Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
HeadlightArmor
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Specific Models / Packages > Camaro Convertible Forum

Camaro Convertible Forum For all Camaro Convertible specific discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-07-2013, 09:19 PM   #26
Jer4251
Camaro Addict
 
Jer4251's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1, 2008 TBSS, 1990 IROC-Z
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,162
same here. Was dissapointed when i discovered this. Fees like a fake ZL1 for more money than a real one
__________________
2013 ZL1 Vert
1990 IROC-Z Vert
2000 Z28 coupe
2014 Sierra Denali
Jer4251 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 06:48 AM   #27
Farmerbob
 
Drives: 2013 Zl1 Convertible
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 3
There is no question that the vert owners are being cheated and at this point I have not been successful trying to find out from Chevy as to why. At first I was told it was for safety. However, I pointed out that as I understand it the 5 levels of control actually make the car MORE manageable - not LESS (I can't be sure because I have not actually used one yet) - currently with the Competitive Driving Mode - I seem to have all out or something else which has still not been defined either. Perhaps a seperate thread should be set up just to address this issue and if enough owners start to complain loud enough, we will get the total product which we expected and should have. Chevy may actually have a legal issue here. My owners manual says that I have it and even a rep at Chevy customer support said the car has it and the service manager at the dealership would show me how to use it ! ! !
Farmerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2013, 05:39 PM   #28
jhnorco
 
Drives: 1967 camaro, 2013 ZL1 convertable
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Yorba Linda
Posts: 18
I was told it would have 4 of the 5 modes. I want it to be a real ZL!... I love my car but feel cheated.
jhnorco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2013, 08:54 PM   #29
Chi-One
 
Chi-One's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 DUSK Special Edition
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 354
While at a Chevy dealer today, I picked up the 2013 Camaro brochure. It specifically states PTM on ZL1 Coupe only.
__________________
1 of 56
Chi-One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 05:30 PM   #30
ssfox
 
ssfox's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS Vert
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Oshawa
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcarr View Post
Brandon,
No offense but why didn't you respond to the OP's post? If you work for Chevrolet maybe you can help him.
+1
What a joke!
Is this Brandon an actual person or a computer generated spam machine?
I've been on may different forums for many years and just cannot take it anymore reading how every once in a while this so call CSR chimes in and askes how the weather is!!!!
__________________
2011 2SS/RS VERT
ssfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 11:05 PM   #31
niterat
 
niterat's Avatar
 
Drives: ZLI IOM Convertible
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Kennewick, Washington
Posts: 151
No PTM, No belly pan, 155 mph speed limiter. Those are the things they didn't tell about. I'm not just disappointed they didn't tell me, which is a clear breach of trust, but there is not a valid reason for any of them. Really unnecessary gutless decision making on GM's part. Very disappointing.
niterat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 09:08 PM   #32
DavidW
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Vert Auto IOM
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Alberta
Posts: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by niterat View Post
No PTM, No belly pan, 155 mph speed limiter. Those are the things they didn't tell about. I'm not just disappointed they didn't tell me, which is a clear breach of trust, but there is not a valid reason for any of them. Really unnecessary gutless decision making on GM's part. Very disappointing.
month old thread, I know but I just wanted to chime in

Trading my SS in for my Z was literally a decision I made waking up one morning and seeing an ad of a dealer with a new zl1 in stock 5 hours later I had my new car. I do enjoy the drop top part of it, but there is a very good chance I would have gone for a coupe had I known the serious performance differences between the coupe and vert the only one I really knew about prior to purchase was the extra weight of the vert, next came the lack of ptm on the drive home, then earlier today seeing there was no belly pan, and finally reading this and realizing that the speed limiter is equal to the ss. It is still a fun car, but I wonder what I would be driving right now had I known all of this before, and thought out my decision. I also wonder how much different the driving experience would be.
DavidW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 09:30 AM   #33
hawk02
Convertible Three-peat
 
hawk02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Victory Red ZL1 Convertible
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post
month old thread, I know but I just wanted to chime in

Trading my SS in for my Z was literally a decision I made waking up one morning and seeing an ad of a dealer with a new zl1 in stock 5 hours later I had my new car. I do enjoy the drop top part of it, but there is a very good chance I would have gone for a coupe had I known the serious performance differences between the coupe and vert the only one I really knew about prior to purchase was the extra weight of the vert, next came the lack of ptm on the drive home, then earlier today seeing there was no belly pan, and finally reading this and realizing that the speed limiter is equal to the ss. It is still a fun car, but I wonder what I would be driving right now had I known all of this before, and thought out my decision. I also wonder how much different the driving experience would be.
Sorry, not going to get much sympathy from me. You bought a 60K+ car and didn't know the full specs until after you made the purchase. I'd say that is more a you problem than a GM problem. And look...I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I did a similar thing when I bought my first Camaro convertible. I bought an '11 2SS automatic and didn't realize until I got it home that the automatic had a different engine and exhaust package than the manual. I kicked myself in the butt for not doing the proper research prior to purchasing the car and when the opportunity came a knocking I traded it in for a '12 2SS manual. I chalked it up to one of life's big lessons and will never make that mistake again.

And for everyone complaining about the lack of performance modes, belly pan and 155 mph speed limit -- every product has design trade offs. The speed limit is there because of the canvas top. It's not certified to withstand speeds greater than 155 mph. As a result of the speed limit, the belly pan is not necessary so Chevy saved a few pounds on a car already heavier than the coupe by not including it. As for the performance modes, they're meant for the track. Most tracks I know won't let a convertible anywhere near them without some form of roll protection. So unless you're all planning to add a roll cage to your vert, you probably won't be tracking your car much. Had Chevy cut the HP by 20 or eliminated the MRC on the convertible, then I think we would all have a legitimate complaint. The design trade-offs they made on the ZL1 convertible seem pretty reasonable to me. Enjoy the car for what it is -- a wickedly fast, great looking and a hell of a lot fun to drive (especially with the top down) beast.
__________________

Last edited by hawk02; 06-01-2013 at 10:56 AM.
hawk02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 10:01 PM   #34
SCHUSS
657 RWHP + 585 Torque
 
SCHUSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 13' HPE 700 ZL1, IOM vert, M6
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Windsor, CT
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk02 View Post
Sorry, not going to get much sympathy from me. You bought a 60K+ car and didn't know the full specs until after you made the purchase. I'd say that is more a you problem than a GM problem. And look...I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I did a similar thing when I bought my first Camaro convertible. I bought an '11 2SS automatic and didn't realize until I got it home that the automatic had a different engine and exhaust package than the manual. I kicked myself in the butt for not doing the proper research prior to purchasing the car and when the opportunity came a knocking I traded it in for a '12 2SS manual. I chalked it up to one of life's big lessons and will never make that mistake again.

And for everyone complaining about the lack of performance modes, belly pan and 155 mph speed limit -- every product has design trade offs. The speed limit is there because of the canvas top. It's not certified to withstand speeds greater than 155 mph. As a result of the speed limit, the belly pan is not necessary so Chevy saved a few pounds on a car already heavier than the coupe by not including it. As for the performance modes, they're meant for the track. Most tracks I know won't let a convertible anywhere near them without some form of roll protection. So unless you're all planning to add a roll cage to your vert, you probably won't be tracking your car much. Had Chevy cut the HP by 20 or eliminated the MRC on the convertible, then I think we would all have a legitimate complaint. The design trade-offs they made on the ZL1 convertible seem pretty reasonable to me. Enjoy the car for what it is -- a wickedly fast, great looking and a hell of a lot fun to drive (especially with the top down) beast.
Well said!
SCHUSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 01:17 AM   #35
OrangeVert
"Catharine"
 
OrangeVert's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 2SS/RS LS-3 IOM/IO vert
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 1,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk02 View Post
Sorry, not going to get much sympathy from me. You bought a 60K+ car and didn't know the full specs until after you made the purchase. I'd say that is more a you problem than a GM problem. And look...I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I did a similar thing when I bought my first Camaro convertible. I bought an '11 2SS automatic and didn't realize until I got it home that the automatic had a different engine and exhaust package than the manual. I kicked myself in the butt for not doing the proper research prior to purchasing the car and when the opportunity came a knocking I traded it in for a '12 2SS manual. I chalked it up to one of life's big lessons and will never make that mistake again.

And for everyone complaining about the lack of performance modes, belly pan and 155 mph speed limit -- every product has design trade offs. The speed limit is there because of the canvas top. It's not certified to withstand speeds greater than 155 mph. As a result of the speed limit, the belly pan is not necessary so Chevy saved a few pounds on a car already heavier than the coupe by not including it. As for the performance modes, they're meant for the track. Most tracks I know won't let a convertible anywhere near them without some form of roll protection. So unless you're all planning to add a roll cage to your vert, you probably won't be tracking your car much. Had Chevy cut the HP by 20 or eliminated the MRC on the convertible, then I think we would all have a legitimate complaint. The design trade-offs they made on the ZL1 convertible seem pretty reasonable to me. Enjoy the car for what it is -- a wickedly fast, great looking and a hell of a lot fun to drive (especially with the top down) beast.
Makes sense to me, thanks for explaining!
__________________
OrangeVert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 01:39 AM   #36
niterat
 
niterat's Avatar
 
Drives: ZLI IOM Convertible
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Kennewick, Washington
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk02 View Post
Sorry, not going to get much sympathy from me. You bought a 60K+ car and didn't know the full specs until after you made the purchase. I'd say that is more a you problem than a GM problem. And look...I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I did a similar thing when I bought my first Camaro convertible. I bought an '11 2SS automatic and didn't realize until I got it home that the automatic had a different engine and exhaust package than the manual. I kicked myself in the butt for not doing the proper research prior to purchasing the car and when the opportunity came a knocking I traded it in for a '12 2SS manual. I chalked it up to one of life's big lessons and will never make that mistake again.

And for everyone complaining about the lack of performance modes, belly pan and 155 mph speed limit -- every product has design trade offs. The speed limit is there because of the canvas top. It's not certified to withstand speeds greater than 155 mph. As a result of the speed limit, the belly pan is not necessary so Chevy saved a few pounds on a car already heavier than the coupe by not including it. As for the performance modes, they're meant for the track. Most tracks I know won't let a convertible anywhere near them without some form of roll protection. So unless you're all planning to add a roll cage to your vert, you probably won't be tracking your car much. Had Chevy cut the HP by 20 or eliminated the MRC on the convertible, then I think we would all have a legitimate complaint. The design trade-offs they made on the ZL1 convertible seem pretty reasonable to me. Enjoy the car for what it is -- a wickedly fast, great looking and a hell of a lot fun to drive (especially with the top down) beast.
I have to completely disagree on every point. When I bought my 60k car, no where would you find these disclosures about the differences between the convertible and the coupe aside from the weight. The dealer didn't know, I asked. Even the owners manual was silent and got revised long after my sale. I shouldn't have to be a detective or a lawyer about this. GM was not upfront - period. As for all the excuses why they did what they did, it is all about money, their money. Not certified above 155mph? Why not? Some scientific limit for ragtops at that speed? Of course not. You can engineer, and certify anything - just a matter of cost. They didn't bother because they wanted to cut cost, increase profit. The belly pan? it was in the way of the added stiffeners, that's why it was eliminated. As I look at it, a few simple mods to the pan and it will fit right in. Again, GM didn't want to bother between cost and deadlines. Easier to just eliminate it. Bottom line is GM was far from up front and I think they should be called out for rather than protected and excused. If you were less than forthcoming at your job would it be tolerated? Why do make excuses for GM? Why should they be accountable like the rest of us? Just because I love my car and have all kinds of Chevy stuff doesn't mean I pretend they never do wrong. I don't need your sympathy, but I also don't need your smug excuse making and blaming me for GM's poor handling. Had they been forthright about the differences then I would agree that I have nothing to complain about. The fact that they weren't is the whole reason for this thread, and my complaint.
niterat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 06:18 AM   #37
el ess A
formerly "el ess X"
 
el ess A's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 & 2013 Camaros
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aiken, SC
Posts: 3,308
Fine. Then PROVE it to them, not us.

Ever hear the (para)phrase "GM reserves the right to add/modify/delete options/features/equipment/models, etc. at any time without notice."?

FAT CHANCE you'd get GM over a barrel on what they offer as a product or options/equipment on certain cars at any time. Do you get to choose when Cheerios comes out with a "new and improved" cheerio? No. Or if McDonald's decides to drop their Angus (anus) burgers from the menu? No.

Even with new cars, buyer beware. You likely had EVERY chance to go through the entire car before you signed the papers and if you didn't take that opportunity or settle for the idiot dealer's incompetence to get answers to your questions, it's on you (if not, only then you retain the right to b*tch).

It does sound like something's amiss with your suspension controls.

Caveat emptor applies to new cars, too. Sorry. Not feeling my sympathy meter move much.
__________________
2010/2013 Camaro

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=26108&dateline=139490  3951
el ess A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 11:43 AM   #38
DavidW
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Vert Auto IOM
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Alberta
Posts: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk02 View Post
Sorry, not going to get much sympathy from me. You bought a 60K+ car and didn't know the full specs until after you made the purchase. I'd say that is more a you problem than a GM problem. And look...I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I did a similar thing when I bought my first Camaro convertible. I bought an '11 2SS automatic and didn't realize until I got it home that the automatic had a different engine and exhaust package than the manual. I kicked myself in the butt for not doing the proper research prior to purchasing the car and when the opportunity came a knocking I traded it in for a '12 2SS manual. I chalked it up to one of life's big lessons and will never make that mistake again.

And for everyone complaining about the lack of performance modes, belly pan and 155 mph speed limit -- every product has design trade offs. The speed limit is there because of the canvas top. It's not certified to withstand speeds greater than 155 mph. As a result of the speed limit, the belly pan is not necessary so Chevy saved a few pounds on a car already heavier than the coupe by not including it. As for the performance modes, they're meant for the track. Most tracks I know won't let a convertible anywhere near them without some form of roll protection. So unless you're all planning to add a roll cage to your vert, you probably won't be tracking your car much. Had Chevy cut the HP by 20 or eliminated the MRC on the convertible, then I think we would all have a legitimate complaint. The design trade-offs they made on the ZL1 convertible seem pretty reasonable to me. Enjoy the car for what it is -- a wickedly fast, great looking and a hell of a lot fun to drive (especially with the top down) beast.
I wasn't looking for sympathy, but also the changes made between the zl1 vert and coupe are a lot harder to find than the l99 and ls3. The power numbers and AFM are publicized, then you have the zl1 that had all these high performance features posted online in various locations by gm, and then they announce the convertible but do not mention the things that are removed from it. Belly pan - no excuse not to mention it was one of the parts that helped the coupe generate down force, ptm - no excuse, I can see why and respect the speed limiter, but at the same time the vette drop tops dont have one I believe, yes the all the information was available throughout this forum but it was not nearly as advertised as the l99 vs ls3 difference
DavidW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 12:09 PM   #39
hawk02
Convertible Three-peat
 
hawk02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Victory Red ZL1 Convertible
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by niterat View Post
I have to completely disagree on every point. When I bought my 60k car, no where would you find these disclosures about the differences between the convertible and the coupe aside from the weight. The dealer didn't know, I asked. Even the owners manual was silent and got revised long after my sale. I shouldn't have to be a detective or a lawyer about this. GM was not upfront - period. As for all the excuses why they did what they did, it is all about money, their money. Not certified above 155mph? Why not? Some scientific limit for ragtops at that speed? Of course not. You can engineer, and certify anything - just a matter of cost. They didn't bother because they wanted to cut cost, increase profit. The belly pan? it was in the way of the added stiffeners, that's why it was eliminated. As I look at it, a few simple mods to the pan and it will fit right in. Again, GM didn't want to bother between cost and deadlines. Easier to just eliminate it. Bottom line is GM was far from up front and I think they should be called out for rather than protected and excused. If you were less than forthcoming at your job would it be tolerated? Why do make excuses for GM? Why should they be accountable like the rest of us? Just because I love my car and have all kinds of Chevy stuff doesn't mean I pretend they never do wrong. I don't need your sympathy, but I also don't need your smug excuse making and blaming me for GM's poor handling. Had they been forthright about the differences then I would agree that I have nothing to complain about. The fact that they weren't is the whole reason for this thread, and my complaint.
First off, I was by no means making excuses for GM. As I said in my post, every product has design trade-offs. And yes, money is a major influence in those trades offs in conjuction with the product's target market. Companies try to maximize profit margins whenever possible. It's considered good business.

The trade offs GM made by not including the belly pan, PTM modes and limiting the top speed to 155 seem reasonable to me based on cost and market the convertible is targeted to. Ford has made similar trade offs with the Cobra GT convertible. It too is limited to 155 mph and there is no track pack option available for it. So it's just not GM. As a consumer, why would I want to pay for something that provides little or no benefit and/or I'll never use. That's how I look at these options.

As far as GM should have been more up front with the differences, all I can say is "Caveat Emptor". A lot of companies don't disclose every single difference between their product lines. It certainly would be nice if they did, but they don't so it's up to the consumer to do the research. I bought my convertible in January and between spending entirely too much time on this site, other web sites, YouTube videos and product literature, I knew exactly what the differences were between the coupe and convertible. The info was available just not in a nice side by side comparison.

As I said before, enjoy the car for what it is. We all have purchased the most powerful Camaro convertible GM has ever produced.
__________________
hawk02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 01:49 PM   #40
agent2594
 
Drives: '13 ZL1 Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Warren, MI
Posts: 15
DISCLAIMER: I am an employee of General Motors, but I do NOT represent General Motors in any capacity. Any statements I make in this post (and elsewhere on this forum) are mine alone and represent only my stance or opinion, not that of General Motors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk02 View Post
As far as GM should have been more up front with the differences, all I can say is "Caveat Emptor". A lot of companies don't disclose every single difference between their product lines. It certainly would be nice if they did, but they don't so it's up to the consumer to do the research.
How did you find out that the convertibles have no belly pan? I just discovered this on my ZL1 yesterday, but I couldn't find any other discussion about it on the forums. It certainly would be nice if GM had published these differences somewhere so that our research would be easier.

With that said, I agree with your overall position. My purchase was semi-impulsive, like what you described with your first convertible. I should have done more research before buying, regardless of the difficulty of the research, although it probably wouldn't have changed my decision (once I saw the convertible in the showroom, I couldn't resist!).

I've learned my lesson, but I'm not terribly upset. I may have a speed limiter and no PTM, but I'm still enjoying it.
__________________


DISCLAIMER: I am an employee of General Motors. Any views and/or opinions I express on this website are solely my own.
agent2594 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 05:13 PM   #41
Howdie_
 
Howdie_'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Vert, 1999 Trans Am Vert
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Beaumont, Alberta
Posts: 33
C'mon guys, are you kidding me? You would have bought the coupe if you knew this??? This is a drop top, which all have inherent compromises in rigidity. A convertible is not a track car, around here, they are not allowed on them, I checked. The need to go 185 mph, a race mode in the PTM and a belly pan, are TRACK needs. I knew going in, if I wanted to track this car (road course or drag strip) I needed a coupe. To demonstrate, go outside, put the top down and open both doors. Then you will see how comparatively little is holding the front of the car to the back, the floor. While I have not been able to drive my new car very fast yet, I know in my 99 Trans Am WS6, the buffeting was very uncomfortable, top up or down at 130 mph. As has been stated, this is the most powerful GM convertible ever! I love it...
But, they are holding their value and relatively hard to find, sell it for the coupe....
Howdie_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2013, 10:54 AM   #42
hawk02
Convertible Three-peat
 
hawk02's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Victory Red ZL1 Convertible
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by agent2594 View Post
How did you find out that the convertibles have no belly pan? I just discovered this on my ZL1 yesterday, but I couldn't find any other discussion about it on the forums.
This thread.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6038196
__________________
hawk02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2013, 01:37 PM   #43
ECCamaro
High Desert Camaro Man
 
ECCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: White Convertible-Tan Top 2SS V8
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Bernadino County, California
Posts: 386
It seems to me that there are at least two situations:

1) Those people who did not research and bought unknowingly
2) Those people who did research and did not find the information
because it was either not available or they didn't know where to look.

For the first situation, people did not do their due dillegence so if they have something that is not what they want they are responsible.

For the second situation, Chevy is responsible. They should have made sure the information was well known by dealers and the public, especially as the sale is being made. Why would they not do this (Assuming this is what happened)? Prior to purchasing my SS I knew very well the differences between the manual and the automatic. Not only did it seem to be publizied, the dealer/salesman even discussed it with me to make sure I knew how they were different. If you think about it, it benefits the company to make sure people know. The company does not need bad publicity.

Bottom line for me is that if people don't know about the differences between the two verions one has to ask why? As for the consumer, we can't get away from being responsible to do our research. However, for the company, they have to make sure that they have communicated accurately about their product. A question for Chevrolet is do they think that they have adquately done that given that some people say they tried/thought they had all the information.
ECCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2013, 01:54 PM   #44
Oldag
 
Drives: 2013 2SS Convertible, LS3
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 361
How disappointing that by buying the vert I am limited to only 155 mph...
Oldag is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.