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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 05-21-2013, 01:07 AM   #251
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Laser focusing on cutting as much stuff as possible without sacrificing safety was a huge key to make the Z/28 100 pounds lighter than the SS and 300 pounds lighter than the ZL1. That means the Z28 will weight slightly more than a 2LS V6 Camaro, and awfully close to the Mustang GT. Forged wheels round out the weight-loss program, giving this Camaro the best power to weight ratio out of any version of Camaro.

ZL1 Coupe
Weight - 4,120 lbs
Power - 580 HP
P/W - 7.103 lbs/HP

Z/28
Weight - Estimated 3,760 2LT coupe M6 weighs 3,740 lbs
If P/W = ZL1
Power = 529.354 HP
If P/W > ZL1
Power = 530 HP+

Is a 6% power bump reasonable?

So am I on a good course or just way off base?
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:02 AM   #252
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Every "pro" Z/28 person in here knows that tires make a difference and has said so....
How much you wanna bet some of these posters are an only child or the youngest? You know, the ones that won't stop crying until they're acknowledged. I mean their opinion was made days ago, but now it's about trying to salvage broken fragile pride! I've heard people repeat themselves but this is :rep osthorse:
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:31 AM   #253
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How much you wanna bet some of these posters are an only child or the youngest? You know, the ones that won't stop crying until they're acknowledged. I mean their opinion was made days ago, but now it's about trying to salvage broken fragile pride! I've heard people repeat themselves but this is :rep osthorse:
Yeah I think you're pretty darned close with that assessment. If the adults here ignore the kiddies maybe we can continue the conversation without the adolescence.

I thought it was interesting to see the excitement and enthusiasm both Mark Reuss and Al O have demonstrated with this car. You can tell they're busting a gut trying to keep from letting the cat out of the bag on what this car can do, but they still can't resist dropping hints. It must be that good.

When Mark Stielow talks about over 200 changes, and they've only really spoken publicly of less than 20... you have to wonder what all he's actually done. This is going to be REAL good lol.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:36 AM   #254
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Hey Guys...long time lurker, first time poster (no, no pics yet :p )

I've been following this thread with some amusement on both sides of the argument. Here's my take (in multiple parts):

1) It would be awesome to see the 2 cars run head-to-head on as-similar-as-possible tires to isolate the improvements. For academic purposes only, since stock-vs-stock they come with the tires they come with.

2) Given the anecdotal evidence presented here and a few other places..even with the same tires I would expect the Z/28 to beat the ZL1 in nearly all "track" scenarios. Notice I said "track"..as in a prepared racetrack where the racing suspension of the Z/28 can be maximized and the magnetic magic of the ZL1 would have a minimal impact compared to a "road course" like the 'Ring where the surface is varied and downright brutally bumpy in some places.

3) I think everyone in this thread is giving WAY too much credence to the "3 seconds faster thing". Did anyone consider (and if I missed it somewhere in the thread, my humble apologies) that the 3-seconds is just GM sandbagging the advantage the Z/28 showed so as to not make the ZL1 look "too" bad and thus hurt sales. Basically...trying to avoid the "Osborne Effect". I mean think about it...if one does rough extrapolation of the times and distances versus some other tracks with known lap times of all the interested parties...if we take the "tires are the only difference" tact then one could argue that the 1LE is just a tire change away from matching the ZL1 on many if not most of those tracks. $20k buys a lot of tires :p Are we going there? 'Cause that's where some of this logic train is headed if allowed to run its course.

Here's my best wild @$$ guess: Z/28 is actually 5 seconds faster at Milford. Will be 6 seconds faster after final tuning is complete and the car is release to production. About 1.5s to 2s is attributable to the tires. And the "newly revised lap times" won't be released until pricing and limited availability of the car is announced so as to not hurt ZL1 sales in the mean time. When announced, it will wind up being at least $70,000 with a very limited run which will push out-the-door prices over $100k to pure collectors and enthusiasts...thus ensuring that it won't cannibalize ZL1 sales.

Anywho...nice to meet you all and you may now continue your regularly scheduled equine gibbing fest :p
Welcome! Interesting wild guesses. Probably pretty close on the times. I think the price will be low $60k and they'll make as many as customers want, but the stealerships out there will absolutely try to jack up the prices as high as they possibly can. I don't know about $100k but $10k-$20k above sticker... yep.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:44 AM   #255
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So am I on a good course or just way off base?
Looks pretty good to me. I'm thinking they've got the power up to above 520 hp so it could be as high as 540; they certainly have the technology to do it. Al O said they exceeded their goal of 100 lbs less than an SS so the Z/28 is more than 100 lbs lighter, we just don't know how much more. It could be closer to 3,700 lbs. Heck I've got my SS down to 3,688 and that's with full stock interior, radio, speakers, carpeting, sound-proofing, A/C, etc. so I think it's quite possible they may have gotten the weight down below 3,700 lbs.

It's clear they don't want to give away all their advantages at this point because I'm sure both Ford and Dodge would LOVE to know what numbers they need to beat hehe. Man it's sure a great time to be a performance enthusiast.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:49 AM   #256
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Looks pretty good to me. I'm thinking they've got the power up to above 520 hp so it could be as high as 540; they certainly have the technology to do it. Al O said they exceeded their goal of 100 lbs less than an SS so the Z/28 is more than 100 lbs lighter, we just don't know how much more. It could be closer to 3,700 lbs. Heck I've got my SS down to 3,688 and that's with full stock interior, radio, speakers, carpeting, sound-proofing, A/C, etc. so I think it's quite possible they may have gotten the weight down below 3,700 lbs.

It's clear they don't want to give away all their advantages at this point because I'm sure both Ford and Dodge would LOVE to know what numbers they need to beat hehe. Man it's sure a great time to be a performance enthusiast.
I'm not sure I can see the power being pushed up that high. It seems like a lot more than a CAI, headers and a tune can deliver. They would have to change the cam at least, right?

I think they will wait until it is almost released before we start seeing hard numbers. I don't think they want a repeat of the ZL1.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:29 AM   #257
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I'm not sure I can see the power being pushed up that high. It seems like a lot more than a CAI, headers and a tune can deliver. They would have to change the cam at least, right?

I think they will wait until it is almost released before we start seeing hard numbers. I don't think they want a repeat of the ZL1.
Those mods on an LS7 will make exactly 540 eng HP. Very common list of mods for Z06's.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:34 AM   #258
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How much you wanna bet some of these posters are an only child or the youngest? You know, the ones that won't stop crying until they're acknowledged. I mean their opinion was made days ago, but now it's about trying to salvage broken fragile pride! I've heard people repeat themselves but this is :rep osthorse:
You guys are right, it is useless to argue with the ignorant here, you just keep going in circles and don't care to let any others have opinions on your dream car, unless they are delusional like yourselves. I shall retire from LALA-land (this thread) and leave your guys to pat each other's backs.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:12 AM   #259
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:24 AM   #260
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I'd like to see a rear seat delete option fom the factory. That would be a nice weight saving measure and would make sense for a track car.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:57 AM   #261
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Those mods on an LS7 will make exactly 540 eng HP. Very common list of mods for Z06's.
Wouldn't the have to re-certify the engine?
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:41 PM   #262
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I'd like to see a rear seat delete option fom the factory. That would be a nice weight saving measure and would make sense for a track car.

I was thinking about this as well.... Anybody know how much the rear seat weighs? Does it weigh enough that it could actually change the weight distribution.... Maybe that's why they are leaving it in
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:58 PM   #263
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I was thinking about this as well.... Anybody know how much the rear seat weighs? Does it weigh enough that it could actually change the weight distribution.... Maybe that's why they are leaving it in
Theyre leaving it in because its technically a street car. The camaro was a 4 seater so theyre keeping with tradition otherwise the Z/28 would be no bigger than a vette since theyd only use 2 seats instead of 4 right?
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:19 PM   #264
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the Boss LS didn't have a back seat. I am kind of curious as to why they wanted to leave it in.

I hope GM has fixed some of the LS7 valve train issues. I am assuming yes and a warranty will cover it but the last thing anyone wants to have happen is to drop a valve on the race track.

Plenty of youtube videos for those who do not know.

Speaking of the LS7 - cam only on many Z06s put them at well over 500whp. A Z/28 will fly.

But Doc - Z/28 faster than a Z06???? Bold Statement my friend.

I could see it. The Corvette's never got this type of dedication. The Z07 was a few minor mods/upgrades but it made a world of difference. I think had they built a purpose built track Corvette with the LS7 it would have crushed the ZR1's time.

At this point i think the Z/28 is out of my price range but I am sticking around to see what this thing can do. Need to know if i need to worry about them at the track
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:34 PM   #265
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the Boss LS didn't have a back seat. I am kind of curious as to why they wanted to leave it in.

I hope GM has fixed some of the LS7 valve train issues. I am assuming yes and a warranty will cover it but the last thing anyone wants to have happen is to drop a valve on the race track.

Plenty of youtube videos for those who do not know.

Speaking of the LS7 - cam only on many Z06s put them at well over 500whp. A Z/28 will fly.

But Doc - Z/28 faster than a Z06???? Bold Statement my friend.

I could see it. The Corvette's never got this type of dedication. The Z07 was a few minor mods/upgrades but it made a world of difference. I think had they built a purpose built track Corvette with the LS7 it would have crushed the ZR1's time.

At this point i think the Z/28 is out of my price range but I am sticking around to see what this thing can do. Need to know if i need to worry about them at the track
The 1le beat the ls3 c6's lap times on several tracks regardless of the 600lb weight disadvantage. Wouldn't be surprised if the z/28 beats the ls7 c6 as well with all they have put in to it. The z07 is much tougher competition with its suspension upgrades. We'll see. Looking forward to what Stielow has in store for us.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:24 PM   #266
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The 1le beat the ls3 c6's lap times on several tracks regardless of the 600lb weight disadvantage. Wouldn't be surprised if the z/28 beats the ls7 c6 as well with all they have put in to it. The z07 is much tougher competition with its suspension upgrades. We'll see. Looking forward to what Stielow has in store for us.
I think the main point is that they aren't done with the Z/28. They won't release the ring times/ exact specs until it is finished. They gave us glimpse of how fast it is by saying that it's 3 seconds faster around Milford than the ZL1. I am certain that tires can make a big difference, but I am also fairly certain that swapping tires on the ZL1 isn't going to make that difference up. We also don't know what tires the ZL1 was running for the comparison.

They have said that the Z/28 will be faster than the Zl1. I believe them others don't. I'm sure we will see a comparison between the two with the same tires when the time comes.

Finally there is no way the Z/28 will be faster than the Z07. ZL1 is a pretty tall order but they have already thrown that gauntlet down, faster than a Z06 would be amazing.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:53 PM   #267
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I was thinking about this as well.... Anybody know how much the rear seat weighs? Does it weigh enough that it could actually change the weight distribution.... Maybe that's why they are leaving it in
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Theyre leaving it in because its technically a street car. The camaro was a 4 seater so theyre keeping with tradition otherwise the Z/28 would be no bigger than a vette since theyd only use 2 seats instead of 4 right?
I think I read in a BMR build thread that it was 30-40 lbs total.

Didn't Reuss say in an interview that they would not make any Camaro a 2 seater since they already have the Vette?
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:42 PM   #268
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I think I read in a BMR build thread that it was 30-40 lbs total.

Didn't Reuss say in an interview that they would not make any Camaro a 2 seater since they already have the Vette?
Yeah, I heard that as well.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:47 PM   #269
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The rear seat in the Z/28 is a light weight version. It has no real frame and no folding mechanism. I think it is suppose to save 9 pounds. From the Car and Driver story on the Z/28...
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:28 PM   #270
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I think it was said that the back seat frame was 29 lbs.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:14 PM   #271
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Wouldn't the have to re-certify the engine?
SAE power ratings are voluntary and not mandatory, not all cars have a SAE rating on the new system (hence BMW power ratings disparity).
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:03 PM   #272
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Yeah I think you're pretty darned close with that assessment. If the adults here ignore the kiddies maybe we can continue the conversation without the adolescence.

I thought it was interesting to see the excitement and enthusiasm both Mark Reuss and Al O have demonstrated with this car. You can tell they're busting a gut trying to keep from letting the cat out of the bag on what this car can do, but they still can't resist dropping hints. It must be that good.

When Mark Stielow talks about over 200 changes, and they've only really spoken publicly of less than 20... you have to wonder what all he's actually done. This is going to be REAL good lol.

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Old 05-23-2013, 10:49 PM   #273
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...OK, I'm past getting used to new technology, break neck speed product advancements, real time digital communication, and how fast things come at us <being an older challenged guy>....but, I am getting close to experiencing an anxiety attack waiting for the final dislcosure on this thing that we have begged for quite some time.....enter that Z!!!
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:40 AM   #274
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:08 AM   #275
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...OK, I'm past getting used to new technology, break neck speed product advancements, real time digital communication, and how fast things come at us <being an older challenged guy>....but, I am getting close to experiencing an anxiety attack waiting for the final dislcosure on this thing that we have begged for quite some time.....enter that Z!!!
I'm ready to see some final numbers. No more speculation.
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