Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Nickey Chicago
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Forced Induction - V8

Forced Induction - V8 V8 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-12-2013, 01:22 PM   #1
Fiftydriver

 
Fiftydriver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SSRS RJT L99
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 1,189
Stock LSX376-B15, anyway to increase compression ratio

Hey guys,

I have been reseaching a somewhat affordable way to up the power in my 2010 camaro. Working on the fuel system upgrades now and will be pretty much ready for the final engine upgrade.

I have been looking really hard at the new LSX376-B15 long block but the only thing that is really scaring me away from this is the 9:1 compression. My car is a 100% street car, no strip time at all so street manners are far more important to me then very top end power. I have been told that the 9:1 compression will result in a very sluggish feel when out of boost. Having been driving my L99 with the Maggie for a while, I love the instant grunt with that combo but the L99 has the higher 10.4:1 compression which makes it feel very stout on the street even out of boost.

Back to the LSX376-B15 long block, is there anyway to raise the compression ratio near 10:1 without replacing the pistons, such as shaving the heads to decrease combustion chamber volume or go with thinner head gaskets.

I realize there may be issues created with valve clearance and thinner head gaskets may not be a great idea for running 12-15 lbs of boost.

Anyway, just looking for any experience, love the idea of the LSX376-B15 being relatively affordable, fully forged and capable of handling at least 15 lbs of boost. Not only that, you can get one shipped today!!! No wait.

Just looking for advice.

Thanks for your time
__________________
Fiftydriver

2010 SSRS, RJTC, L99, Maggie 2300 SC, 3.4" pulley, Roto-Fab CAI, Dynatech Supermaxx LT headers, Dynatech High Flow cats, Corsa Cat back exhaust, Elite Engineering catch can, MSD wires and Jannetty custom tune, JRE custom diff w/ posi mod, 3.91 LPE gears, Pfaht trailing arms, Pfaht trailing arm and Diff bushings, drop springs and sport sway bars front and back, Fesler dual guage pillar pod w/ AM Cobalt Boost and A/F guages.

LS3 conversion, LPE dual fuel pump, Upgraded injectors, JRE Maggie Stage 2 upgrade kit, JRE smooth Idle Blower cam. Looking for 700 RWHP in the end.
Fiftydriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 01:46 PM   #2
TinyToasta
 
TinyToasta's Avatar
 
Drives: way too fast....
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 278
I was facing the same issue on my build - especially as I wanted to keep my maggie - the low compression doesn't really fit the bill for this sort of blower. That's why I'm building my engine now using a LSA block, shooting for 14-15 lbs of boost with around 10.1-10.4 of compression.

The LSA block will withstand far more power than a Maggie can deliver, is lighter and available as well ...

Sorry for not answering your question, I didn't even check the options of reducing cr on the LSX... the LSA was the obvious solution for me!
__________________
custom build forged LSA, 376ci, TVS2300@12.6psi, 675rwhp/676ft-lbs, built by Henrik Racing, Customkingz, tuned by Jannetty Racing
JRE rough idle cam, JRE ported lower intake manifold, OD cog drive, 6% OD crank pulley, ported ls3 heads, JRE Maggie Max Stg.1
Pfadt Cradle Bushings, Arms & Rods, Pedders Supercar w/FE4 conversion, ZL1 sways, HE Twin Carbon Street Slayer, DSS 1000hp Axles
CTS-V Brake upgrade, Street: 22'' Vossen CV1, Strip: 18'' Forgestar F14 on MT Street Radials
TinyToasta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 01:57 PM   #3
KCS
 
KCS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Pontiac Trans Am
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
Back to the LSX376-B15 long block, is there anyway to raise the compression ratio near 10:1 without replacing the pistons, such as shaving the heads to decrease combustion chamber volume or go with thinner head gaskets.
You would need to take out roughly 10cc out of the chamber to get up to 10:1, which is kind of a lot. By the time you do that, considering the labor, machining costs, new gaskets and bolts, etc you may want to consider a custom LS3 shortblock. I just quoted a gentleman looking at a 416ci ERL longblock for 12psi and it was pretty comparable to the LSX376.
KCS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 04:13 PM   #4
Unreal

 
Drives: 2006 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,738
You could do a forged (with nicer pistons) block from a good vendor for the same or less and not worry about this.
__________________
Nick
2006 Corvette Z06 -1047rwhp
Unreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 04:19 PM   #5
old motorhead

 
Drives: Maggie blown LS3 vette
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SE TX
Posts: 1,253
Isn't the LSx376 an iron block? Low compression, heavy assed block (totally unnecessary if a TVS2300 is your power adder), powdered metal connecting rods.....it just doesn't add up to me vs building an LS3 block based motor like it needs to be built for the job you're wanting to do. If the motor you have now is in good shape, it's worth quite a bit. Get you a motor built, that EXACTLY matches (no compromises) what you're trying to accomplish. It won't cost any more and you'll be much happier with the outcome.
old motorhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 04:45 PM   #6
Unreal

 
Drives: 2006 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,738
Exactly. Look at the options from livernois/TSP. I would just call Livernois and order a nice forged ls3 setup for $5k or so, and be happy. Sell stock motor for $3500 or so.
__________________
Nick
2006 Corvette Z06 -1047rwhp
Unreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 05:19 PM   #7
Fiftydriver

 
Fiftydriver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SSRS RJT L99
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by old motorhead View Post
Isn't the LSx376 an iron block? Low compression, heavy assed block (totally unnecessary if a TVS2300 is your power adder), powdered metal connecting rods.....it just doesn't add up to me vs building an LS3 block based motor like it needs to be built for the job you're wanting to do. If the motor you have now is in good shape, it's worth quite a bit. Get you a motor built, that EXACTLY matches (no compromises) what you're trying to accomplish. It won't cost any more and you'll be much happier with the outcome.
Yes its around 100 lbs heavier then the LS3 but I was looking simply for longevity more then anything.

The LSX376-B15 is fully forged, forged pistons, forged crank. The one you are thinking of is not labeled as the LSX376-B8 designed for lower boost levels.

Just checked with one very good shop and was quoted $14K for a 416 forged long block. Now that did not include the core charge discount and this was a top of the line engine with best of the best parts used throughout. Well worth the price tag I am sure, just not sure if I could remain married if I dropped this amount of cash on an engine!!! Plus add in the added cost for very high end fuel supply system to feed it and installation cost of the engine, I would be pushing $20K very quickly and thats more then I want to spend.

Just figured that with the $7100-$7300 cost of the LSX376-B15 long block, throw on my Maggie off my current motor, drop $1000 on fuel pump upgrades and figure $2500-$3000 for complete installation of motor and I would be around $11-$12K with the ability to hit that 700-750 rwhp range safely and comfortably.........

If the LSX376-B15 had a 10:1 to 10.4:1 compression ratio, I would jump all over it but just worried how the lower comp at 9:1 will feel for street use???? And again, as mentioned, I can order one today and it will ship tomorrow.
__________________
Fiftydriver

2010 SSRS, RJTC, L99, Maggie 2300 SC, 3.4" pulley, Roto-Fab CAI, Dynatech Supermaxx LT headers, Dynatech High Flow cats, Corsa Cat back exhaust, Elite Engineering catch can, MSD wires and Jannetty custom tune, JRE custom diff w/ posi mod, 3.91 LPE gears, Pfaht trailing arms, Pfaht trailing arm and Diff bushings, drop springs and sport sway bars front and back, Fesler dual guage pillar pod w/ AM Cobalt Boost and A/F guages.

LS3 conversion, LPE dual fuel pump, Upgraded injectors, JRE Maggie Stage 2 upgrade kit, JRE smooth Idle Blower cam. Looking for 700 RWHP in the end.
Fiftydriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 05:35 PM   #8
H-E

 
Drives: 2010 zr1 Camaro 2011 vert
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: everywhere
Posts: 394
You are correct that the cr will hurt you a ton with the maggie.We have helped build some of the highest hp maggie builds to date and will gladly take care of your build as well as taking your stock motor in trade.Give me a call and ill be glad to help you with your complete build.
H-E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 06:10 PM   #9
Supercharged SS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sandy Hook, CT
Posts: 12,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
Yes its around 100 lbs heavier then the LS3 but I was looking simply for longevity more then anything.

The LSX376-B15 is fully forged, forged pistons, forged crank. The one you are thinking of is not labeled as the LSX376-B8 designed for lower boost levels.

Just checked with one very good shop and was quoted $14K for a 416 forged long block. Now that did not include the core charge discount and this was a top of the line engine with best of the best parts used throughout. Well worth the price tag I am sure, just not sure if I could remain married if I dropped this amount of cash on an engine!!! Plus add in the added cost for very high end fuel supply system to feed it and installation cost of the engine, I would be pushing $20K very quickly and thats more then I want to spend.

Just figured that with the $7100-$7300 cost of the LSX376-B15 long block, throw on my Maggie off my current motor, drop $1000 on fuel pump upgrades and figure $2500-$3000 for complete installation of motor and I would be around $11-$12K with the ability to hit that 700-750 rwhp range safely and comfortably.........

If the LSX376-B15 had a 10:1 to 10.4:1 compression ratio, I would jump all over it but just worried how the lower comp at 9:1 will feel for street use???? And again, as mentioned, I can order one today and it will ship tomorrow.
Did you look into forging your ls3 that you currently have.
Supercharged SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 06:34 PM   #10
Unreal

 
Drives: 2006 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,738
There are differences in forged parts. Like pointed out, the pistons are a low quality alloy compared to most forged pistons.

$14k is crazy. I paid less than that for a top of the line 427.
__________________
Nick
2006 Corvette Z06 -1047rwhp
Unreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 06:36 PM   #11
JLE58

 
Drives: CGM,twin turbo, cam 2010 SS/RS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ROCKMART, GA
Posts: 2,191
Doesn't that block still use powder metal rods which stock rod bolts?
JLE58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 06:56 PM   #12
ADM PERFORMANCE

 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 #138
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DfW - Texas
Posts: 3,733
Don't change the compression. We have used this engine already
And is not a slug.

I love how these Internet engineers always seem to try
To steer people away from gm crate engines... Ask real supporting vendors
These questions and you will get real answers due to real
World experiences used everyday.

I say go Lsx and never look back...
ADM PERFORMANCE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 06:59 PM   #13
ADM PERFORMANCE

 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 #138
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DfW - Texas
Posts: 3,733
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLE58 View Post
Doesn't that block still use powder metal rods which stock rod bolts?
When's the last time you broke a powder metal rod?

Let me guess, the Internet said they are no good.

Proper built/tuned engines don't break rods or fail
Bearings or pistons.
ADM PERFORMANCE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 07:36 PM   #14
old motorhead

 
Drives: Maggie blown LS3 vette
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SE TX
Posts: 1,253
Isn't there a guy on here with a Maggie blown low compression 416 that's stuck around the 600rwhp number? Isn't a forged crank a bit overkill at any hp number a Maggie is capable of? Not for a moment saying it's a bad choice. Just that I think there are better bang for the buck options out there.

Unless I read things wrong, TxSpeed has a forged long block LS3 with ported heads for around $8K. All new parts. New block, new ported heads, and your choice of custom cam. Your choice of compression ratio. You don't get a forged crank, but that isn't an issue at Maggie hp levels. If you think a forged crank is necessary, it's available for a few more bucks.

I know I'm a bit of an internet racer, but my TxSpeed long block will show up next week. It's an iron block, but it's also going in a truck. Maggie blown of course
old motorhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 08:40 PM   #15
H-E

 
Drives: 2010 zr1 Camaro 2011 vert
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: everywhere
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by old motorhead View Post
Isn't there a guy on here with a Maggie blown low compression 416 that's stuck around the 600rwhp number? Isn't a forged crank a bit overkill at any hp number a Maggie is capable of? Not for a moment saying it's a bad choice. Just that I think there are better bang for the buck options out there.

Unless I read things wrong, TxSpeed has a forged long block LS3 with ported heads for around $8K. All new parts. New block, new ported heads, and your choice of custom cam. Your choice of compression ratio. You don't get a forged crank, but that isn't an issue at Maggie hp levels. If you think a forged crank is necessary, it's available for a few more bucks.

I know I'm a bit of an internet racer, but my TxSpeed long block will show up next week. It's an iron block, but it's also going in a truck. Maggie blown of course
I wouldnt be so quick to discount a crank.I have one of those LSX crate motors and a maggie,3000 miles and the crank broke
H-E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 09:21 PM   #16
old motorhead

 
Drives: Maggie blown LS3 vette
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SE TX
Posts: 1,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by H-E View Post
I wouldnt be so quick to discount a crank.I have one of those LSX crate motors and a maggie,3000 miles and the crank broke
So.....your forged crank in your LSX broke?
old motorhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 09:24 PM   #17
Supercharged SS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sandy Hook, CT
Posts: 12,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by old motorhead View Post
So.....your forged crank in your LSX broke?
Bummer. My stock crank works just fine after 17k miles.
Supercharged SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 09:30 PM   #18
old motorhead

 
Drives: Maggie blown LS3 vette
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SE TX
Posts: 1,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercharged SS View Post
Bummer. My stock crank works just fine after 17k miles.
Yeah...if your forged crank breaks, it's time to get a FERD PUSTANG, or just buy a horse....the horse will probably run better
old motorhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 10:27 PM   #19
Fiftydriver

 
Fiftydriver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SSRS RJT L99
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercharged SS View Post
Did you look into forging your ls3 that you currently have.
That is an option I have been looking at as well. I have been flooding Ted with questions so he is probably about to block my e-mails!!! LOL
__________________
Fiftydriver

2010 SSRS, RJTC, L99, Maggie 2300 SC, 3.4" pulley, Roto-Fab CAI, Dynatech Supermaxx LT headers, Dynatech High Flow cats, Corsa Cat back exhaust, Elite Engineering catch can, MSD wires and Jannetty custom tune, JRE custom diff w/ posi mod, 3.91 LPE gears, Pfaht trailing arms, Pfaht trailing arm and Diff bushings, drop springs and sport sway bars front and back, Fesler dual guage pillar pod w/ AM Cobalt Boost and A/F guages.

LS3 conversion, LPE dual fuel pump, Upgraded injectors, JRE Maggie Stage 2 upgrade kit, JRE smooth Idle Blower cam. Looking for 700 RWHP in the end.
Fiftydriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 10:37 PM   #20
Supercharged SS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sandy Hook, CT
Posts: 12,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
That is an option I have been looking at as well. I have been flooding Ted with questions so he is probably about to block my e-mails!!! LOL
That's all I ended up doing. I've pleased with the reliability, drive ability, and performance. I'm sure Ted will take care of you. I think your biggest problem will be the blower. The Maggie Max parts are no longer available which will cap the blowers performance.
Supercharged SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 11:04 PM   #21
Pro Stock John
Shizzler
 
Pro Stock John's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SS / 1951 Mercury
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,200
If you buy that longblock you can run more boost and still be on pump gas. Look into Padre's car he just went to some heads that lowered his compression.
__________________
PROJECT HEAVY CHEVY: 2010 Camaro SS/RS |1SS | L99 | CGM
13.15@106 1.95 | Stock
12.06@110 1.70 | Bolt-Ons
Mods: GPI Tune | Bo White PTP | Kooks Headers | Circle D 3200 | New Era OTR | RCR Ported Intake | 305/45R18 NT05R | Powerbond UDP

LSX Record List: http://motorhed.com/xf/threads/lsx-r...the-list.6022/
Pro Stock John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 01:04 AM   #22
2SS45th


 
2SS45th's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 Seconds or Faster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 2,801
I have 9:1 compression in my LSX motor, doesn't feel sluggish at all, they have great low end grunt, and they can handle lots of boost because of the compression.
__________________
I Ain't About That Stock Life.

2SS45th is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 01:51 AM   #23
2ss-booya

 
2ss-booya's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 CRT 6M
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 772
Send a message via Skype™ to 2ss-booya
I'm going the route of the lsx 376 b15....ill let you know how it is in a few weeks. BTW theyre forged powdered metal rods
2ss-booya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 05:36 AM   #24
JLE58

 
Drives: CGM,twin turbo, cam 2010 SS/RS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ROCKMART, GA
Posts: 2,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE View Post
When's the last time you broke a powder metal rod?

Let me guess, the Internet said they are no good.

Proper built/tuned engines don't break rods or fail
Bearings or pistons.
I was breakin rods and blowing up ls1's when you were still driving rx7's and long before you had a shop so don't come at me like I don't know. Anyone that uses stock rod bolts on this motor with alot of power isn't very smart Anyone that recommends it is even worse. Dyno queens with low rpm's don't break parts properly built or not. Sure the motor will work with a Maggie but so would a motor with just pistons and rods and a stock crank and the stock ls3 heads. I still would want better rods on this motor and there is no way in hell I would test the rod bolts.

Last edited by JLE58; 06-13-2013 at 06:29 AM.
JLE58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 05:50 AM   #25
JLE58

 
Drives: CGM,twin turbo, cam 2010 SS/RS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ROCKMART, GA
Posts: 2,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by H-E View Post
I wouldnt be so quick to discount a crank.I have one of those LSX crate motors and a maggie,3000 miles and the crank broke
Never seen or heard of anyone breaking a stock crank.
JLE58 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.