Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Gen5DIY
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions

Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions Discuss pricing and ordering experiences.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-13-2012, 11:06 AM   #26
Chevyman2
 
Chevyman2's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 C7(awaiting delivery)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 386
Can you receive chevy cash back or usaa discount with invoice pricing?
Chevyman2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 12:55 PM   #27
kmmink
 
Drives: 2013 2LT/RS/GFX CRT/Beige A6
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevyman2 View Post
Can you receive chevy cash back or usaa discount with invoice pricing?
My dealer allowed this when I took delivery just this Tuesday (12/11/12).

I received invoice price minus $750 USAA private offer and minus Chevrolet's $500 cash back for a total rebate of $1250.

I don't think they are suppose to give you invoice pricing with the USAA private offer, but my dealer did. I guess it is up to the dealer. Doesn't hurt to try.
__________________
2013 2LT/RS CRT/Beige A6;Body-color gfx, body-color blade spoiler, body-color grille, body-color engine cover, Sunroof, Navigation, 20" polished aluminum wheels, Spare tire, and Cargo net-Order placed 8/4/12-TPW 8/27/12-Delivered 9/27/12 and 2013 2LT/RS AGM/Gray A6;Body-color gfx, body-color blade spoiler, body-color grille, Sunroof, Navigation, 20" polished aluminum wheels(last years), Spare tire, and Cargo net-Order placed 10/4/12-TPW 10/29/12-Delivered 12/11/12.
kmmink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 01:38 PM   #28
Chevyman2
 
Chevyman2's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 C7(awaiting delivery)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevyman2 View Post
Can you receive chevy cash back or usaa discount with invoice pricing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmmink View Post
My dealer allowed this when I took delivery just this Tuesday (12/11/12).

I received invoice price minus $750 USAA private offer and minus Chevrolet's $500 cash back for a total rebate of $1250.

I don't think they are suppose to give you invoice pricing with the USAA private offer, but my dealer did. I guess it is up to the dealer. Doesn't hurt to try.
Thanks for reply.
Chevyman2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 06:06 PM   #29
YEGrolo
 
Drives: It Has Wheels
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1
Sorry to bump an old thread as my first post, but I am eligible for a program where I can purchase a GM vehicle for 2% over "dealer cost".

Quote:
Dealer cost is defined as the dealer's cost of the base model vehicle, plus options and dealer marketing charges as shown on the invoice. This calculation excludes provincial and federal taxes, air tax and license fees, along with destination freight charges. Supplier employees can receive additional savings for factory orders.
I am trying to determine before I go in, if the term "dealer cost" may have too much wiggle room in it based on the "plus options and marketing charges" part in the above statement. Is "plus options" at the MSRP of those options or at the dealer cost?

In a perfect world, I would assume this to be true cost - basically what the dealer actually pays GM before icnentives.

I know its never safe to assume anything, but using the example invoice in this thread, would I expect this to be:
a) the amount listed in the MEMO line that states the total less holdback and finance credit ($35179.05)
b) the amount listed as Total ($36826.20)
c) the Total minus holdback ($35710.80)
d) something entirely different?

Thanks for any insight!
YEGrolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 11:19 PM   #30
2011black2ss66
 
Drives: 2011 black 2ss sunroof, auto,
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 28
nice piece very informative but do any of you think that they only make a few hundred off of a $40,000 car? if they did none of them would be in business do you know how much it takes to employ all those people run all the phones keep up some of the elaborate buildings? I worked for a new car dealership and I know there are 3 invoices to each car this is the one that they will show you but it is not the actual cost of the car. you or no one at the dealership will ever see the true one except the person who pays the bills there. I know that the new car dept in every store is number one priority that tells me that that is where the most profit is made not service not used cars not parts. I know someone will disagree with me that is fine but think about it if they only made that much off or you it wouldn't be worth it to them and do any of you know any new car dealers personally? they are usually some of the wealthiest people in town.
2011black2ss66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 07:04 PM   #31
Nano
 
Nano's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Chevy Camaro 2ss
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Linden, NJ
Posts: 24
This is exactly what I was looking for !!
Big thank you !
Nano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 04:02 PM   #32
toehead93


 
Drives: 2014 2SS/1LE
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: wpb fl
Posts: 2,733
I have an offer for a 2014 2SS 1LE for Invoice minus holdback plus a $699 dealer fee which sounds good but they consider Invoice to include the destination charge ($900), Dealer IMR and LMA Group Contributions ($219+$439). In comparison to what I asked for; $1,000 under Invoice minus the contributions and only adding the destination change the cost difference I estimate to be about $300-$340 based on 2013 pricing. After the dealer fee is added in I'm back at Invoice again.
__________________
Used Racing Brake 2 Peice Rotors for sale:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344754

Summit White 2014 2SS 1LE
Recaros, NPP exhaust, Nav
2010 2SS A6 - sold.

Last edited by toehead93; 06-19-2013 at 06:38 PM.
toehead93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 10:21 PM   #33
2014v6
 
2014v6's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 black 2 LT
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Fort Worth TX
Posts: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
I have an offer for a 2014 2SS 1LE for Invoice minus holdback plus a $699 dealer fee which sounds good but they consider Invoice to include the destination charge ($900), Dealer IMR and LMA Group Contributions ($219+$439). In comparison to what I asked for; $1,000 under Invoice minus the contributions and only adding the destination change the cost difference I estimate to be about $300-$340 based on 2013 pricing. After the dealer fee is added in I'm back at Invoice again.


ok what is the 699 dealer fee i am not fimiliar with that and i am puzzled on how they are negot anything with out pricing... sounds like an asumtion on there part but i like how you nailed the invoice pricing right off the bat... could that 699 dealer fee be a ordering fee???
__________________
Ordered:May 18 2013
2000 status 6-11-13
3000 status 6-12-13
TPW 7-22-13(6-14-13)
3300 status 6-28-13
3400 status 7-18-13
3800 status 7-20-13
4200 status On its way home
6000 status 7-31-13 first camaro ever...
Sold 7-5-14.. thank you oshawa assembly
2014v6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 02:20 AM   #34
Egon
 
Egon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 2SS/RS 1LE
Join Date: May 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
I have an offer for a 2014 2SS 1LE for Invoice minus holdback plus a $699 dealer fee which sounds good but they consider Invoice to include the destination charge ($900), Dealer IMR and LMA Group Contributions ($219+$439). In comparison to what I asked for; $1,000 under Invoice minus the contributions and only adding the destination change the cost difference I estimate to be about $300-$340 based on 2013 pricing. After the dealer fee is added in I'm back at Invoice again.
The IMR and LMA group contributions are fees the dealer pays into to a regional advertising pool from the MFG. It is a legitimate cost of their doing business. However by joining that pool the dealer is getting back far more than they are spending on advertising otherwise they wouldnít do it. It is completely voluntary by the dealer, Chevrolet or GM does not force anyone to take part in this. (as opposed to the $900 destination charge which is not voluntary and is part of the price of your vehicle)

Besides by paying these advertising fees and joining the pool the dealer is allowed to take part in Manufacturer incentives and bonuses back to the dealer. For instance there may be special advertising for a 4th of July sale where Chevrolet may enable special pricing or incentives to consumers and a nice hefty bonus to the dealer if they sell enough cars during that time window, and it is only available to dealers that join this advertising pool. This is the reason why sometimes a dealer will sell a car below cost and still make money off the sale. The car they sell you could qualify them for a $25,000 quarterly bonus because it was the 20th Camaro they sold that month.

The fact is that since the invoice price has become so easily obtained with the explosion of the internet dealers and manufactures have year after year been hiding more and more of their profits off of the invoice into other incentive plans and kickbacks from the manufacturer. The only person at the dealership that really knows how much a car costs is probably the sales manager. Dealerships also have so many different ways of making money that new car sales are only a small part of it. They make money off of your trade in, they sell you expensive extras like under-coatings, glass etching, scotch-guard and extended warranties. They make money in the finance department, and they also make money from warranty work on your car over the next several years. All of that adds up to thousands of dollars in profits.

I donít feel the least bit guilty on getting every dime I possibly can on a deal and neither should you. In your case it sounds like the dealer is trying to confuse or muddy the waters with these extra fees by including them in the invoice price. The $699 sounds like it is supposed to be dealer profit on the sale, since negotiation should start from: Invoice Ė Holdback + Fair Dealer Profit = your negotiated price target. If you would like I would be happy to do some maths to see if we can figure out what they are doing but this response is already too long as it is. Let me know and I would be happy to bust out the calculator for you so we can determine what kind of deal this is.
Egon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 12:03 PM   #35
toehead93


 
Drives: 2014 2SS/1LE
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: wpb fl
Posts: 2,733
Egon, great information above. Thank you for clarifying the Contribution fees so well. I have run some numbers based on 2013 pricing and the contribution fees and dealer fees add up to about $1, 100 so compared to about $1, 300 black I will be paying about $200 under invoice. I tried s some local dealerships and this is the best offer so far, waiting to hear from one more.
__________________
Used Racing Brake 2 Peice Rotors for sale:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344754

Summit White 2014 2SS 1LE
Recaros, NPP exhaust, Nav
2010 2SS A6 - sold.
toehead93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 02:36 AM   #36
cbass

 
Drives: .
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
No, those prices are separate from the actual invoice price. You can find the vehicle invoice price as the left column besides the words "TOTAL MODEL & OPTIONS." The comprehensive invoice, including destination, is the left item beside the word "TOTAL."
So the destination fee and advertising fees are not included in the dealer invoice?

So is invoice on that $35,554.40 or is it $36,826.20?
cbass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 05:17 PM   #37
Klepton
 
Klepton's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS, LS3, SW w/ IOM package
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egon View Post
The IMR and LMA group contributions are fees the dealer pays into to a regional advertising pool from the MFG. It is a legitimate cost of their doing business. However by joining that pool the dealer is getting back far more than they are spending on advertising otherwise they wouldnít do it. It is completely voluntary by the dealer, Chevrolet or GM does not force anyone to take part in this. (as opposed to the $900 destination charge which is not voluntary and is part of the price of your vehicle)

Besides by paying these advertising fees and joining the pool the dealer is allowed to take part in Manufacturer incentives and bonuses back to the dealer. For instance there may be special advertising for a 4th of July sale where Chevrolet may enable special pricing or incentives to consumers and a nice hefty bonus to the dealer if they sell enough cars during that time window, and it is only available to dealers that join this advertising pool. This is the reason why sometimes a dealer will sell a car below cost and still make money off the sale. The car they sell you could qualify them for a $25,000 quarterly bonus because it was the 20th Camaro they sold that month.

The fact is that since the invoice price has become so easily obtained with the explosion of the internet dealers and manufactures have year after year been hiding more and more of their profits off of the invoice into other incentive plans and kickbacks from the manufacturer. The only person at the dealership that really knows how much a car costs is probably the sales manager. Dealerships also have so many different ways of making money that new car sales are only a small part of it. They make money off of your trade in, they sell you expensive extras like under-coatings, glass etching, scotch-guard and extended warranties. They make money in the finance department, and they also make money from warranty work on your car over the next several years. All of that adds up to thousands of dollars in profits.

I donít feel the least bit guilty on getting every dime I possibly can on a deal and neither should you. In your case it sounds like the dealer is trying to confuse or muddy the waters with these extra fees by including them in the invoice price. The $699 sounds like it is supposed to be dealer profit on the sale, since negotiation should start from: Invoice Ė Holdback + Fair Dealer Profit = your negotiated price target. If you would like I would be happy to do some maths to see if we can figure out what they are doing but this response is already too long as it is. Let me know and I would be happy to bust out the calculator for you so we can determine what kind of deal this is.
The thing is, what SHOULD "Invoice" in the following equation be?

Invoice Ė Holdback + Fair Dealer Profit = your negotiated price target.

Should it be:

1) Invoice + Advert. Fees + Destination charges?
2) Invoice + Advert. Fees?
3) Invoice + Destination charges?
4) Invoice?

Klepton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 06:47 PM   #38
Egon
 
Egon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 2SS/RS 1LE
Join Date: May 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klepton View Post
The thing is, what SHOULD "Invoice" in the following equation be?

Invoice Ė Holdback + Fair Dealer Profit = your negotiated price target.

Should it be:

1) Invoice + Advert. Fees + Destination charges?
2) Invoice + Advert. Fees?
3) Invoice + Destination charges?
4) Invoice?

I didnít go into great detail on that as you can see the post was already rather long as it was. (this one might be longer sorry) :( Here is how I see it, the invoice is the actual cost of the vehicle that I would be attempting to purchase with no additional charges or fees. In other words, the base cost of the vehicle plus any options I selected. For instance using 2013 model data lets calculate the cost of a 2SS, RS, with Navigation, and Dual Mode Exhaust using invoice prices for all options. (pricing info taken from www.kbb.com, www.truecar.com, etc.)

2SS base vehicle: $34,690
RS Appearance package: 1,188
Mylink with Nav: 699
Dual Mode Exhaust: 788

Total invoice cost with options: $34,690 + 1,188 + 699 + 788 = $37,365

The holdback for Chevrolet cars is 3% or $37,365 x 0.03 = $1,202

This means the actual cost of the vehicle to the dealer is $36,162.

That is without taking into account any factory to dealer incentives or bonuses for hitting specific sales targets which can drastically decrease the actual cost of the vehicle to the dealer.

A fair profit is then added to the actual dealer cost, usually calculated to be between 3-5%. Letís use 4% for the example.

$36,162 x 1.04= $37,608

That is the price you are going to shoot for in negotiating with the dealer. Itís just $300 over invoice price and $1,567 off of the MSRP. (MSRP doesnít include the destination charge in my example for reasons I am about to explain) The dealer will still be making $1,446 off of this sale and that doesnít include the before mentioned incentives or bonuses they can earn. Remember the dealer will be making money off of nearly every part of the transaction as I described in my previous post, so the profit from the sale of the new vehicle is just a part of that.

Other fees like the Destination charge which is something charged by Chevrolet, not the dealer is a legitimate charge but is added after. Itís not part of the car, but it is part of the Out The Door cost. (at least the way I see it) Advertising fees would also be added after the fact, same with dealer prep charges or anything else they add that is not directly a cost of the vehicle itself. (rust proofing, vin etching, extended warranty, etc.) Dealer installed options such as stripe packages or different wheels would be considered as part of the Invoice and would be added to the cost just like factory options for example the RS appearance package.

After the price of the vehicle is negotiated then if you agree to any of the additional fees you can add them on. I have made clear my view on the advertising fees, but others will disagree and thatís fine. Lastly you would then subtract any rebates or discounts that you qualify for and subtract the value of your trade in if you have one. Sometimes dealers will try to trick you by including incentives in the price when negotiating down from MSRP, and you think you got $2000 off of the sticker price when in reality it was only $500 because of the $1,500 worth of rebates they already factored in. This is why you always start at or just under the invoice price and work up if necessary and keep everything separate so that you are dealing apples to apples.

Dealers and salespeople have sold dozens if not hundreds of cars and are experts at it. Buyers usually only purchase 1 car every couple of years and are at a disadvantage especially if they donít do their homework ahead of time. Some people donít want to go through all of this hassle though and I understand that. Sometimes itís just easier to use the Costco buying program or whatever the equivalent is that you have access to. But even with that they can still try to tack on those extra fees and expensive extras if youíre not careful.

And on that note I am going to go have some BBQ Happy 4th everyone!
Egon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 01:59 PM   #39
Klepton
 
Klepton's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS, LS3, SW w/ IOM package
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egon View Post
I didn’t go into great detail on that as you can see the post was already rather long as it was. (this one might be longer sorry) :( Here is how I see it, the invoice is the actual cost of the vehicle that I would be attempting to purchase with no additional charges or fees. In other words, the base cost of the vehicle plus any options I selected. For instance using 2013 model data lets calculate the cost of a 2SS, RS, with Navigation, and Dual Mode Exhaust using invoice prices for all options. (pricing info taken from www.kbb.com, www.truecar.com, etc.)

2SS base vehicle: $34,690
RS Appearance package: 1,188
Mylink with Nav: 699
Dual Mode Exhaust: 788

Total invoice cost with options: $34,690 + 1,188 + 699 + 788 = $37,365

The holdback for Chevrolet cars is 3% or $37,365 x 0.03 = $1,202

This means the actual cost of the vehicle to the dealer is $36,162.

That is without taking into account any factory to dealer incentives or bonuses for hitting specific sales targets which can drastically decrease the actual cost of the vehicle to the dealer.

A fair profit is then added to the actual dealer cost, usually calculated to be between 3-5%. Let’s use 4% for the example.

$36,162 x 1.04= $37,608

That is the price you are going to shoot for in negotiating with the dealer. It’s just $300 over invoice price and $1,567 off of the MSRP. (MSRP doesn’t include the destination charge in my example for reasons I am about to explain) The dealer will still be making $1,446 off of this sale and that doesn’t include the before mentioned incentives or bonuses they can earn. Remember the dealer will be making money off of nearly every part of the transaction as I described in my previous post, so the profit from the sale of the new vehicle is just a part of that.

Other fees like the Destination charge which is something charged by Chevrolet, not the dealer is a legitimate charge but is added after. It’s not part of the car, but it is part of the Out The Door cost. (at least the way I see it) Advertising fees would also be added after the fact, same with dealer prep charges or anything else they add that is not directly a cost of the vehicle itself. (rust proofing, vin etching, extended warranty, etc.) Dealer installed options such as stripe packages or different wheels would be considered as part of the Invoice and would be added to the cost just like factory options for example the RS appearance package.

After the price of the vehicle is negotiated then if you agree to any of the additional fees you can add them on. I have made clear my view on the advertising fees, but others will disagree and that’s fine. Lastly you would then subtract any rebates or discounts that you qualify for and subtract the value of your trade in if you have one. Sometimes dealers will try to trick you by including incentives in the price when negotiating down from MSRP, and you think you got $2000 off of the sticker price when in reality it was only $500 because of the $1,500 worth of rebates they already factored in. This is why you always start at or just under the invoice price and work up if necessary and keep everything separate so that you are dealing apples to apples.

Dealers and salespeople have sold dozens if not hundreds of cars and are experts at it. Buyers usually only purchase 1 car every couple of years and are at a disadvantage especially if they don’t do their homework ahead of time. Some people don’t want to go through all of this hassle though and I understand that. Sometimes it’s just easier to use the Costco buying program or whatever the equivalent is that you have access to. But even with that they can still try to tack on those extra fees and expensive extras if you’re not careful.

And on that note I am going to go have some BBQ Happy 4th everyone!
Thanks for the detailed explanation Egon (I'll take your long post and raise you mine)! Unfortunately, I'm still confused on whether the Destination charges and Advertising charges are negotiable or not. Some have said they are and some have said they aren't. For my example, the following are the numbers I was given when I ordered a 2013 2SS/RS 1LE in May (it's supposed to get here today, so I haven't seen the actual invoice yet):

Invoice (base price + total options) = 41,373.21
Advert/Adjustments = 874.60
Destination charge = 900.00
Grand Total = 43,147.81

Option 1)
The following is what I was hoping I could negotiate the price at before I read your previous reply:
43,147.81 (Grand Total from above)
- 874.60 (Minus Advert/Adjustments; is this negotiable or not?)
- 900.00 (Minus Destination charge; is this refunded to dealer?)
----------
41,373.21 (Negotiating Price1)

Option 2)
The following is the price to shoot for in negotiating using your example:
41,373.21 (Invoice; including total options)
-1,241.20 (Minus Holdback; 3% of Invoice)
----------
40,132.01 (Dealer cost?)
+1,605.28 (Plus fair profit; 4% of Dealer cost)
----------
41,737.29 (Negotiating Price2)

As you can see, the Negotiating Price in both options is pretty close to each other (a difference of 364.08), but neither includes the Destination Charge and Advert/Adjustments; so are either a good negotiating price? If so, I'd obviously prefer the lower one but I'm not sure what the best approach to negotiate that price is. My dealer is claiming that "their invoice is their invoice; it's from GM so it doesn't change" and that neither the Destination Charge or the Advert/Adjustments are negotiable, which means they don't want to budge from the original Grand Total of 43,147.81.

Additionally, when I placed my order back in May, a $1000 Rebate was the current offer. However, now there is a $1500 Cash Allowance as the current offer (I haven't read the details on it). Therefore, I don't know which one can/should apply to my order?

The good thing is that I didn't leave any sort of deposit when I placed the order. The bad thing is that I have a short temper and will find it hard to not get mad and get up and leave (and lose this deal) once I feel they are trying to screw me over and don't want to negotiate on the price. I just want to arm myself with the right tools/knowledge to be able to strike a good deal on this car, but I don't know how to reply to their claim that neither the Destination charge or Advert/Adjustments are negotiable.

And on that note, I hope you had a great 4th of July!

Last edited by Klepton; 07-05-2013 at 02:18 PM.
Klepton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 04:57 PM   #40
Egon
 
Egon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 2SS/RS 1LE
Join Date: May 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klepton View Post
Thanks for the detailed explanation Egon (I'll take your long post and raise you mine)! Unfortunately, I'm still confused on whether the Destination charges and Advertising charges are negotiable or not. Some have said they are and some have said they aren't. For my example, the following are the numbers I was given when I ordered a 2013 2SS/RS 1LE in May (it's supposed to get here today, so I haven't seen the actual invoice yet):

Invoice (base price + total options) = 41,373.21
Advert/Adjustments = 874.60
Destination charge = 900.00
Grand Total = 43,147.81

Option 1)
The following is what I was hoping I could negotiate the price at before I read your previous reply:
43,147.81 (Grand Total from above)
- 874.60 (Minus Advert/Adjustments; is this negotiable or not?)
- 900.00 (Minus Destination charge; is this refunded to dealer?)
----------
41,373.21 (Negotiating Price1)

Option 2)
The following is the price to shoot for in negotiating using your example:
41,373.21 (Invoice; including total options)
-1,241.20 (Minus Holdback; 3% of Invoice)
----------
40,132.01 (Dealer cost?)
+1,605.28 (Plus fair profit; 4% of Dealer cost)
----------
41,737.29 (Negotiating Price2)

As you can see, the Negotiating Price in both options is pretty close to each other (a difference of 364.08), but neither includes the Destination Charge and Advert/Adjustments; so are either a good negotiating price? If so, I'd obviously prefer the lower one but I'm not sure what the best approach to negotiate that price is. My dealer is claiming that "their invoice is their invoice; it's from GM so it doesn't change" and that neither the Destination Charge or the Advert/Adjustments are negotiable, which means they don't want to budge from the original Grand Total of 43,147.81.

Additionally, when I placed my order back in May, a $1000 Rebate was the current offer. However, now there is a $1500 Cash Allowance as the current offer (I haven't read the details on it). Therefore, I don't know which one can/should apply to my order?

The good thing is that I didn't leave any sort of deposit when I placed the order. The bad thing is that I have a short temper and will find it hard to not get mad and get up and leave (and lose this deal) once I feel they are trying to screw me over and don't want to negotiate on the price. I just want to arm myself with the right tools/knowledge to be able to strike a good deal on this car, but I don't know how to reply to their claim that neither the Destination charge or Advert/Adjustments are negotiable.

And on that note, I hope you had a great 4th of July!
I did have a great 4th of July, thank you hope you did as well!

In order to get a better idea of what they are doing lets go ahead and build your car and add up all of the totals and see what we get. What options did you get aside from the 2SS/RS and 1LE package? (also if it was one of the premium colors as well) We can then add up all of the invoice prices and get a total and then see where you stand.

As far as the destination charge goes thatís GM billing the dealer for the delivery of the vehicle. It is considered non negotiable and I wouldnít bother arguing with them over that. The Advertising fees however I have a problem with. As I have explained in a previous post on this tread, the dealer gets back far more from that advertising fee or else they would opt out of it. They are allowed special promotions and all kinds of other great benefits as a result of participating.

Itís also good that you were able to get them to order it without a deposit since that is going to strengthen your negotiating position.

The current rebates should be available to you unless you negotiated in writing that you would except only the rebates that were available when you initially ordered it.
Egon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 07:05 PM   #41
Klepton
 
Klepton's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS, LS3, SW w/ IOM package
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egon View Post
I did have a great 4th of July, thank you hope you did as well!

In order to get a better idea of what they are doing lets go ahead and build your car and add up all of the totals and see what we get. What options did you get aside from the 2SS/RS and 1LE package? (also if it was one of the premium colors as well) We can then add up all of the invoice prices and get a total and then see where you stand.

As far as the destination charge goes that’s GM billing the dealer for the delivery of the vehicle. It is considered non negotiable and I wouldn’t bother arguing with them over that. The Advertising fees however I have a problem with. As I have explained in a previous post on this tread, the dealer gets back far more from that advertising fee or else they would opt out of it. They are allowed special promotions and all kinds of other great benefits as a result of participating.

It’s also good that you were able to get them to order it without a deposit since that is going to strengthen your negotiating position.

The current rebates should be available to you unless you negotiated in writing that you would except only the rebates that were available when you initially ordered it.
Well, I didn't want to go into details about the options previously, but the price I stated was the total Invoice price they gave me at time of order (estimated?) including invoice price for the options ($41,373.21).

However, the following are the exact options I ordered:

2013 Summit White 2SS Coupe
RS package
1LE package
Dual-mode performance exhaust
Chevrolet MyLink with Navigation
Illuminated Footwell and Cup Holder lighting
Body-color grill

I just got back from the dealership and we weren't able to close the deal. They offered me a trade-in value for my current car that was way lower than I was expecting. It was $5,303.00 less than the KBB trade-in value for a 2011 2SS/RS with 11,585 miles in EXCELLENT condition. They also did not want to budge on either the Destination charge or Advertisement fees. However, I did find out that the GM Preferred Price ($42,900.75) was a little lower than their Grand Total Invoice price ($43,147.81), which includes the destination charge and advertisement fees, and that the current offer from 7/3/2013 - 7/8/2013 of $1500 cash back is available on all 2013/2014 Camaros (with the exception of a ZL1). They were willing to apply both to my order.

Last edited by Klepton; 07-05-2013 at 07:20 PM.
Klepton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 08:32 PM   #42
Egon
 
Egon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 2SS/RS 1LE
Join Date: May 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klepton View Post
Well, I didn't want to go into details about the options previously, but the price I stated was the total Invoice price they gave me at time of order (estimated?) including invoice price for the options ($41,373.21).

However, the following are the exact options I ordered:

2013 Summit White 2SS Coupe
RS package
1LE package
Dual-mode performance exhaust
Chevrolet MyLink with Navigation
Illuminated Footwell and Cup Holder lighting
Body-color grill

I just got back from the dealership and we weren't able to close the deal. They offered me a trade-in value for my current car that was way lower than I was expecting. It was $5,303.00 less than the KBB trade-in value for a 2011 2SS/RS with 11,585 miles in EXCELLENT condition. They also did not want to budge on either the Destination charge or Advertisement fees. However, I did find out that the GM Preferred Price ($42,900.75) was a little lower than their Grand Total Invoice price ($43,147.81), which includes the destination charge and advertisement fees, and that the current offer from 7/3/2013 - 7/8/2013 of $1500 cash back is available on all 2013/2014 Camaros (with the exception of a ZL1). They were willing to apply both to my order.
I am coming up with $41,358 for your invoice price. (slight rounding on some options) Your 15 bucks off so you probably have added the license plate bracket in there somewhere. (it wonít hurt anything when we discuss numbers though)
  • 2SS Coupe: $34,690
  • 1LE: $3080
  • RS: $1188
  • Dual Mode Exhaust: $787
  • Nav: $699
  • Illuminated Cup Holders: $488
  • Body Color Grille: $426

If we subtract the holdback of 3% we get ($41,358 x 0.03 = $1,240) $41,358 - $1,240 = $40,118 this is the actual price of the car to the dealer. The negotiation target should be $40,118 + 3-5% for their fair profit. Your target price is between $41,321 to $42,123. Then add destination charge of $900 and any other fees you agree to. Then subtract any incentives you qualify for. (currently I think that is a minimum of $1,500 like you said previously)

If you were able to get them to commit to $41,737 before any additional fees your right in the sweet spot. It sounds like your sticking point is the advertising fee and what they are offering you on your trade in.

The supplier price or GM Preferred Price you mentioned is taking into account the $1,500 incentive you qualify for and adding in the destination charge when they arrive at $41,401, so it isnít actually under invoice price. If we make an apples to apples comparison with the target negotiating price the preferred price is actually $42,001 which is $643 over invoice and $264 over your target price. Which would be very close to your target and I would probably accept that depending on how rough negotiations are going.

However the dealer is trying to sweeten their pot in 2 ways. They are adding on those extra advertisement fees of $874.60 and trying to low ball you on your trade in. This is a pretty classic dealer tactic where they will sell the car to you at or close to your low asking price but will make all of that back by giving you less on your trade in. In the end they still make the same amount of money regardless.

Do yourself a huge favor and find the nearest Carmax and take your 2011 there and ask them for a free trade in quote. It will be good for 7 days and I can pretty much guarantee that they will give you a heck of a lot more on your trade in than what the dealer is offering. Use that in your negotiating. The dealer WANTS your trade in BADLY, this is often where the dealership will make the most money on a deal. If the dealer knows you can walk on them with a guaranteed purchase price to one of their competitors they will be forced to offer you more or they donít get your trade in. Trust me this will change the entire negotiation if you do this.

Another option you have is to get the Carmax quote and then try to sell your car privately on Autotrader, or wherever for your best price. If it doesnít sell after 6 days take it back to Carmax and sell it to them for their quoted offer. No muss no fuss, but this assumes you have alternate transportation for a while if you sell your trade in before buying the replacement.

Just remember what you are offering and asking for is not outrageous so stand your ground but be polite. The biggest weapon in your arsenal is to walk out the door, and it sounds like you have all of the info you need to negotiate for a fair price. Please let me know what happens if you go back to talk to them again.
Egon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 09:57 PM   #43
kevinw

 
Drives: 2013 Black 2 LT vert
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: kansas city
Posts: 1,516
if a car is on the lot for a year (a 2013 vert on lot, since sept 2012 is new with 58 miles , rebate is 1500 and invoice with dest. is 36259. they asking 34,350 but that is the 1500 rebate going to the dealer. i figure if the car is on lot a year, and 2014 are on lot, woulnt 33,000 to 33,500 be more appropriate for a purchase? thanks
kevinw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #44
hgoodiii
 
Drives: Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 4
Hi all, my apologies for reopening his discusion but I have a couple of questions that I have missed in this thread. How does the dealerships get imbursed for GM cash allowances and supplier pricing. Do they receive a dollar for dollar reimbursement? I have a deal working for $5,000 cash allowance and supplier pricing savings of $2,776 for a 2013. Does the dealershiop get the total of $7,776 back from GM? Thanks.
hgoodiii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 08:39 AM   #45
The_Blur
Jayhawk USN
 
The_Blur's Avatar
 
Drives: 6.2L of AWESOME! 2011 L99 2SS
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NAS Whiting Field
Posts: 14,276
Send a message via AIM to The_Blur
Quote:
Originally Posted by hgoodiii View Post
Hi all, my apologies for reopening his discusion but I have a couple of questions that I have missed in this thread. How does the dealerships get imbursed for GM cash allowances and supplier pricing. Do they receive a dollar for dollar reimbursement? I have a deal working for $5,000 cash allowance and supplier pricing savings of $2,776 for a 2013. Does the dealershiop get the total of $7,776 back from GM? Thanks.
GM is paying for any GM-specific offers. They send a check to the dealer for their incentives. I can't say for certain how reimbursement works with supplier pricing, but I will point out that invoice and supplier pricing are generally very close together.
The_Blur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 10:22 AM   #46
hgoodiii
 
Drives: Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 4
Thanks very much.
hgoodiii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 09:32 PM   #47
RubencitoVL
 
RubencitoVL's Avatar
 
Drives: 2LT/RS
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: FL
Posts: 3
Hello all, went to a dealership to ask for 2013 2lt /RS, automatic, they told me $35k min w/o taxes, registration. I said too high; I waited a little bit & went online & threw an offer of $32k max w/tax, title & registration. One replied w/almost exact what I wanted minus interior color (not by much). I got what I wanted for $32,400 final price to include tax, title and registration ;in addition it came with $400 painted rims & $900 sunroof ;oh & $750 accessory free, which I chose high wing spoiler. Was that a good deal?


Thanks
Ruben
__________________
Slow your rrrrrrrol, you already #1

Last edited by RubencitoVL; 11-19-2013 at 12:46 PM.
RubencitoVL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2014, 01:51 PM   #48
its a syn
B.O.D. 02/16/10
 
its a syn's Avatar
 
Drives: 4000 h.p. yellow beasts
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Albia,Iowa
Posts: 3,319
I like this thanks
__________________
its a syn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2014, 05:20 PM   #49
Ryder
 
Drives: 2013 1ss 1le
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Coeur D Alene Idaho
Posts: 46
I sell below invoice and most of my holdback or close to it is generally knocked off the final price as well. I don't believe by any means that asking a dealer about holdback is a bad call. If they hit certain numbers from the manufacture they get a bonus from said manufacture. in some cases this is hundreds of thousands of dollars especially for volume dealers. Don't believe me give me a call. I will be at invoice minus x amount(holdback) Minus all mfg rebates that you qualify for plus 395 in fees . Im at flat invoice plus 395 on zl1s .I will show you my invoice at time of delivery. Great info in this thread but there are exceptions.
__________________
2013 1LE
Ryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2014, 05:21 PM   #50
Ryder
 
Drives: 2013 1ss 1le
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Coeur D Alene Idaho
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
GM is paying for any GM-specific offers. They send a check to the dealer for their incentives. I can't say for certain how reimbursement works with supplier pricing, but I will point out that invoice and supplier pricing are generally very close together.
supplier pricing is several hundred less than invoice usually.
__________________
2013 1LE
Ryder is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
cost, holdback, invoice, invoice price, msrp, pricing

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GT5 Camaro pics brantley847 Camaro Photos | Spyshots | Video | Media Gallery 93 05-27-2013 09:35 PM
GM unveils Jay Leno Camaro, Camaro Synergy, Camaro Chroma, Camaro Dusk at SEMA irocnroll 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 101 02-27-2012 01:25 PM
Gran Turismo 5... No Camaro? 5thGenOwner 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 111 12-06-2011 11:06 AM
SEMA Show 2010 - New Camaro Products Showcase - pictures & descriptions! Sean@Phastek Camaro Photos | Spyshots | Video | Media Gallery 59 06-23-2011 01:56 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.