Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Rick@Livernois
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Marketplace > Sponsors Classifieds Marketplace > V8 Bolt-Ons & Tunes

V8 Bolt-Ons & Tunes Intake, exhaust, tunes, other bolt-ons.

View our official forum sponsors list.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-25-2013, 07:42 AM   #801
suzook
 
Drives: camaro
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Stony Brook,NY
Posts: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam @ Range View Post
It should only be on with the key off when first installed. Otherwise - it will go out when you key off. It's not the light that draws the current. It's the CAN.

I'm going to get Ken (engineer) on here to start answering some of these more techy questions. I'm getting over my head.

Best,
Adam
Would appreciate it! Thanks
__________________
2013 2SS A6 Dusk Edition 1 of 307!
suzook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 11:22 AM   #802
mudchick_alicia
 
mudchick_alicia's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Benton, LA
Posts: 213
"Service Airbag" message pops up with the airbag light lit up.....this happens everytime I start my car right after I plug the Range in. The message goes away if I turn car off and remove key and wait a few minutes then restart. I unplug the Range everytime I park my car in my garage. Just wanted to let the Range guys know of this issue.
__________________
CAI, Borla Atak Axleback, Magnaflow xpipe, Solo's HF Cats, Nitto Invos on EuroTek Mesh Deep Concave 20x10 on all 4's
mudchick_alicia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 12:03 PM   #803
crazyhorse
 
Drives: 2013 2SS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 28
Ken in prior posts some said the V1 (which never gave a battery issue) would not give lights issue if plugged in after the engine was running --- OK so why not just go back to the V1, and make it "wait" 90 seconds after initial startup of the engine to send codes to the computer? Wouldnt that be just like waiting to plug in your V1 until after the engine was running? Wouldnt this fix the lights issue (per prior posts)? And the V1 has the hard off switch so it would not draw on the battery. (I hate AFM and glad you guys optimizing the Range!) Just throwing ideas out there. Sounds like the V3 does not like being plugged in after startup per mudchick... maybe the V1 could just be delayed and fix both issues.
crazyhorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 03:57 PM   #804
mudchick_alicia
 
mudchick_alicia's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Benton, LA
Posts: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
Ken in prior posts some said the V1 (which never gave a battery issue) would not give lights issue if plugged in after the engine was running --- OK so why not just go back to the V1, and make it "wait" 90 seconds after initial startup of the engine to send codes to the computer? Wouldnt that be just like waiting to plug in your V1 until after the engine was running? Wouldnt this fix the lights issue (per prior posts)? And the V1 has the hard off switch so it would not draw on the battery. (I hate AFM and glad you guys optimizing the Range!) Just throwing ideas out there. Sounds like the V3 does not like being plugged in after startup per mudchick... maybe the V1 could just be delayed and fix both issues.
I don't plug the Range in after I start it.....I plug it in before I start it....but I always unplug it when I get home from driving it after I have shut off the car because my car is not my dd.
__________________
CAI, Borla Atak Axleback, Magnaflow xpipe, Solo's HF Cats, Nitto Invos on EuroTek Mesh Deep Concave 20x10 on all 4's
mudchick_alicia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 03:59 PM   #805
SSGUNNER
Chu no guat a hasa is?
 
SSGUNNER's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 2SS/RSL99No Longer Stock
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Some where in So Cal
Posts: 3,928
Installed my obd 2 cable adapter. I now tuck the range right above the obd. Goes right. Very good investment i might add.
__________________
AAC Plasma DRL's,Plug n play harness,Elite CC,Tint: 35% & 5%, LED Dome light, Show-N-Go Plate Holder, Flowmaster AT, C.A.I. Intake, VMAX CNC Spiral Ported TB
SSGUNNER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 06:46 PM   #806
San2cci
 
San2cci's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 L99 2SS (20k miles)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Camden County, NJ
Posts: 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudchick_alicia View Post
"Service Airbag" message pops up with the airbag light lit up.....this happens everytime I start my car right after I plug the Range in. The message goes away if I turn car off and remove key and wait a few minutes then restart. I unplug the Range everytime I park my car in my garage. Just wanted to let the Range guys know of this issue.

This is not good; I would contact Range direct and have them send you a nw unit and then send them back yours. What version do you have?
San2cci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:08 PM   #807
Nutro


 
Nutro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS Synergy Green
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSGUNNER View Post
Installed my obd 2 cable adapter. I now tuck the range right above the obd. Goes right. Very good investment i might add.
Where'd you get the adapter?
__________________
2011 L99 W/ Kooks Long Tubes, Ported TB, Roto-Fab CAI, Apex Catch can, Stainless Works 3" ZL-1 Catback, Overdriven Maggie @10 Pounds boost putting down 501/535 on a conservative tune. Oh and Forgestar 20's
Nutro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:40 PM   #808
SSGUNNER
Chu no guat a hasa is?
 
SSGUNNER's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 2SS/RSL99No Longer Stock
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Some where in So Cal
Posts: 3,928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutro View Post
Where'd you get the adapter?
Got it from ebay.
__________________
AAC Plasma DRL's,Plug n play harness,Elite CC,Tint: 35% & 5%, LED Dome light, Show-N-Go Plate Holder, Flowmaster AT, C.A.I. Intake, VMAX CNC Spiral Ported TB
SSGUNNER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 09:49 PM   #809
SROD
THE ROD MAN
 
SROD's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 ABM 2SS/RS #631
Join Date: May 2010
Location: TENNESSEE
Posts: 535
it is all over in this thread. you can get one from amazon also.
__________________
SROD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 10:09 PM   #810
Jrichards73
 
Jrichards73's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS Victory Red
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 563
My early production 2011 has yet to have the first hiccup with the range. I feel the issue is with GM's constant modification of the calibrations of the PCM. It is going to be hard for an aftermarket manufacturer to calibrate their device for all those inconsistencies. This is also my argument against mail order and handheld tuners. The Range has worked so well for me that I kept it as my only means of defeating AFM even though car required tuning for new gears.
__________________
Jrichards73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 07:40 AM   #811
kenmosher
 
Drives: Buick GN, TBSS, Volvo V50
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 5
Hey guys. The start up issue is sort of a magic timing window with some cars, but the every time with the service air bag is not typical. San2cii, if you're up to it, send me an email with your shipping info and let's swap that module out with a new one. It'll have the latest cal on it and well see if maybe your module just might have an electrical issue or something? Send email to ken @ rangetechnology.com and let's do a little investigation to see what's going on?
kenmosher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 07:50 AM   #812
crazyhorse
 
Drives: 2013 2SS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 28
Ken, airbag was mudchick_alicia see post #802

Do you think a "delay sending code until 90 seconds after startup on a V1" would fix the "magic window" issue you talk about? (thereby fixing lights issue and battery issue?)

What other methods are you looking at (Adam said you guys were working on the battery issue)

Tks for sharing i want to buy one but just curious on the evolution of the product
crazyhorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 09:32 AM   #813
mudchick_alicia
 
mudchick_alicia's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Benton, LA
Posts: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by San2cci View Post
This is not good; I would contact Range direct and have them send you a nw unit and then send them back yours. What version do you have?
Thanks I will do that.....I'm pretty sure I have the newest version 3 since I just ordered it on 6/14/13.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmosher View Post
Hey guys. The start up issue is sort of a magic timing window with some cars, but the every time with the service air bag is not typical. San2cii, if you're up to it, send me an email with your shipping info and let's swap that module out with a new one. It'll have the latest cal on it and well see if maybe your module just might have an electrical issue or something? Send email to ken @ rangetechnology.com and let's do a little investigation to see what's going on?
Ken yes that was me with the service airbag light issue.....I am emailing you now. Thanks
__________________
CAI, Borla Atak Axleback, Magnaflow xpipe, Solo's HF Cats, Nitto Invos on EuroTek Mesh Deep Concave 20x10 on all 4's
mudchick_alicia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:20 PM   #814
kenmosher
 
Drives: Buick GN, TBSS, Volvo V50
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 5
Ill catch up here with you folks shortly... I've got to reregister from my personal account to a business one.
kenmosher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:00 PM   #815
kenmosher
 
Drives: Buick GN, TBSS, Volvo V50
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 5
Well, looks like I need to use this account for a bit before I can use the Range sign on, so ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
Ken, airbag was mudchick_alicia see post #802
Yup, working with her now ... it's almost looking like there may be something internally wrong with her module or the flash wasn't completely successful when it was flashed. We have a programming rig that looks to have gotten flaky (which we've replaced) and I'm suspicious that hers was one of the last ones made on that rig.

Quote:
Do you think a "delay sending code until 90 seconds after startup on a V1" would fix the "magic window" issue you talk about? (thereby fixing lights issue and battery issue?)
It's not a matter of sending stuff ... it's the lower level electrical interface to the bus. Think of it as turning on a light switch ... and there is a small surge when that happens, which obviously the Camaro isn't happy with.

The latest stuff already waits upwards of 20 seconds before doing anything on the bus after it detects key on and it has some pretty neat "under the covers" stuff to only talk on the bus as little as needed. For example, it's not even going to start any V8 goodness until after 9 MPH.

Quote:
What other methods are you looking at (Adam said you guys were working on the battery issue)
The "battery issue" is pretty much coming down to how low can we turn the power down on the board before the wake causes a problem. Normally, the tiny bit we draw (about 1ma in "deep sleep" and about 7ma for about 20ms every 5 seconds when we check the bus). That (again normally) doesn't even touch the normal draw of the body control module, security modules, OnStar, etc.

However, when we did that, it seems it caused the sensitivity and then we'd get the "dash lights" issue if the timing was just right, usually during a restart/cranking after the key has been on for a period of time.

The progression has been to keep turning up the wick just a tad AND moving the timing window out as far as we can to make sure the bus is stable before becoming a "citizen". This has led to power consumption of around 10-14ma in the "light" sleep state (which is still pretty minimal ... ) with the dashlights problem dwindling to almost nothing.

This current iteration (under test right now and Alicia has graciously agreed to be a guinea pig ) is trying to find the balance point along with a couple other "tricks". Bottom line is that the susceptible point has been if you let the power management stuff in the vehicle (when it lets you use OnStar or listen to the radio with the key off or in ACC position) come into play. If you don't do that, then things are good.

So ... I think Alicia's problem may just be a bad module, we'll see when she gets the stuff I sent her, so let's wait on that one. However, the other stuff we're doing is all good stuff in theory and testing will bear it out.

V1-V2 are right now in the field and the plug in after you start and/or don't leave the keys in it are something that's a decent tradeoff with the low power draw.

V3 pretty much fixes the dash lights thing BUT at the price of higher "sleep state" power consumption to avoid ticking off the bus.

We're now "turning the knobs" on the various identified key factors to try and find the perfect balance point ... and it's likely going to be somewhere in the middle.

We're just trying to roll the best of both worlds (power draw vs. lights issue) together. We'll see where the best balance point will be.
kenmosher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:09 PM   #816
kenmosher
 
Drives: Buick GN, TBSS, Volvo V50
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 5
One quick question too ... is there anybody in the Front Range area of Colorado with an SS/Auto that would like to test for a bit?

I'm in Fort Collins, and it would just involve scoping up your car with a bunch of monitors and then making the "bad things" happen so we can definitively log/analyze exactly the symptoms to be sure we can recreate/test them?

The car would sit in my personal shop (probably easier than doing it out in a parking lot) and being an enthusiast myself, treated with utmost respect.

If so, shoot me some email at ken @ range technology.com?
kenmosher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:42 PM   #817
crazyhorse
 
Drives: 2013 2SS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 28
Tks ken! Sounds like just buy one, enjoy it, and if car is going to be parked for a week then take the RANGE out. Do you think the toggle switch on the wire to pin 16 of an OBD2 extension would be the same as "taking it out" or is there current draw from another pin?
crazyhorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:49 PM   #818
kenmosher
 
Drives: Buick GN, TBSS, Volvo V50
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 5
Nope, no draw on other pins ... most of the other pins in the connector are actually datalines (and that's why you see 0-5v at times on them).

A switch would work fine ... and you can put it on pin 16 of an OBD2 extension harness OR on pins 4&5 (which are ground)
kenmosher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 06:09 PM   #819
suzook
 
Drives: camaro
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Stony Brook,NY
Posts: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmosher View Post
Well, looks like I need to use this account for a bit before I can use the Range sign on, so ...



Yup, working with her now ... it's almost looking like there may be something internally wrong with her module or the flash wasn't completely successful when it was flashed. We have a programming rig that looks to have gotten flaky (which we've replaced) and I'm suspicious that hers was one of the last ones made on that rig.



It's not a matter of sending stuff ... it's the lower level electrical interface to the bus. Think of it as turning on a light switch ... and there is a small surge when that happens, which obviously the Camaro isn't happy with.

The latest stuff already waits upwards of 20 seconds before doing anything on the bus after it detects key on and it has some pretty neat "under the covers" stuff to only talk on the bus as little as needed. For example, it's not even going to start any V8 goodness until after 9 MPH.



The "battery issue" is pretty much coming down to how low can we turn the power down on the board before the wake causes a problem. Normally, the tiny bit we draw (about 1ma in "deep sleep" and about 7ma for about 20ms every 5 seconds when we check the bus). That (again normally) doesn't even touch the normal draw of the body control module, security modules, OnStar, etc.

However, when we did that, it seems it caused the sensitivity and then we'd get the "dash lights" issue if the timing was just right, usually during a restart/cranking after the key has been on for a period of time.

The progression has been to keep turning up the wick just a tad AND moving the timing window out as far as we can to make sure the bus is stable before becoming a "citizen". This has led to power consumption of around 10-14ma in the "light" sleep state (which is still pretty minimal ... ) with the dashlights problem dwindling to almost nothing.

This current iteration (under test right now and Alicia has graciously agreed to be a guinea pig ) is trying to find the balance point along with a couple other "tricks". Bottom line is that the susceptible point has been if you let the power management stuff in the vehicle (when it lets you use OnStar or listen to the radio with the key off or in ACC position) come into play. If you don't do that, then things are good.

So ... I think Alicia's problem may just be a bad module, we'll see when she gets the stuff I sent her, so let's wait on that one. However, the other stuff we're doing is all good stuff in theory and testing will bear it out.

V1-V2 are right now in the field and the plug in after you start and/or don't leave the keys in it are something that's a decent tradeoff with the low power draw.

V3 pretty much fixes the dash lights thing BUT at the price of higher "sleep state" power consumption to avoid ticking off the bus.

We're now "turning the knobs" on the various identified key factors to try and find the perfect balance point ... and it's likely going to be somewhere in the middle.

We're just trying to roll the best of both worlds (power draw vs. lights issue) together. We'll see where the best balance point will be.
Just so you know....I have ver3....and can duplicate the lights issue on my 2013 ss. I'm just gonna try and find a 12volt only while engine is running and wiring that to pin 16....can't find a 12v only when engine is running though.
__________________
2013 2SS A6 Dusk Edition 1 of 307!
suzook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 11:52 PM   #820
Ocx
 
Ocx's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Lake St. Louis, MO
Posts: 168
I pulled the trigger on this from Amazon. Anyone know the expected version? The Amazon review is the same review found on this forum...which I just read thru long after buying this earlier.

Not sure what to expect here...
Ocx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 12:02 AM   #821
SSGUNNER
Chu no guat a hasa is?
 
SSGUNNER's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 2SS/RSL99No Longer Stock
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Some where in So Cal
Posts: 3,928
Ur gonna love it.
__________________
AAC Plasma DRL's,Plug n play harness,Elite CC,Tint: 35% & 5%, LED Dome light, Show-N-Go Plate Holder, Flowmaster AT, C.A.I. Intake, VMAX CNC Spiral Ported TB
SSGUNNER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 11:46 AM   #822
mudchick_alicia
 
mudchick_alicia's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Benton, LA
Posts: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocx View Post
I pulled the trigger on this from Amazon. Anyone know the expected version? The Amazon review is the same review found on this forum...which I just read thru long after buying this earlier.

Not sure what to expect here...
You will love it.....regardless of my issue with the airbag lights going off I love it! It does what it is supposed to do which is get rid of that annoying AFM! And as you can see above from kenmosher they have excellent customer service! Haven't received the other modules yet just checked tracking and should have them tomorrow.
__________________
CAI, Borla Atak Axleback, Magnaflow xpipe, Solo's HF Cats, Nitto Invos on EuroTek Mesh Deep Concave 20x10 on all 4's
mudchick_alicia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 03:12 PM   #823
k818mn1
 
Drives: Camaro SS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Crowley, TX
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocx View Post
I pulled the trigger on this from Amazon.
Cancel your amazon order and order it direct from Rangetechnology.com. Use coupon code camaro5 for $15 off, free shipping.

Even without the discount, you will love it!
k818mn1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:22 AM   #824
suzook
 
Drives: camaro
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Stony Brook,NY
Posts: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzook View Post
So i got my stuff.....I cannot find a +12v ONLY during running conditions...Im stuck!
UPDATE>>>> I installed a switch between Pin 16(Power) on my obd ext cable. It only has power when the car is in ACC or running. I now can just flip a switch if I dont want the AFM active. Also NO draw when car is off. I have the cable and range sitting in the cubby where the fuses are. I will update any problems that may arise.
__________________
2013 2SS A6 Dusk Edition 1 of 307!
suzook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:43 AM   #825
crazyhorse
 
Drives: 2013 2SS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 28
Suzook - What did you use for the power source for pin 16 (to eliminate draw when the car is off?)

I understand the switch part, but it looks like you did both a switch AND a different source of power?
crazyhorse is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.