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Old 06-21-2013, 09:35 AM   #5288
Dangeruss
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Headed to the gun show this weekend...feeling the need for a new weapon.
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Old 06-21-2013, 01:55 PM   #5289
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I have been biting my lip on this but for those of you that purchased an AR for home defense INSIDE THE HOME is not an intelligent move. First - caliber has no kinetic energy - no stopping power. Their is better kinetic energy from a 9 over the 556, even with frang ammo. Second - unless you know exactly what is behind your target it is going right thru the person and into the next room, neighbor's house, etc. You will need multiple shots for each intruder with a 556 or a clean head shot which is not easy with a moving target. I hope this helps and am not wanting to offend anyone but it is just nonsense that someone says they are going to use an AR platform inside a home.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:25 PM   #5290
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Originally Posted by AZ Charlie View Post
I have been biting my lip on this but for those of you that purchased an AR for home defense INSIDE THE HOME is not an intelligent move. First - caliber has no kinetic energy - no stopping power. Their is better kinetic energy from a 9 over the 556, even with frang ammo. Second - unless you know exactly what is behind your target it is going right thru the person and into the next room, neighbor's house, etc. You will need multiple shots for each intruder with a 556 or a clean head shot which is not easy with a moving target. I hope this helps and am not wanting to offend anyone but it is just nonsense that someone says they are going to use an AR platform inside a home.
I would use this inside the home.
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Old 06-21-2013, 05:06 PM   #5291
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Originally Posted by AZ Charlie View Post
I have been biting my lip on this but for those of you that purchased an AR for home defense INSIDE THE HOME is not an intelligent move. First - caliber has no kinetic energy - no stopping power. Their is better kinetic energy from a 9 over the 556, even with frang ammo. Second - unless you know exactly what is behind your target it is going right thru the person and into the next room, neighbor's house, etc. You will need multiple shots for each intruder with a 556 or a clean head shot which is not easy with a moving target. I hope this helps and am not wanting to offend anyone but it is just nonsense that someone says they are going to use an AR platform inside a home.
No kinetic energy? 5.56 fired at the close ranges associated with HD would be devastating on soft tissues. The bullet would tumble and fragment inside the body. The temporary cavity created would be much larger than that of a 9mm hollow point. The issue with 5.56 is at extended ranges where the velocity drops off below the point where it will tumble and fragment.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:41 PM   #5292
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No kinetic energy? 5.56 fired at the close ranges associated with HD would be devastating on soft tissues. The bullet would tumble and fragment inside the body. The temporary cavity created would be much larger than that of a 9mm hollow point. The issue with 5.56 is at extended ranges where the velocity drops off below the point where it will tumble and fragment.
That's why home defense should incorporate nothing less than a 30-06 and a 16" bayonet



All kidding aside, the idea of shooting through a wall or three and injuring or killing an innocent is a sobering thought. I'd prefer to rely on a loyal and powerful dog for protection in my home. Barring that my choice would be my P226 in 9mm as opposed to any rifle I have, as it is very reliable and very accurate and very easy to shoot.

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A hand won't block much against those that break into your house with a crowbar or baseball bat.
On the other hand, pun intended, a free hand can more easily open a door, etc. I would have no illusions about becoming a ninja and parrying crowbar blows with my rifle while deftly maneuvering to bring it into play. If I see him and I have a pistol, I'm not allowing that to happen anyway. If an intruder has the drop on me, if he surprises me and I don't see him, I'm done no matter what. Instead I'd really like the dog to be chewing off his arms
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:15 PM   #5293
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I would use this inside the home.
*drool*

I know you've posted it before but I don't get tired of looking at it!
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:28 PM   #5294
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AR inside the home, non-AR... Can anyone point to anything that suggests an AR to be potentially more dangerous to your surroundings than a handgun? Because everything I read says otherwise. The only time I ever read about an AR being a worse choice for home defense is from personal opinions and Joe Biden's comrades.

I'm assuming everyone has seen this... probably a dozen times, and probably even somewhere in this thread?

http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Sel..._FAQ/index.htm

I guess what I'm asking, Charlie and the others who think an AR is a bad idea in the home... do you have any source that says otherwise? Not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers either, but I've never read it.

As far as the kinetic energy debate...

55gr bullet (3.6 grams-ish or .0036 kg)
Muzzle velocity about 3200 fps (about 975 meters/sec)

147gr (9.5 grams-ish or .0095 kg)
Muzzle velocity is about 1050 fps (320 m/s)

230gr bullet (15 grams-ish or .015 kg)
about 850 fps (about 260 m/s)

Kinetic energy is 1/2 mv2

So

1700 joules, 486 joules and 507 joules respectively.

Or if you would prefer, 1253 ft/lb 359 ft/lb and 373 ft/lb respectively.

In no way does any .223 have no kinetic energy, especially when compared to a handgun round. However, kinetic energy and penetration are not proportional, otherwise you'd be looking at some odd 48" ballistic gel penetration for .223, which is not the case at all. And I say 48" because the gel for those handgun rounds seems to be 12-14".

Anyway, nobody can argue with the math. But if you want to argue (if one wants to cal it that... discussing is just fine) interior wall penetration and wound penetration afterwards, I'd like to see a source. Again, not trying to be abrasive, but I've never read any different.

And Russ. Gimme your gun. I want one.
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:16 AM   #5295
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Here it is in slow motion.

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Old 06-22-2013, 07:23 AM   #5296
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AR inside the home, non-AR... Can anyone point to anything that suggests an AR to be potentially more dangerous to your surroundings than a handgun? Because everything I read says otherwise. The only time I ever read about an AR being a worse choice for home defense is from personal opinions and Joe Biden's comrades.
I don't know about that, but I do know that one of the attractions of the AR is it's choice of multiple calibers. Assuming that the caliber is .223 and then making a statement that this is what an 'AR' is, is like saying all blue cars have V6 engines. I have a friend with an AR in .458. Mine is in 5.56. Obviously different animals.

But I do know that I disagree strongly with suggesting that a gun enthusiast who has a differing opinion than yours is a 'Joe Biden Comrade'. That would be the same thing as me replying to you with "you're a wannabe Operator". How does that advance the discussion?
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Old 06-22-2013, 02:14 PM   #5297
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Old 06-22-2013, 02:27 PM   #5298
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But I do know that I disagree strongly with suggesting that a gun enthusiast who has a differing opinion than yours is a 'Joe Biden Comrade'. That would be the same thing as me replying to you with "you're a wannabe Operator". How does that advance the discussion?
The point wasn't the comment. The point was they don't give any reference to support any of their claims. Like... a double barrel shotgun is better? I'm not calling anybody anything. I'm just saying that's the only times I've ever heard that argument about an AR being a poor home defense weapon. Always opinions, but nothing to back up the opinions.

I always love to learn, and reserve the right to alter my opinion when presented with new evidence. That's what I'm looking for, and have not ever been presented with any evidence that really supports an AR being a poor home defense weapon. In fact, I always read the contrary... with the one generally accepted point that there can be a disadvantage going through your house with a long gun... of any kind. And even that... I'm not convinced.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:00 AM   #5299
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*drool*

I know you've posted it before but I don't get tired of looking at it!
Thanks...definitely one of my favorites. How can you go wrong with 16 rounds of .45?
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Old 06-23-2013, 07:03 PM   #5300
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My .02 is from experience and insight from others with first hand experience. Also on a civilian side with neighbors I just do not understand that mentality that would tell you that an AR would be a good firearm to choose when you do not know what is beyond your target. I am not here to argue or prove my point...just my .02

The FNX 45 is a great sidearm...just add a light and you are good to go!
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Old 06-23-2013, 07:16 PM   #5301
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glock 21, .45 cal, my weapon of choice
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:38 PM   #5302
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These are my daily carry guns that i switch betweenName:  uploadfromtaptalk1372034235792.jpg
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:01 AM   #5303
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My thoughts are, if someone is breaking into my house and I have the choice between grabbing my shotgun, my carbine, or my pistol, I'll grab the pistol every time.

This choice has nothing to do with penetration of walls or stopping power, but everything to do with how maneuverable the firearm is. If I have to walk into a hallway and do a 180° sweep (look both left and right quickly) I need much less space than I do with a shotgun or carbine.

Plus, when coming up on a corner, the bad guy doesn't have the potential of seeing 12" of barrel and firearm prior to seeing me.

You can purchase all kinds of different home defense rounds for pistols that should either break up or have significant drop in kinetic energy after hitting a wall.

While I agree that it's your job to know what's behind the target you're aiming at, that's hardly the thing you're going to be worried about when that situation presents itself. You will be focused on one thing and one thing only: the intruder. And in that situation, you should have in your hands the weapon that you are most familiar with, regardless of whether it's a pistol, a shotgun, a carbine, a crossbow, a bow and arrow, a rock, a knife, or a rolling pin, etcetera. Whatever you're handy with, it's your job to know that the ammo you have for home defense is designed specifically for home defense. Beyond that, you're just making a blind guess at how the circumstances will turn out.

I keep two full magazines of home defense ammo for each firearm I have at the ready in case they're needed. The only thing the FMJ ammo does is sit in the box until it gets taken to the range for practice. That's the only thing that would ever worry me about any neighbors that exercise their 2nd amendment right.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:43 AM   #5304
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Very good CamaroSkooter - true for peeling corners, etc. Excellent ammo options for home defense for the pistol.
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