows how much a car costs is probably the sales manager. Dealerships also have so many different ways of making money that new car sales are only a small part of it. They make money off of your trade in, they sell you expensive extras like under-coatings, glass etching, scotch-guard and extended warranties. They make money in the finance department, and they also make money from warranty work on your car over the next several years. All of that adds up to thousands of dollars in profits.

I don’t feel the least bit guilty on getting every dime I possibly can on a deal and neither should you. In your case it sounds like the dealer is trying to confuse or muddy the waters with these extra fees by including them in the invoice price. The $699 sounds like it is supposed to be dealer profit on the sale, since negotiation should start from: Invoice – Holdback + Fair Dealer Profit = your negotiated price target. If you would like I would be happy to do some maths to see if we can figure out what they are doing but this response is already too long as it is. Let me know and I would be happy to bust out the calculator for you so we can determine what kind of deal this is.
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