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Old 06-13-2013, 08:04 AM   #276
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The Z/28 is out of reach for most and it's exclusivity will mean we will not see one in the more affordable $30-40K range for years, if ever. For those with the $$ to spend $60-80k on a weekend track car they will not be taking the Z/28 to the drag strip. They will also buy a cheap 1/4 track beater, like a 2013+ GT500 as well if they care, but most will not. Those in this SES group look down at the commoners at the drag strip and do not fathom the attraction.

But for the slightly less affluent who want the high end in both venues in one car, they will buy a Nissan GT-R. Godzilla!

Imagine what the Z/28 could do with AWD. My Z/28 AWD 1/4 estimate: 11.5@117 1.6 60' out of the box.
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:12 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by 102SS View Post
Back to topic,I think with a good driver on stock rubber a 1.8x 60ft 11.8 at 117 in the 1/4.
That is a good driver!
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:22 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
The Z/28 is out of reach for most and it's exclusivity will mean we will not see one in the more affordable $30-40K range for years, if ever. For those with the $$ to spend $60-80k on a weekend track car they will not be taking the Z/28 to the drag strip. They will also buy a cheap track beater, like a 2013+ GT500 as well if they care, but most will not. Those in this SES group look down at the commoners at the drag strip and do not fathom the attraction.

But for the slightly less affluent who want the high end in both venues in one car, they will buy a Nissan GT-R. Godzilla!

Imagine what the Z/28 could do with AWD. My Z/28 AWD 1/4 estimate: 11.5@117 1.6 60' out of the box.
Did you read Doc's post? There is a subculture of people who spend tens of thousands of dollars in NASA/SCCA circuits. Some of them race cars with far more $$ into them than what the z/28 will sticker for. There aren't many (relative) of these people, but there won't be many if this car. Guarantee a lot of those people already have their eyes on this car - that they won't have to do brake/aero mods to, and other things. You'll see
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:33 AM   #279
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The be all end all of Camaro is the ZL1. and it's proven. If I wanted the best Camaro out there for all around race and street enjoyment ...it wouldn't be a car that is so low it's impractical. a car that has no creature comforts, and all the rags will confirm.
Which only tells me that the Z/28 is not the best Camaro trim for you, even though it could be for me. As good as the ZL1 is, I'd much rather have a strong NA engine and fewer "features".

Not everybody "gets" the concepts of narrow-focus and "less is more", and I guess fewer still appreciate having them applied to their daily-driver.


(I'll give you 12.2's if the power and torque come in at closer to 525, maybe 530)


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Old 06-13-2013, 04:26 PM   #280
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Did you read Doc's post? There is a subculture of people who spend tens of thousands of dollars in NASA/SCCA circuits. Some of them race cars with far more $$ into them than what the z/28 will sticker for. There aren't many (relative) of these people, but there won't be many if this car. Guarantee a lot of those people already have their eyes on this car - that they won't have to do brake/aero mods to, and other things. You'll see
Sure, but that's still quite a bit of disposable income. To them respect. They are into the racing and they are not among the working poor. I think Z/28s will sell. But not too most of the people who wanted one. They were expecting Boss pricing and the Z/28 will be out of their reach. For them there is the 1LE.

Besides the hard core trackers most of the the rest of the Z/28 owners will be well heeled people who will not go near a drag strip. That's Okay, it's not what the Z/28 was built for.

But even after that rant, I am happy that GM went out and built a track halo car well deserving of the Z/28 name. Wish I could put one in my garage. Make mine red with A/C.

I see the V8 Camaro pecking order like this: Z28 > ZL1 > 1LE > SS.

I put the Z28 at the top just for bad boy attitude alone. It's not for everyone. The ZL1 is also a special car, but built more for the general well heeled muscle car buyer. Look at all the choices we have! We are all so very lucky compared to 5 years ago.

Sorry for being so off topic: Z28 12.1-2 @ 115
(I bumped the mph +1 from my earlier guess, the Internet has better air this afternoon)
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:41 PM   #281
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The be all end all of Camaro is the ZL1. and it's proven. If I wanted the best Camaro out there for all around race and street enjoyment ...it wouldn't be a car that is so low it's impractical. a car that has no creature comforts, and all the rags will confirm. but who is going to pay the $80k plus ADM to get one just to make it a trailer queen? be compliant Doc!
First off...the be all end all is in the eye of the beholder I think. Secondly who said it's 80K? Why not save yer belly aching until it actually is 80k or 100k. Be "compliant"???....to what...Doc has this nailed...he's compliant to the truth. If I am able to afford one (not at 100k) then I would order it from a far away dealer and have a great time driving it back...I would drive the thing all the time in the warm months...this is coming from someone who has had 2 scca club racing cars that were registered/plated. They will sell every one easy. I can confirm there are many like me who would never have considered the camaro until this car...not against camaros but nothing pulled me in...I was hoping to see a new Barracuda but that keeps slipping back and SRT will have a mountain to climb to top the z28. I STRONGLY prefer the new design...especially the new taillights.

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It WILL BEAT all the other Camaro models on the road course, including the ZL1 because that's SPECIFICALLY what it's being designed to do.
I suspect it will crush most cars that show up at a track day that cost 2-3 times more and I'm pretty sure that includes the current Zo6 and maybe ZR1…that's not an L…it's an R…on a road course.


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I highly suspect it's being set up for pro racing where it has to be street legal and produced in sufficient numbers to qualify as a production car; just like the original Z/28 needed to qualify for the SCCA requirements to compete in the Trans Am championship series….And this car is going to bring in customers that were never Camaro customers before; people who are used to spending 2 to 3 times that much and they're going to think the Z is a bargain!
BINGO…Doc nailed it. Check out how many Camaros are pro racing now. This would be great in World Challenge

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The Z/28 is out of reach for most and it's exclusivity will mean we will not see one in the more affordable $30-40K range for years, if ever. For those with the $$ to spend $60-80k on a weekend track car they will not be taking the Z/28 to the drag strip. They will also buy a cheap 1/4 track beater, like a 2013+ GT500 as well if they care, but most will not. Those in this SES group look down at the commoners at the drag strip and do not fathom the attraction.

But for the slightly less affluent who want the high end in both venues in one car, they will buy a Nissan GT-R. Godzilla!

Imagine what the Z/28 could do with AWD. My Z/28 AWD 1/4 estimate: 11.5@117 1.6 60' out of the box.
Again we do not know the price. Why can't I drive this every day?…I can easily put 3 more bose speakers in and those Recaros do not look like Kirkeys….probably comfortable and firm. I would drag it a few times just to see…never done that before and what do you mean by looking down??? The road racing community especially in scca is one of if not THE most humble bunch of people...and BTW...you can race a car within any budget in scca/nasa.

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Originally Posted by KKreme15 View Post
Did you read Doc's post? There is a subculture of people who spend tens of thousands of dollars in NASA/SCCA circuits. Some of them race cars with far more $$ into them than what the z/28 will sticker for. There aren't many (relative) of these people, but there won't be many if this car. Guarantee a lot of those people already have their eyes on this car - that they won't have to do brake/aero mods to, and other things. You'll see
Nailed it…no mods needed!!!...there are many people who are lurking already with 1k deposits waiting to find out how much the dealer plans to bend them over.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:01 PM   #282
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Nailed it…no mods needed!!!...there are many people who are lurking already with 1k deposits waiting to find out how much the dealer plans to bend them over.
That is the same thing people were saying before they got their hands on the ZL1
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:18 PM   #283
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That is the same thing people were saying before they got their hands on the ZL1
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:51 PM   #284
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That is the same thing people were saying before they got their hands on the ZL1
It definitely won't need a brake upgrade
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:36 PM   #285
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...305's on the front, Holy smokes....those brakes, that gearing, that LS7...makes me sweat at night thinking what a blast it'll be wheeling this bad boy around...if, and that's a big if...I get a shot at it. And...that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:54 PM   #286
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...305's on the front, Holy smokes....those brakes, that gearing, that LS7...makes me sweat at night thinking what a blast it'll be wheeling this bad boy around...if, and that's a big if...I get a shot at it. And...that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:16 PM   #287
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To preserve the track-focused nature of the Z/28, it doesn’t have the strengthened differential and half shafts of the ZL1, and is not recommended for drag racing.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:57 PM   #288
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To preserve the track-focused nature of the Z/28, it doesn’t have the strengthened differential and half shafts of the ZL1, and is not recommended for drag racing.
?
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:00 PM   #289
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?
http://www.*****************/2013/03...rmation-specs/

http://www.*****************/2013/03...rmation-specs/
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:55 PM   #290
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I just don't think there will be too many Z-28's produced. Those that get them aren't likely to be using them much on the street -- like you said -- Any more than you'd see a COPO on the street.

If GM wants to use the Z-28 moniker to bring people into the showrooms, they will need to make a version of it that is a little more affordable . I am talking about a Camaro with the LS7 available as a 1LE option with CAI. Now, that would bring em in! Or Z-28 stage1, stage 2. Stage one being a little more wallet and street friendly version.
If you take a 1LE and add the LS7 you've got pretty close to a $50,000 car.

Or take everything on the Z/28 and remove the ceramic brakes you've now got about a $55,000 car and that is optimistic.

Anything with the LS7 gets a huge price bump.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:17 AM   #291
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To preserve the track-focused nature of the Z/28, it doesn’t have the strengthened differential and half shafts of the ZL1, and is not recommended for drag racing.
Sven59, is this a quote from someone in the know, GM media release, or your opinion?

Man, this post is way beyond off topic. According to this idea the topic should not exist at all! One would hope the Z/28 could withstand a few hard launches.

The Z/28 front sway bar might be thicker than both the ZL1 and the beefier 1LE bar. This is good for lots of spinning at the lights, not hooking. So I would say the drive train is pretty safe. The tires are grippy I am sure, but not as tied down as drag radials.

This is why I will stick to my story of the Z/28 running low 12s and not 11s, and this with good air and track prep.

But I bet the Chevy insiders already know.

I have been two for two with the Z/28 so far:

1. I was very early calling for the then Z/28 to be called the ZL1. The ZL1 was the legendary Camaro top dog and the Z/28 while also a legend, was muddied with later versions and was never top dog. Chevy is positioning the Z/28 as the top track dog, as it should be. Probably even more focused than the original. Interesting now that the Z/28 will be the rarer car I think.

2. I knew and posted that the LS7 Z/28 was coming long before the announcement. This was very easy to figure out right here on these forums.

Will I be three for three with low 12s or ?

And I apologize for generalizing about road track focused people. I have only met a few. From what several of you have posted I stand corrected about ALL track focused enthusiasts looking down on drag racing. However just like Camaro V8 owners slamming V6 owners the impression might be common, just not universal. Kudos to those not judging! Respect. And here I am judging.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:25 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
Sven59, is this a quote from someone in the know, GM media release, or your opinion?

Man, this post is way beyond off topic. According to this idea the topic should not exist at all! One would hope the Z/28 could withstand a few hard launches.

The Z/28 front sway bar might be thicker than both the ZL1 and the beefier 1LE bar. This is good for lots of spinning at the lights, not hooking. So I would say the drive train is pretty safe. The tires are grippy I am sure, but not as tied down as drag radials.

This is why I will stick to my story of the Z/28 running low 12s and not 11s, and this with good air and track prep.

But I bet the Chevy insiders alre
I have been two for two with the Z/28 so far:

1. I was very early calling for the then Z/28 to be called the ZL1. The ZL1 was the legendary Camaro top dog and the Z/28 while also a legend, was muddied with later versions and was never top dog. Chevy is positioning the Z/28 as the top track dog, as it should be. Probably even more focused the the original. Interesting now that the Z/28 will be the rarer car I think.

2. I knew and posted that the LS7 Z/28 was coming long before the announcement. This was very easy to figure out right here on these forums.

Will I be three for three with low 12s or ?

And I apologize for generalizing about road track focused people. I have only met a few. From what several of you have posted I stand corrected about ALL track focused enthusiasts looking down on drag racing. However just like Camaro V8 owners slamming V6 owners the impression might be common, just not universal. Kudos to those not judging! Respect. And here I am judging.

I posted the link.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:32 PM   #293
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Link has too many ***'s and not enough letters/numbers.


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Old 06-28-2013, 03:45 PM   #294
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[QUOTE=Norm Peterson;6727778]Link has too many ***'s and not enough letters/numbers.


Norm[/QT


Camaro5 is doing it, when I post it it looks normal.

Did you try it, it works when I click on it.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:09 PM   #295
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Before, I only got one way to see this . . . and I was obviously connected

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This page can't be displayed
  • Make sure the web address http://www.***************** is correct.
  • Look for the page with your search engine.
  • Refresh the page in a few minutes.

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Now I have two ways to get the same message, and refreshing them does not help. Can you PM me the link address?



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Old 06-28-2013, 04:19 PM   #296
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C5 is either having site issues lately or has some new kind of filter active that's starring-out words for some reason. Put a space or - to break up the starred-out word and tell us which character to eliminate to get the proper address.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:46 PM   #297
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http://www.camaro scotty.com/2013/03/2014-camaro-and-camaro-z28-z28-z-28-information-specs/

you'll have to remove the space between camaroscotty and copy/paste into url bar but i think this is the link sven was trying to share

It's possible tran doesn't want that site being shared so i'll leave it up to the mods on whether to leave it or take it down...
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:52 PM   #298
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http://www.camaro scotty.com/2013/03/2014-camaro-and-camaro-z28-z28-z-28-information-specs/

you'll have to remove the space between camaroscotty and copy/paste into url bar but i think this is the link sven was trying to share

It's possible tran doesn't want that site being shared so i'll leave it up to the mods on whether to leave it or take it down...
Thanks,
I PM'd it to Norm. That looks correct. I am waiting for a reply from Scotty to see where he got it, it isn't referenced on his site. It probably makes sense though.
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:07 AM   #299
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Thanks,
I PM'd it to Norm. That looks correct. I am waiting for a reply from Scotty to see where he got it, it isn't referenced on his site. It probably makes sense though.
Finally managed to get there (C5 wouldn't even PM the fully spelled out address).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
One would hope the Z/28 could withstand a few hard launches.
If it's a fatigue issue rather than an outright overstress situation it'll likely withstand a few. But that's still a matter of 'when' rather than 'if'.

Side note - I hope that anybody considering running a Z/28 at SCCA's "Pro-Solo" (a real drag race start down a short straight into a conventional autocross) or at the Optima Challenge "Speed-Stop-Squared" event (similar, with a shorter autocross segment plus a stop box at the end) finds a starting line technique that's as quick as possible while being as gentle on the mechanicals as possible. But at least the starting lines won't be prepped for grip other than by however much rubber gets laid down over the course of an event.


Quote:
The Z/28 front sway bar might be thicker than both the ZL1 and the beefier 1LE bar. This is good for lots of spinning at the lights, not hooking. So I would say the drive train is pretty safe. The tires are grippy I am sure, but not as tied down as drag radials.
Front and rear bar stiffnesses do not much matter on an IRS car. There isn't much chassis roll from engine torque reaction going on that isn't taken directly back to the rear differential, so there really isn't very much left for the bars to either do or get in the way of. It is a lot different than on a stick axle car like mine where a no-front-bar/huge-rear-bar configuration can be a worthwhile setup for the strip.


Quote:
And I apologize for generalizing about road track focused people. I have only met a few. From what several of you have posted I stand corrected about ALL track focused enthusiasts looking down on drag racing. However just like Camaro V8 owners slamming V6 owners the impression might be common, just not universal. Kudos to those not judging! Respect. And here I am judging.
No offense taken.

It's probably too easy for enthusiasts of either road course or drag racing to misunderstand the other activity, at least on the surface. From the stands, drag racing looks and sounds harsh and abusive, while a quick lap on a road course or even at autocross commonly looks "too gentle" to qualify as a serious effort, let alone be any good. Many of the mods that work well for one activity are exactly the wrong things to do for the other, and some of the few in-detail mods that actually beneficial for both sports are rarely recognized as such (let alone with any understanding of why they might be).


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Old 07-10-2013, 07:06 AM   #300
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Quote:
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One would hope the Z/28 could withstand a few hard launches.
Found this in a thread discussing the ZL1 Differential & axles, figured it was worth quoting here . . .

Quote:
And stronger, 9.9 inch gear, cast iron housing, GM finally did there homework on this unit!
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=16


Given that weight was the enemy for the Z/28 to the extent that it has a different and lighter wiring harness, you shouldn't expect it to get a large iron case diff which is more rigid than what it would have been in aluminum. Even momentarily, excessive case distortion (such as under harsh dragstrip launch conditions) isn't good for long-term gear durability. Don't know anything about the Z/28's R&P size, though I'll bet it's less than 9.9".


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