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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 05-19-2013, 01:06 PM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacnJsn95 View Post
Dyno testing went well I suppose... The Cold Rush intake is showing appx. the same gains as it has in the past on a different dyno, so that's a plus. The "cold runs vs hot runs" really showed some surprising results. The "competitor's" intake managed to stay within 3 hp of it's hot and cold runs while the stock intake lost 7hp from the repeatable cold numbers to repeatable hot numbers, and the JF Cold Rush lost 9hp from the repeatable cold to hot runs...

Defining cold/hot: A new intake was put on cold. The car was started, and with the radiator fans hot wired on via the fan trick, the CLT was allowed to stabilize at it's lowest point with the hood open. Typically the CLT would get down to 199 before the runs were started with the exception of the last run which was the JF intake was started at 203 because it wasn't getting any colder, at the time the CLT was deemed at it's lowest point, the fans were turned off and the hood closed for the runs... For the "hot" runs, the hood was left closed after 3-5 "cold" runs (after a repeatable number was run), and the car idled for appx 5 minutes, when the "hot runs" were started the CLT was always about 216 +- 1-2 deg, then the car was run again until a repeatable "hot" number was run...

Unfortunately, I don't have the dyno sheets as the printer was not working as per my usual luck when I go to dyno something :( I'm currently waiting for the run files to be emailed to me, but im sure it won't be until Monday at the earliest now as I haven't received them yet. I do have all of the run numbers written down, just no curves.

Keep in mind, not only am I on a different dyno, but I've also added high flow cats, and a ported TB since my last time on the dyno, so the numbers won't really coincide with older numbers exactly since they are higher.

Stock intake runs
"Cold": 388 HP 395.3 TQ
"Hot": 381 HP 397.1 TQ

Brand X intake runs
"Cold": 392 HP 403.6 TQ
"Hot": 388 HP 399.8 TQ

JF Cold Rush Runs
"Cold": 409.0 HP 407.1 TQ
"Hot": 400.3 HP 413.4 TQ


Needless to say, it was interesting. I expected more of Brand X, but I find it hard to believe that the dyno, or the testing was being run improperly as I've tested my intake 3 times now, on 2 different dynos, with 3 different operators, and my outcome over stock has been about the same each time. This was the first and only time I have, or plan to run Brand X on the Dyno.

A note on these numbers, posted... Typically I will junk the high and low numbers, although in this instance the Cold Rush instance was a repeatable number so I kept it, the Brand X cold run "repeatable" number is less than shown, but I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt with it's highest run as I thought it would be more... "Hot" run numbers shows the highest run from two runs that were within 0.8hp of each other.

I will edit this once I have dyno charts to post.
Nice numbers Jason! The cool thing is that even the hot numbers of the Cold Rush beat the cold numbers of brand X! My only concern is that there may be a bit of heat soak more so on the Cold Rush than Brand X! Jason, can you elaborate?

edit: I just noticed that the torque actually went UP in the hot run! Interesting!
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:35 PM   #352
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:10 PM   #353
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Whatever "brand x" was... doesnt jive with the big JRE test I think... for scientific reasons, one may try to repeat the test on another car, and see if results can be duplicated.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:35 PM   #354
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Whatever "brand x" was... doesnt jive with the big JRE test I think... for scientific reasons, one may try to repeat the test on another car, and see if results can be duplicated.
If you watched the JRE test live and then read what Jason did I think he went out of his way to make the comparisons accurate. His results being different isn't any different than others that have tested brands A, B C, etc. found them not to be inline with that test. You can only do so much.

I know he has someone else lined up that is going dyno this intake versus another brand. If I understood correctly this will be brand "T" tuned versus Cold Rush tuned. Now this will be a much more telling comparison since each will be optimized.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:24 PM   #355
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If you watched the JRE test live and then read what Jason did I think he went out of his way to make the comparisons accurate. His results being different isn't any different than others that have tested brands A, B C, etc. found them not to be inline with that test. You can only do so much.

I know he has someone else lined up that is going dyno this intake versus another brand. If I understood correctly this will be brand "T" tuned versus Cold Rush tuned. Now this will be a much more telling comparison since each will be optimized.
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:46 AM   #356
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If you watched the JRE test live and then read what Jason did I think he went out of his way to make the comparisons accurate. His results being different isn't any different than others that have tested brands A, B C, etc. found them not to be inline with that test. You can only do so much.
Didn't know JRE did a live test that we could watch... I think the most of the testing was done before i was on this site though... and no, have not seen many others that found results not inline with JRE (got links, as I'd be interested). I do know the assumed 'brand X' has a good rep here.

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I know he has someone else lined up that is going dyno this intake versus another brand. If I understood correctly this will be brand "T" tuned versus Cold Rush tuned. Now this will be a much more telling comparison since each will be optimized.
That part will be interesting as well!
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:29 PM   #357
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I do know the assumed 'brand X' has a good rep here.
You are correct about that.

What has always been odd to me is that many will buy one intake, state it as the best, and never test it or anything else. Then there are others that find the need to actually look for better, even if it means making their own or in my case made a hybrid out of things I liked from 3 different systems. I really liked my hybrid but also found Vararam to be my favorite.

With that said, I no longer have a horse in this race. However I stayed subscribed because Jason's motivation and hard work to make a better intake and bring it to the masses is interesting to me.
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:43 PM   #358
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Quote:
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Whatever "brand x" was... doesnt jive with the big JRE test I think... for scientific reasons, one may try to repeat the test on another car, and see if results can be duplicated.
While this may be completely coincidence, historically if you search back through what testing has been done (You will have to do some serious digging, as I have done in the past), I can recall several times where Brand X has been compared to Brand Y, or Brand Z, and Brand X has either gone home in the trunk of the car, or ended up in the trash can. Is it due to a cheap marketing scheme? Brand Z just wanting to make Brand X look bad? Hard to say, but I have never seen another test (intake vs intake) jive with the JRE test.

Why is this? Well, to my knowledge, no one else that has done this test can provide 60 mph winds at the front end of the car as JRE can... An intake comparison test w/ 60 mph winds vs a box fan on the front of the car will most likely show very different numbers. The big problem with some of the testing which has been mentioned time and time again by a few people is that while you're doing your daily driving sitting at a stop light, there are no 60 mph winds blowing on the front of your car while you're stopped and it's heating up... Hence it's a completely different test all together. The numbers will probably never jive, as Brand Y and Brand Z have shown... That is, IF Brand Y and Brand Z are stand up guys and would admit that they were producing an inferior product compared to Brand X.... Have I lost you yet?

This was my first time running Brand X on the dyno, but not the first time on the street, or at the drag strip. I was honestly hoping for a larger gain to be shown here from Brand X, although when I've run it at the strip, I have typically seen very similar trap speeds to sock (usually within 1mph or less), so I should have figured as such would be shown.

So back to the most recent test... The numbers the dyno operator wrote down on paper were all mixed up, some were standard correction numbers, some were SAE, and some HP numbers were even transposed from the TQ numbers... I finally received the dyno run files and was able to look at them myself and make sure everything was right. Please disregard the previous numbers, and for those just catching up, I have already gone back and erased the previously posted numbers. All numbers shown in the following dyno graph are SAE corrected.



Runs #1 and #2 are the JF Cold Rush "Cold runs" then "Hot Runs", runs #3 and #4 are Brand X "Cold" then "Hot", and runs #5 and #6 are the stock airbox with stock filter "Cold" then "Hot"... 22 dyno pulls were made total, and these numbers shown were repeatable within 1hp or less both hot and cold.

So getting back to 60 mph winds vs a Box fan at the front of the car... I've done this 3 times, 2 different dynos, 3 different operators, I'm seeing appx. the same gains when comparing the JF Cold Rush vs Stock, untuned, regardless of which design revision I have tried... With a box fan. This test was run on 92 Oct E10 fuel out of the pump. The JF Cold Rush box tested this time was tested with Reflectix insulation available at Lowe's as the new mold for the silicone insulation was not finished yet for the larger airbox, which may have something to do with the heat soak difference, however, it's the first time I've tested "cold" vs "hot", and as I've always said, you can't escape the heat. So the results may be the same even with silicone box insulation... When the intake tubes were removed, the Cold Rush silicone intake tube was just warm to the touch both inside and out, where was Brand X was burning hot as has been previously mentioned by several people in the past during daily driving.

I guess the next step is to get the "production" Cold Rush intake to the Name That Intake! contest winner so it can be tested against Brand T(uned) vs Cold Rush tuned (if that's still a go)... Current time frame, is unknown but getting closer; the new box insulation mold for the larger air box is still being worked on, as is the "No-Tune" maf piece. The "Tune" maf piece mold has not even been started on and I'm still waiting for the prototype to be finished.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-25-2013, 04:17 PM   #359
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Just using common sense here and just for conversation: I would just believe that if all variables except the intake are kept the same, it shouldn't matter. Yes you may get better numbers across the board with one "wind machine", but the differences between the intakes "should be the same"(numbers wise), using simple math.
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Old 05-25-2013, 05:23 PM   #360
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Jason, I think you've made it as fair as possible. It all looks good and I wouldn't spend anymore time or money doing comparisons. However I do hope the comparison between tuned Cold Rush and tuned brand T happens.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:41 PM   #361
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Cool. I'll be waiting for it... probably a Christmas present for myself at this point
What is the theory on the tune version? Bigger maf housing?
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:59 AM   #362
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What is the theory on the tune version? Bigger maf housing?
Pretty much correct. Because it will be tuned, you aren't limited by meeting the stock tune fueling requirements. With that said, tuning the no tune version should pick up a few more HP, which is what I'm so interested to see.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:05 AM   #363
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Nice looking CAI , good on the numbers also
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:14 PM   #364
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Cool. I'll be waiting for it... probably a Christmas present for myself at this point
What is the theory on the tune version? Bigger maf housing?
The MAF housing for the "tune" version of the intake will go on the outside of the silicone tube, which would allow for a true 4" ID intake tube with no "neck down" like the "no tune" maf piece... I think I am finally to the point where I am willing to tune my car, so I will probably test out the first prototype on my car when it is ready... I just have to figure out who and/or how I will tune it. There is no one local.
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Old 06-08-2013, 10:14 PM   #365
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What's the latest on a possible ETA?
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:40 PM   #366
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:56 PM   #367
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http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=hPyIS...%3DhPyIS33QKCk
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:51 PM   #368
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I can't stand the suspense. I've been holding off on buying a CAI waiting for the JacFab, but I might crack soon and buy an ADM!
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:53 PM   #369
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I can't stand the suspense. I've been holding off on buying a CAI waiting for the JacFab, but I might crack soon and buy an ADM!
I hate to admit it but that happened to me. I will swap to the JacFab depending on the final product.

I think Jason will make it hard for me to not want the Cold Rush CAI.

The ADM Race Intake is excellent and the price was right.

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Old 06-14-2013, 02:27 PM   #370
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As I've mentioned before, I don't expect anyone to wait, if you feel the need to mod, please run out and do it. I'm not going to get into the specifics of why it's not done yet, or try to make a BS excuse to string you along. I'm sure most of you can come up with a logical reason of why it's not on the market yet...

I'm trying as hard as I can with limited time and resources. It's come a long way from the initial design, it's just that last finish push to get everything into production and being assembled which is, apparently, the hardest part.
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Old 06-14-2013, 02:44 PM   #371
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As I've mentioned before, I don't expect anyone to wait, if you feel the need to mod, please run out and do it. I'm not going to get into the specifics of why it's not done yet, or try to make a BS excuse to string you along. I'm sure most of you can come up with a logical reason of why it's not on the market yet...

I'm trying as hard as I can with limited time and resources. It's come a long way from the initial design, it's just that last finish push to get everything into production and being assembled which is, apparently, the hardest part.
Always is! That's how it is at our company. R&D and raw engineering is fun. Doing the paperwork to get it released and built... that SUCKS. Always seems to be really hard to start a new project after you're done crossing t's and dotting i's too.
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x = ac97968bd3df8f968c8cd3df998a9c94d3df9c8a918bd3df9c 909c94df8c8a9c949a8dd3df92908b979a8ddf998a9c949a8d d3df8b968b8cd1
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Old 06-14-2013, 02:57 PM   #372
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So brand X makes 4HP over stock when cold.
JacFab makes 21HP over stock when cold.



Assuming that brand X is who we all expect it to be, these 2 CAI's are not THAT different in design to logically explain a difference of 17HP from one to the other. That seriously makes me question this data and the accuracy of it with there being such a huge difference.

No matter how hard this guy has worked, and how much testing he has done, and how much time and energy he has into his product (and I am NOT discounting any of that) we are expected to believe that there is that big of a difference between the 2 systems? I mean aren't many always saying that some of these gains that companies make are ridiculous, but this one is supposedly making 17HP MORE than what we are all assuming is the leading competitor, and in this test that company only made 4hp?

It just does not add up. The simple fact that YOU are testing YOUR OWN product, which YOU will be making money off of if ever released, after YOU have spent so much of your own resources on leaves a huge bias.

If your CAI makes that much power and is that much better than the competition I would be the first to check it out. I think some reputable 3rd part testers (not your local dyno shop where you and the guy might be buddies) that we know and trust around here need to verify these #'s, because they simply don't add up to me, as well as some of the posters above judging from a few of the comments.

Again I want to believe you, but the gains just seem way to far apart for it to be accurate compared to everything we have been seeing here from so many others.
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:08 PM   #373
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I think what your are missing is the huge differnce. One has a straight air flow path, the other has a very messy air flow path. Airflow doesn't do well with turbulence.
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:21 PM   #374
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I think what your are missing is the huge differnce. One has a straight air flow path, the other has a very messy air flow path. Airflow doesn't do well with turbulence.
Assuming we are comparing the 2 same intakes, I would strongly disagree. 90% of the tube looks identical. The box is fitted in the same manner. And they are both pulling air from the same location. The only difference is the filter inlet and filter itself, and if that was such a limiting factor stick a CAI type tube on the stock airbox with a scoop and see probably pretty close to the same gains. It still doesn't add up.

That's my whole point, these 2 systems are very much alike, put the 2 on a flow bench and see what they do, I seriously doubt that one out flows the other enough to make a 17 rwhp difference. The designs are far to alike for that kind of variance. The gains to me are just way to far apart, and are not verified by anyone else up to this point other than the guy making them.
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:59 PM   #375
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Assuming we are comparing the 2 same intakes, I would strongly disagree. 90% of the tube looks identical. The box is fitted in the same manner. And they are both pulling air from the same location. The only difference is the filter inlet and filter itself, and if that was such a limiting factor stick a CAI type tube on the stock airbox with a scoop and see probably pretty close to the same gains. It still doesn't add up.

That's my whole point, these 2 systems are very much alike, put the 2 on a flow bench and see what they do, I seriously doubt that one out flows the other enough to make a 17 rwhp difference. The designs are far to alike for that kind of variance. The gains to me are just way to far apart, and are not verified by anyone else up to this point other than the guy making them.
Jason had/has individuals and performance shops ready to test and report once the final product is ready to be released. He has been very straight forward with this. I was to be one of the final testers but no longer have my Camaro. He doesn't expect anyone to purchase based soley on his findings.
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