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Suspension / Brakes / Chassis All suspension, brakes and chassis discussions.

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Old 05-30-2013, 02:47 PM   #26
CHMSC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaphappy View Post
Just called Tire Rack and they won't even sell me 270/35/20. I would love the Michelin Super Sports, but there's got to be a reason they wont sell them to me. I think I'm just going to stick with Pirellis, I got 26,000 miles out of them. They were quiet and grippy, at least to me as a novice.

I called my local tire store. They will sell me the tires and mount them on my wheels but will not put them on the car due to liability reasons. The stock tires for our cars are rated a little higher than the PSS. As others have mentioned our stock tires are like SUV tires and are rated accordingly Pete and others run different tires without a problem. Here are the specs of both tires.


PZERO

275/40ZR20
106Y XL 220 AA A 2094 lbs.
50 psi
10/32"
35 lbs. 9-11"
9.5"
11"
10.2"
28.7"

BR , MX , BR PSS

275/35ZR20
RF 300 AA A 1874 lbs.
50 psi
10/32"
27 lbs. 9-11"
9.5"
10.9"
10.2"
27.6"
755
FR

besides the size difference in the side wall the PZERO's are rated to hold 220 lbs more than the PSS. That is why they won't sell you the tires since they do not meet the factory specs GM said these cars should have on them.


Input from others would be appreciated.......Maybe Pete can chime in and give you and me a little more info.
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:21 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by CHMSC View Post
I called my local tire store. They will sell me the tires and mount them on my wheels but will not put them on the car due to liability reasons. The stock tires for our cars are rated a little higher than the PSS. As others have mentioned our stock tires are like SUV tires and are rated accordingly Pete and others run different tires without a problem.
All that is understood. Part of what's missing is what inflation pressures that the two tire sizes (and load designations) have their rated load linked to.

To some extent, you can "crutch" the 'operating' load capacity of a "smaller" tire upward by running the inflation pressure up by a small number of psi. I've got some really old tables that are good enough for many such purposes if you work the numbers a little, but what you'd really want is the latest Tire & Rim Association book complete with the current load vs inflation tables. Not free, and not cheap.

Kind of separate is that the maximum corner weight of a Camaro is well below 2094 lbs (it's closer to 1250, maybe 1300 lbs at a WA-Guesstimated 4800 GVW), and that it's highly unlikely that the 2094 load rating is consistent with the inflation pressures called for with any trim of Camaro and tire size.

I would not be surprised to find that there are other considerations besides load capacity @ inflation as well.


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Old 05-30-2013, 03:52 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHMSC View Post
I called my local tire store. They will sell me the tires and mount them on my wheels but will not put them on the car due to liability reasons. The stock tires for our cars are rated a little higher than the PSS. As others have mentioned our stock tires are like SUV tires and are rated accordingly Pete and others run different tires without a problem. Here are the specs of both tires.


PZERO

275/40ZR20
106Y XL 220 AA A 2094 lbs.
50 psi
10/32"
35 lbs. 9-11"
9.5"
11"
10.2"
28.7"

BR , MX , BR PSS

275/35ZR20
RF 300 AA A 1874 lbs.
50 psi
10/32"
27 lbs. 9-11"
9.5"
10.9"
10.2"
27.6"
755
FR

besides the size difference in the side wall the PZERO's are rated to hold 220 lbs more than the PSS. That is why they won't sell you the tires since they do not meet the factory specs GM said these cars should have on them.


Input from others would be appreciated.......Maybe Pete can chime in and give you and me a little more info.
I really appreciate all the technical info. Maybe I'll get the Michelins put on the front!
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:52 PM   #29
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Using the ZL1 at 4,200 pounds + maximum combined passenger and cargo weight of 732 pounds the maximum Camaro weight would be 4,932 pounds.

Quote:
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You raised a very good question and deserve a good answer. Normally I would be very concerned with a lower load rating, but the Camaro is an exception. The OEM tires and wheels are HUGE with a load rating similar to an SUV and not a car. No tire company will approve a fitments with a load rating lower than OEM for a number of reasons. That doesn't make them right.

The OEM Load Rating Totals 8,376 pounds.
The Re-11 Load Rating Totals 6,612 pounds.

I cannot say that GM is wrong to have a truck like load rating for the tires nor would I say that Bridgestone is wrong in calling this a non-conforming application. I can say, that in my opinion a total load of 6,612 pounds is more than I will need in this particular vehicle. Pedders is no different than Bridgestone and GM so we call this a non-conforming application as well.
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:55 PM   #30
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i am the same as above I run a lower load rating at 1800ish on road course, the shop wouldnt put them on because they were a lower load rating than stock. They did however mount and balance them to my wheels and I mounted the wheels to the car.

They are suv tires and have a load rating a suv or truck needs. our car is heavy....not that heavy.

Mr Pete beat me to it...but more testimonial for the question I guess.
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:59 PM   #31
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What about Nitto Invos. Definitely pretty. I'm searching on here now. Getting a little concerned Invos are louder and ride rougher. Again, this is my daily driver, actually my only car, ha!
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:42 PM   #32
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What about Nitto Invos. Definitely pretty. I'm searching on here now. Getting a little concerned Invos are louder and ride rougher. Again, this is my daily driver, actually my only car, ha!
My first choice for the 5th Gen is Bridgestone with XL side walls, but they don't come in 20s. The ZL1 Spec GYs are excellent. PS IIs are as well, but they wear the shoulders much faster than the other two.
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Old 05-30-2013, 05:06 PM   #33
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A local guy quoted me $550 out the door for the OEM Pirellis, just need the back tires right now, couldn't resist, $275 each with installation. He got em from tire rack, but he said sometimes he gets better offers than us. Tire rack has em right now for $248 each without shipping and installation.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:28 PM   #34
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I have run Hawk HPS pads on my car for the last 10k miles or so and they are great, big improvement over stock and haven't squealed at me yet. I put the HP+ pads on for track days and wow, big step up and squeals like a stuck pig. Love them though, just not for everyday. Good thing they are so easy to change!
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:51 AM   #35
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HP+ pads have are 1,000 degree pads. The Camaro is a big fast automobile. 1,000 pad is OK for an autocross, but not for a road course. A 1,000 degree pad will be operating at the upper edge or above the upper range. Pad failure is never good, especially on track.
Never buy a brake pad for road course use that does not clearly state the temperature range. NEVER.

Here is a ink to temperature rated Hawk pads.

www.hawkperformance.com/motorsports/

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The larger pad and clamping area of a 6 pot caliper offers an improvement in actual distance and also in the consistency of stopping power when running at extreme loads on a road course. As mentioned earlier in the thread the variation in the size of the pistons produces even clamping across a larger pad. The strength of the caliper has a direct impact on stopping power. The better the design and manufacture of the caliper the stronger it will be. A full on NASCAR two pot setup is vastly superior to any production car brake.



Ducts are quite important as well. You have all seen pictures of glowing red hot rotors. The typical track pads have a max temp of 1200 degrees or less. The highest heat range pads are 2000 degrees. This chart is not specifically for brakes. It is a steel temperature by color chart.





Brown Red is 1100 Fahrenheit! You can check your brake rotor temp with Temperature Indicating Brake Paint. It is available here: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=4974

The ventilation design of any rotor is a significant factor in rotor temperatures on track. Assuming Racing Brake has the best design available, they will still run cooler with brake ducts fitted. The faster you go, the harder you brake the more heat you will generate. Calipers, rotors, pads and ducts are all essential for optimal performance.
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:44 PM   #36
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HP+ pads have are 1,000 degree pads. The Camaro is a big fast automobile. 1,000 pad is OK for an autocross, but not for a road course. A 1,000 degree pad will be operating at the upper edge or above the upper range. Pad failure is never good, especially on track.
Never buy a brake pad for road course use that does not clearly state the temperature range. NEVER.

Here is a ink to temperature rated Hawk pads.

www.hawkperformance.com/motorsports/
So Pete, would this mean that say if my HPS pads were exposed to roughly 1,221+ degrees Fahrenheit that they'd still be usable? Or no?
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Old 06-02-2013, 03:09 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
HP+ pads have are 1,000 degree pads. The Camaro is a big fast automobile. 1,000 pad is OK for an autocross, but not for a road course. A 1,000 degree pad will be operating at the upper edge or above the upper range. Pad failure is never good, especially on track.
Never buy a brake pad for road course use that does not clearly state the temperature range. NEVER.

Here is a ink to temperature rated Hawk pads.

www.hawkperformance.com/motorsports/
Thanks for the link.

All I can say is that if the HP+ is considered a low torque level pad, every OE pad that works with iron rotors and even Hawk's own HPS must be off the chart on the low end.


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Old 06-02-2013, 04:28 PM   #38
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So Pete, would this mean that say if my HPS pads were exposed to roughly 1,221+ degrees Fahrenheit that they'd still be usable? Or no?
If you have exceeded the operating temperature range for the pad compound the binder that holds the pad material together is most likely weakened. I wouldn't drive on them. I have had pads fail on the track. I have been very fortunate. I was able to safely leave the course. There are only three things that keep you from disaster on a road course.

1. The Driver's Good Judgement
2. Good Tires
3. Good brakes.
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:31 PM   #39
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If you have exceeded the operating temperature range for the pad compound the binder that holds the pad material together is most likely weakened. I wouldn't drive on them. I have had pads fail on the track. I have been very fortunate. I was able to safely leave the course. There are only three things that keep you from disaster on a road course.

1. The Driver's Good Judgement
2. Good Tires
3. Good brakes.
Got it. So my pads are ruined.

Any chance the rotors are still usable?
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