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Old 06-13-2013, 01:18 AM   #273
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The be all end all of Camaro is the ZL1. and it's proven. If I wanted the best Camaro out there for all around race and street enjoyment ...it wouldn't be a car that is so low it's impractical. a car that has no creature comforts, and all the rags will confirm. but who is going to pay the $80k plus ADM to get one just to make it a trailer queen? be compliant Doc! The few that are made will be as out of reach for most. doubt any will be seen on the street anyway. and who talks about "just track cars" ....won't be produced enough to hope over IMHO.

Oh... 1/4 time = 12.2 due to gearing
You don't go to road course tracks, do you? You would be AMAZED at what people bring to the track. I've seen people bringing cars worth a lot more than $80k on trailers, along with $100k+ motor homes as support vehicles.

I don't understand why there seems to be confusion about what the Z/28 is and what it's specifically designed for. The ZL1 is a great all-round car that can be taken on a track and do well. However the Z/28 is SPECIFICALLY designed to be optimal for road course track racing, just like the COPO is specifically designed for drag strip racing. Unlike the COPO however the Z/28 happens to be street legal. It's not intended to be a daily driver or a comfortable street car; that's what ALL the other Camaro models are for. It WILL BEAT all the other Camaro models on the road course, including the ZL1 because that's SPECIFICALLY what it's being designed to do.

So why is it street legal then? I highly suspect it's being set up for pro racing where it has to be street legal and produced in sufficient numbers to qualify as a production car; just like the original Z/28 needed to qualify for the SCCA requirements to compete in the Trans Am championship series.

Mark Stielow has said this car is designed to (and can) run out an entire tank of gas non-stop on the track without any overheating issues. That is clearly NOT for HPDE or autocross as none of those kinds of events allow you to run non-stop until you run out of gas.

You'd be surprised at how much people spend on their Camaros; way beyond the price of the Z/28 whatever it's going to finally be. It's not out of reach for as many as you might think. And this car is going to bring in customers that were never Camaro customers before; people who are used to spending 2 to 3 times that much and they're going to think the Z is a bargain! It's a special car for a special purpose and that specialty crowd has money. People thought the ZL1 was too expensive and yet look how many of those have sold. The Z/28 is going to sell more than you think.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:04 AM   #274
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You don't go to road course tracks, do you? You would be AMAZED at what people bring to the track. I've seen people bringing cars worth a lot more than $80k on trailers, along with $100k+ motor homes as support vehicles.

I don't understand why there seems to be confusion about what the Z/28 is and what it's specifically designed for. The ZL1 is a great all-round car that can be taken on a track and do well. However the Z/28 is SPECIFICALLY designed to be optimal for road course track racing, just like the COPO is specifically designed for drag strip racing. Unlike the COPO however the Z/28 happens to be street legal. It's not intended to be a daily driver or a comfortable street car; that's what ALL the other Camaro models are for. It WILL BEAT all the other Camaro models on the road course, including the ZL1 because that's SPECIFICALLY what it's being designed to do.

So why is it street legal then? I highly suspect it's being set up for pro racing where it has to be street legal and produced in sufficient numbers to qualify as a production car; just like the original Z/28 needed to qualify for the SCCA requirements to compete in the Trans Am championship series.

Mark Stielow has said this car is designed to (and can) run out an entire tank of gas non-stop on the track without any overheating issues. That is clearly NOT for HPDE or autocross as none of those kinds of events allow you to run non-stop until you run out of gas.

You'd be surprised at how much people spend on their Camaros; way beyond the price of the Z/28 whatever it's going to finally be. It's not out of reach for as many as you might think. And this car is going to bring in customers that were never Camaro customers before; people who are used to spending 2 to 3 times that much and they're going to think the Z is a bargain! It's a special car for a special purpose and that specialty crowd has money. People thought the ZL1 was too expensive and yet look how many of those have sold. The Z/28 is going to sell more than you think.
I just don't think there will be too many Z-28's produced. Those that get them aren't likely to be using them much on the street -- like you said -- Any more than you'd see a COPO on the street.

If GM wants to use the Z-28 moniker to bring people into the showrooms, they will need to make a version of it that is a little more affordable . I am talking about a Camaro with the LS7 available as a 1LE option with CAI. Now, that would bring em in! Or Z-28 stage1, stage 2. Stage one being a little more wallet and street friendly version.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:11 AM   #275
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Lambo's,Vipers,Ferrari's,Porsche GT3's ect ect at our small road course next to the dragstrip all the time.

Back to topic,I think with a good driver on stock rubber a 1.8x 60ft 11.8 at 117 in the 1/4.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:04 AM   #276
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The Z/28 is out of reach for most and it's exclusivity will mean we will not see one in the more affordable $30-40K range for years, if ever. For those with the $$ to spend $60-80k on a weekend track car they will not be taking the Z/28 to the drag strip. They will also buy a cheap 1/4 track beater, like a 2013+ GT500 as well if they care, but most will not. Those in this SES group look down at the commoners at the drag strip and do not fathom the attraction.

But for the slightly less affluent who want the high end in both venues in one car, they will buy a Nissan GT-R. Godzilla!

Imagine what the Z/28 could do with AWD. My Z/28 AWD 1/4 estimate: 11.5@117 1.6 60' out of the box.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:12 AM   #277
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Back to topic,I think with a good driver on stock rubber a 1.8x 60ft 11.8 at 117 in the 1/4.
That is a good driver!
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:22 AM   #278
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The Z/28 is out of reach for most and it's exclusivity will mean we will not see one in the more affordable $30-40K range for years, if ever. For those with the $$ to spend $60-80k on a weekend track car they will not be taking the Z/28 to the drag strip. They will also buy a cheap track beater, like a 2013+ GT500 as well if they care, but most will not. Those in this SES group look down at the commoners at the drag strip and do not fathom the attraction.

But for the slightly less affluent who want the high end in both venues in one car, they will buy a Nissan GT-R. Godzilla!

Imagine what the Z/28 could do with AWD. My Z/28 AWD 1/4 estimate: 11.5@117 1.6 60' out of the box.
Did you read Doc's post? There is a subculture of people who spend tens of thousands of dollars in NASA/SCCA circuits. Some of them race cars with far more $$ into them than what the z/28 will sticker for. There aren't many (relative) of these people, but there won't be many if this car. Guarantee a lot of those people already have their eyes on this car - that they won't have to do brake/aero mods to, and other things. You'll see
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:33 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by *007 View Post
The be all end all of Camaro is the ZL1. and it's proven. If I wanted the best Camaro out there for all around race and street enjoyment ...it wouldn't be a car that is so low it's impractical. a car that has no creature comforts, and all the rags will confirm.
Which only tells me that the Z/28 is not the best Camaro trim for you, even though it could be for me. As good as the ZL1 is, I'd much rather have a strong NA engine and fewer "features".

Not everybody "gets" the concepts of narrow-focus and "less is more", and I guess fewer still appreciate having them applied to their daily-driver.


(I'll give you 12.2's if the power and torque come in at closer to 525, maybe 530)


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Old 06-13-2013, 05:26 PM   #280
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Did you read Doc's post? There is a subculture of people who spend tens of thousands of dollars in NASA/SCCA circuits. Some of them race cars with far more $$ into them than what the z/28 will sticker for. There aren't many (relative) of these people, but there won't be many if this car. Guarantee a lot of those people already have their eyes on this car - that they won't have to do brake/aero mods to, and other things. You'll see
Sure, but that's still quite a bit of disposable income. To them respect. They are into the racing and they are not among the working poor. I think Z/28s will sell. But not too most of the people who wanted one. They were expecting Boss pricing and the Z/28 will be out of their reach. For them there is the 1LE.

Besides the hard core trackers most of the the rest of the Z/28 owners will be well heeled people who will not go near a drag strip. That's Okay, it's not what the Z/28 was built for.

But even after that rant, I am happy that GM went out and built a track halo car well deserving of the Z/28 name. Wish I could put one in my garage. Make mine red with A/C.

I see the V8 Camaro pecking order like this: Z28 > ZL1 > 1LE > SS.

I put the Z28 at the top just for bad boy attitude alone. It's not for everyone. The ZL1 is also a special car, but built more for the general well heeled muscle car buyer. Look at all the choices we have! We are all so very lucky compared to 5 years ago.

Sorry for being so off topic: Z28 12.1-2 @ 115
(I bumped the mph +1 from my earlier guess, the Internet has better air this afternoon)
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:41 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by *007 View Post
The be all end all of Camaro is the ZL1. and it's proven. If I wanted the best Camaro out there for all around race and street enjoyment ...it wouldn't be a car that is so low it's impractical. a car that has no creature comforts, and all the rags will confirm. but who is going to pay the $80k plus ADM to get one just to make it a trailer queen? be compliant Doc!
First off...the be all end all is in the eye of the beholder I think. Secondly who said it's 80K? Why not save yer belly aching until it actually is 80k or 100k. Be "compliant"???....to what...Doc has this nailed...he's compliant to the truth. If I am able to afford one (not at 100k) then I would order it from a far away dealer and have a great time driving it back...I would drive the thing all the time in the warm months...this is coming from someone who has had 2 scca club racing cars that were registered/plated. They will sell every one easy. I can confirm there are many like me who would never have considered the camaro until this car...not against camaros but nothing pulled me in...I was hoping to see a new Barracuda but that keeps slipping back and SRT will have a mountain to climb to top the z28. I STRONGLY prefer the new design...especially the new taillights.

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It WILL BEAT all the other Camaro models on the road course, including the ZL1 because that's SPECIFICALLY what it's being designed to do.
I suspect it will crush most cars that show up at a track day that cost 2-3 times more and I'm pretty sure that includes the current Zo6 and maybe ZR1…that's not an L…it's an R…on a road course.


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I highly suspect it's being set up for pro racing where it has to be street legal and produced in sufficient numbers to qualify as a production car; just like the original Z/28 needed to qualify for the SCCA requirements to compete in the Trans Am championship series….And this car is going to bring in customers that were never Camaro customers before; people who are used to spending 2 to 3 times that much and they're going to think the Z is a bargain!
BINGO…Doc nailed it. Check out how many Camaros are pro racing now. This would be great in World Challenge

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The Z/28 is out of reach for most and it's exclusivity will mean we will not see one in the more affordable $30-40K range for years, if ever. For those with the $$ to spend $60-80k on a weekend track car they will not be taking the Z/28 to the drag strip. They will also buy a cheap 1/4 track beater, like a 2013+ GT500 as well if they care, but most will not. Those in this SES group look down at the commoners at the drag strip and do not fathom the attraction.

But for the slightly less affluent who want the high end in both venues in one car, they will buy a Nissan GT-R. Godzilla!

Imagine what the Z/28 could do with AWD. My Z/28 AWD 1/4 estimate: 11.5@117 1.6 60' out of the box.
Again we do not know the price. Why can't I drive this every day?…I can easily put 3 more bose speakers in and those Recaros do not look like Kirkeys….probably comfortable and firm. I would drag it a few times just to see…never done that before and what do you mean by looking down??? The road racing community especially in scca is one of if not THE most humble bunch of people...and BTW...you can race a car within any budget in scca/nasa.

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Did you read Doc's post? There is a subculture of people who spend tens of thousands of dollars in NASA/SCCA circuits. Some of them race cars with far more $$ into them than what the z/28 will sticker for. There aren't many (relative) of these people, but there won't be many if this car. Guarantee a lot of those people already have their eyes on this car - that they won't have to do brake/aero mods to, and other things. You'll see
Nailed it…no mods needed!!!...there are many people who are lurking already with 1k deposits waiting to find out how much the dealer plans to bend them over.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:01 AM   #282
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Nailed it…no mods needed!!!...there are many people who are lurking already with 1k deposits waiting to find out how much the dealer plans to bend them over.
That is the same thing people were saying before they got their hands on the ZL1
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:18 AM   #283
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That is the same thing people were saying before they got their hands on the ZL1
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Old 06-14-2013, 05:51 PM   #284
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That is the same thing people were saying before they got their hands on the ZL1
It definitely won't need a brake upgrade
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:36 PM   #285
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...305's on the front, Holy smokes....those brakes, that gearing, that LS7...makes me sweat at night thinking what a blast it'll be wheeling this bad boy around...if, and that's a big if...I get a shot at it. And...that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:54 PM   #286
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...305's on the front, Holy smokes....those brakes, that gearing, that LS7...makes me sweat at night thinking what a blast it'll be wheeling this bad boy around...if, and that's a big if...I get a shot at it. And...that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:16 PM   #287
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To preserve the track-focused nature of the Z/28, it doesn’t have the strengthened differential and half shafts of the ZL1, and is not recommended for drag racing.
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:57 PM   #288
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To preserve the track-focused nature of the Z/28, it doesn’t have the strengthened differential and half shafts of the ZL1, and is not recommended for drag racing.
?
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:00 PM   #289
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?
http://www.*****************/2013/03...rmation-specs/

http://www.*****************/2013/03...rmation-specs/
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