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Old 06-21-2013, 03:21 PM   #1
jjjaroscak
 
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Subframe bushing inserts help!

I'm installing the Pedders subframe bushing inserts and can't even get started. What is the torque value of the sub-frame bushing bolts? I can't even get those suckers off!
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Old 06-21-2013, 04:25 PM   #2
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According to the Pfadt instructions, they are torqued to 100 ft-lbs. Get a big 1/2" breaker bar and the right size socket, and they'll come loose!
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Old 06-21-2013, 04:32 PM   #3
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Use a breaker bar or a good impact. I had no issues with the actual bolt. Biggest issue was getting the hat off the sub-frame.
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Old 06-21-2013, 04:41 PM   #4
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I have a cheap impact and they came off no problem. A breaker should work also.

I dropped the entire cradle which was easy and made access much better. However, I read somewhere where somebody lowered the carrier and then placed 4 sockets between the bushes and car and then jacked the carrier up letting the weight of the car do the work and press them out.

good luck fun stuff
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Old 06-21-2013, 05:37 PM   #5
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Ah yes, works much better with a longer torque wrench capable of 250 ft/lb. Hopefully this was the only hurdle I'll run into. Thanks for the replies.
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Old 06-21-2013, 07:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
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I have a cheap impact and they came off no problem. A breaker should work also.

I dropped the entire cradle which was easy and made access much better. However, I read somewhere where somebody lowered the carrier and then placed 4 sockets between the bushes and car and then jacked the carrier up letting the weight of the car do the work and press them out.

good luck fun stuff
Haddad Motorsports did drop the cradle on my ZL1 when I watched them install mine last month. Made a huge difference.
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:30 PM   #7
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Does it matter if I re-torque the bolts before or after dropping the car back down?
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:46 PM   #8
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Does it matter if I re-torque the bolts before or after dropping the car back down?
Torque the bolts after you time the bushings.
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:10 PM   #9
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use a pipe stick it over the ratchet or breaker bar to break the torque or a big combo wrench to gain extra leverage on your wrench !!!! Easy pipe to use is your pipe jack from your car jack is what I use all the time for breaking torque on hard to break bolts.
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:14 PM   #10
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Does it matter if I re-torque the bolts before or after dropping the car back down?
Are you talking about the subframe bolts? I did mine before I put the car on the ground.

Tip: put a little blue locktite on the bolts and get try to torque them to around 80# and you should be good.
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:51 PM   #11
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Timed, locktited, and torqued! Thanks for the help everyone! That was definitely the most challenging mod I've done so far. Getting those metal plates off the bottom of the front bushings SUCKED!

Now to do the radius rod inserts on Sunday, get an alignment during the week, then hit the track next Saturday.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:58 PM   #12
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Did you do it on jack stands? Got any advice? What are your impressions?

I'm planning on doing this mod soon
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Old 06-22-2013, 08:40 AM   #13
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Timed, locktited, and torqued! Thanks for the help everyone! That was definitely the most challenging mod I've done so far. Getting those metal plates off the bottom of the front bushings SUCKED!
Now to do the radius rod inserts on Sunday, get an alignment during the week, then hit the track next Saturday.
What method did you use to get the metal plates off?


The radius rod inserts are super easy.
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Old 06-22-2013, 08:42 AM   #14
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I'll throw this thread out there just in case someone hasn't seen it yet. It might help someone with the install.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...hlight=pedders
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:35 PM   #15
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Did you do it on jack stands? Got any advice? What are your impressions?

I'm planning on doing this mod soon
Yes I use jack stands. Make sure you have the right tools and I strongly suggest another pair of hands. So far it feels great, we'll see how it performs at the track this weekend.
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:39 PM   #16
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What method did you use to get the metal plates off?
Took the wheels off, then I use a large screw driver from under the car to pry at the plate, then a friend used a crowbar to pry from the wheel well and used a hammer for the extra force/vibrations on the crowbar.

Screw driver slipped and I ended up punching the car at almost full power a couple times.

Quote:
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The radius rod inserts are super easy.
Took some effort to get the bolts started, then took a lot of effort to get the driver side bolt in and out because of the washer fluid bottle.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:55 PM   #17
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I'll throw this thread out there just in case someone hasn't seen it yet. It might help someone with the install.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...hlight=pedders
Good info Caverman!

Quote:
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Yes I use jack stands. Make sure you have the right tools and I strongly suggest another pair of hands. So far it feels great, we'll see how it performs at the track this weekend.
Getting ready to do this mod soon also!
Did you take out the axle back exhaust too? Seems like it would have to come out! What all did you take loose to lower the cradle? Thanks for the info!
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:28 AM   #18
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"took a lot of effort to get the driver side bolt in and out because of the washer fluid bottle."

Yes it is kind of a pain, but if you move the wheel or arm back and forth a bit it helps. I used a visegrip to turn the bolt out (the last little bit) and did the same to get it started in again.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:13 AM   #19
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The cradle has 4 bolts holding it in. For some reason 23mm socket is what I remember. I also left my exhaust on which is why id did the side to side method of installing the bushing inserts.

For me, I found the two hammer solution the easiest to get the plates off. About 3 good blows of the hammer and they popped off. Just keep an eye out on where it goes flying to because you might loose it if not.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:56 PM   #20
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This install is fairly simple on a lift. Never done it on the ground but i can't see it being too bad.

The bolts will typically come off with a good impact gun. We have had some east coast cars require me to break out my large breaker bar. You will get several large pops out of it, but keep going, these are torque to yield bolts and the factory uses a lot of locktight on them.

Hopefully you've remembered to support the cradle

We've found the easiest way to get the plates off is with a well placed pry bar, you wanna go inside the whole and catch the edge with the pry bar, and then go nuts. It will take more force than you think, but the only thing you can really hurt is yourself, so be careful, when they let go they come out with a vengeance.

When doing the inserts you typically do not need to remove the exhaust, just the back hangers, and that should give you enough room to slide the inserts in.

When your ready to put everything back together, make sure you clean the bolts thoroughly and the bolts holes as best you can. Reapply blue locktight, and set your impact gun to max. Please star patern the cradle back in, or you might run into problems.

There is no specific torque spec on these, since its a torque to yield sequence. But no less than 100ft/lbs and no more than 200ft/lbs. I know this is a large range, but there isn't much rocket science to these, and your using stretchy bolts. We have never had a problem or failure with this method, and we've done hundreds of cars with this method.
Camaro's, G8's and GTO's all virtually the same setup.

Please feel free to give us a call with any questions.

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:21 PM   #21
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Good info Mike.
If I'm just installing the rear sub-frame inserts is there any need for an alignment?
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:22 PM   #22
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This might be more info than you need for now but you'll get the picture

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289431
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:25 PM   #23
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Good info Mike.
If I'm just installing the rear sub-frame inserts is there any need for an alignment?
The rear subframe is located by using some pins in the rear so technically no but it wouldn't hurt
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:31 PM   #24
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Did you take out the axle back exhaust too? Seems like it would have to come out! What all did you take loose to lower the cradle? Thanks for the info!
I have a cat back exhaust and was just barely able to get the inserts in without messing with it but you might have to lower it to get enough space.

It is held up with four 24mm bolts that take a good amount of elbow grease to get out. If you don't have air tools like me, make sure you have a breaker bar or nice long torque wrench so you can get some good leverage on the bolts.

Quote:
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The cradle has 4 bolts holding it in. For some reason 23mm socket is what I remember.
They were 24mm, had to make a Home Depot run since I only have a pretty standard socket set.

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"took a lot of effort to get the driver side bolt in and out because of the washer fluid bottle."

Yes it is kind of a pain, but if you move the wheel or arm back and forth a bit it helps. I used a visegrip to turn the bolt out (the last little bit) and did the same to get it started in again.
This is exactly the method I ended up having to use. Visegrip to do some screwing and a friend to turn the wheel back and forth to help find the magic spot to get the screw to slip in.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:14 PM   #25
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Good info Mike.
If I'm just installing the rear sub-frame inserts is there any need for an alignment?
You don't need to get aligned after doing this. (Unless your suuuper anul )
The worst case scenario in alignment change would be in-perceivable. And would equate to fractions of a degree.
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