My Dirty, Dirty Intake (Pic Heavy)

[911medic]

One more note on the Seafoam treatment process. Intensifi mentioned to me that the dealer intake chemical cleaning apparatus hooked up to the PCV intake port on the IM.

I tried to use this port to spray some Seafoam into the IM after the manual cleaning/reassembly, but the engine does not like the unrestricted airflow that came in through that port without the PCV line connected. It chugged and died almost instantly when the PCV line was removed, and would hardly restart, so the attempt was aborted.

Obviously the dealer system seals the opening better and only allows an appropriate amount of air to enter with the chemical.

[intensifi]

Great write up! Thanks for all the effort!

The difference between yours with 28K (Before Catch Can) miles and mine with 14K (BCC) miles, really shows the need for getting the catch can on early.

The next time I have my manifold off, I'm going to try throttle body cleaner on the closed valves.

I'll also check with the master tech at Boardwalk Chevrolet on the difference between Seafoam and BG 44K. As I recall he felt BG 44K cleaned better.

[CyberPunk223]

you all are nuts,,

don't get me wrong, I put a RX on mine at 7,000 miles and did a aerosol seafoam treatment into the TB, for $150 what the hell,

But lets go back to the drawing board here,, now what harm does having deposits on your valves do?? As long as the valve seats keep themselves clean what's the difference?

It will be interesting to see if people without the catch cans have problems down the road... What are your predictions?

[intensifi]

Carbon builds up on valves.

Eventually it will break loose, fall off into the cylinders, then score the cylinder walls and damage the rings.

[911medic]

Originally Posted by CyberPunk223

you all are nuts,,

don't get me wrong, I put a RX on mine at 7,000 miles and did a aerosol seafoam treatment into the TB, for $150 what the hell,

But lets go back to the drawing board here,, now what harm does having deposits on your valves do?? As long as the valve seats keep themselves clean what's the difference?

It will be interesting to see if people without the catch cans have problems down the road... What are your predictions?

So I'm nuts for documenting the same process you used (catch can, Seafoam treatment) and taking it a step further and actually physically cleaning the valves?

And you feel the shape of the valve surface itself has no effect on the flow into the cylinder, so crusty, rough carbon buildup will have no effect, right?

That's why BMW came up with the walnut shell blaster for cleaning the valves on their direct injection engines, right? Just for fun.

Sorry if I'm a little sensitive, but your post makes no sense. You call me crazy, then say you've done 2/3 of what I've done, then ask my predictions?

That's crazy.

Here's an article from a couple of years ago: http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-...-adopters.html

In it you'll find a description of one owner's decreasing horsepower as his valves collected carbon deposits.

And here's a quote from that article that should show you the potential "harm" that auto manufacturers themselves are concerned about:

"A U.S. patent application filed in 2002 by Volkswagen AG explains the DI-engine carbon-deposit dilemma this way: 'Gasoline engines with direct injection of the fuel into the combustion chamber…suffer especially from the problem of the formation of carbon deposits…especially in the neck region of the intake valves.'

The document describes these deposits as a sticky coating of oil and fuel constituents that, once formed, serves as a base for further deposits, creating 'a circular process, by which the coating thickness of the carbon deposits continuously increases.' Excessive carbon deposits 'have extremely negative effects,' the patent application concludes, citing significant performance losses, sporadic ignition failures and, potentially, holes burned in the structure of the catalytic converter (should bits of carbon break from the valves and pass though the combustion chamber)."

Hmm. Yeah, I'm crazy.

[911medic]

Originally Posted by intensifi

Great write up! Thanks for all the effort!

The difference between yours with 28K (Before Catch Can) miles and mine with 14K (BCC) miles, really shows the need for getting the catch can on early.

The next time I have my manifold off, I'm going to try throttle body cleaner on the closed valves.

I'll also check with the master tech at Boardwalk Chevrolet on the difference between Seafoam and BG 44K. As I recall he felt BG 44K cleaned better.

Yeah, I'm sure there are more potent/effective dissolvers of the carbon deposits than Seafoam. I bet BG 44K is one of them. But I'd probably buy some fogging oil to use in the cylinders before startup after using them.

I was close to using the intake/carb cleaner that I bought. It says right on the can that it quickly dissolves carbon deposits. I chickened out for fear of cylinder wash, even though we only used higher quantities of cleaner in those cylinders we confirmed were closed. But we had to spray some in to check, and one of them looked closed but did not hold fluid until we turned the crank a bit. Which of course means the cleaner went right into the cylinder.

[ChadG]

Originally Posted by 911medic

Yeah, I'm sure there are more potent/effective dissolvers of the carbon deposits than Seafoam. I bet BG 44K is one of them. But I'd probably buy some fogging oil to use in the cylinders before startup after using them.

I was close to using the intake/carb cleaner that I bought. It says right on the can that it quickly dissolves carbon deposits. I chickened out for fear of cylinder wash, even though we only used higher quantities of cleaner in those cylinders we confirmed were closed. But we had to spray some in to check, and one of them looked closed but did not hold fluid until we turned the crank a bit. Which of course means the cleaner went right into the cylinder.

Maybe you can test open/closed with Seafoam and once you know it's closed use something more heavy duty? Thanks for posting in my other thread, this has been very informative!

[skipinminn]

Nows when I'd like to SEE the GM customer Service guy! tell us how a catch can isn't a good idea as a Standard Part?????

[ChadG]

Originally Posted by skipinminn

Nows when I'd like to SEE the GM customer Service guy! tell us how a catch can isn't a good idea as a Standard Part?????

I doubt he'll comment on it being a standard part, but he could certainly weigh in on fears that installing a catch can voiding any part of your warranty. A lot of us go the extra mile to try to do everything we can to prolong the life of our cars, and it's disappointing that many service departments threaten to void warranties for ridiculous reasons such as a catch can. I had a service department here in CA that won't be mentioned tell me that installing a Mobil 1 oil filter would void my powertrain warranty and that I should only use A/C Delco filters . . . . needless to say I found another service department.

[suzook]

[NYJets77]

Originally Posted by skipinminn

Nows when I'd like to SEE the GM customer Service guy! tell us how a catch can isn't a good idea as a Standard Part?????

Probably never see that.

Call me cynical, but NOT including a catch can makes some business sense:

1. Why include something that costs extra, might prolong the life of the car, and cause consumers to put off buying a new car?

2. Why include something that would reduce profit for your dealers (less IM cleanings, etc)?

3. The consumer is willing to accept business practices like these.


BTW - I have my 2nd RX catchcan on my 2nd Camaro, and I use hardly any oil at all. Maybe my dipstick is broken.

[ChadG]

Originally Posted by NYJets77

Probably never see that.

Call me cynical, but NOT including a catch can makes some business sense:

1. Why include something that costs extra, might prolong the life of the car, and cause consumers to put off buying a new car?

2. Why include something that would reduce profit for your dealers (less IM cleanings, etc)?

3. The consumer is willing to accept business practices like these.


BTW - I have my 2nd RX catchcan on my 2nd Camaro, and I use hardly any oil at all. Maybe my dipstick is broken.

I agree, but I'd like to hear someone from GM to comment on a catch can and warranty issues.

[intensifi]

Take a look at post #9:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307431

This is a shot of LFX valves @ 1500 miles with no catch can. The build-up is starting, but not bad yet.

[911medic]

I've been following that thread and saw that too. It's that "collar" of deposits on the valve stem. That sucker is hard to remove!