Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Emblempros
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Forced Induction - V8

Forced Induction - V8 V8 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-25-2012, 06:52 PM   #26
SSE 4 2SS
Boosted Moderator
 
SSE 4 2SS's Avatar
 
Drives: LS-3 429 TT with other odds-n-ends
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kyle Tx
Posts: 13,303
Send a message via AIM to SSE 4 2SS Send a message via Yahoo to SSE 4 2SS
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnighter View Post
Because 426 HP isn't enough HP.
^^^^ Exactly... for some... It's too much for some at the same time...
__________________
SSE 4 2SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:25 PM   #27
Birm



 
Birm's Avatar
 
Drives: Florida Speed & Power
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pinellas Park, FL
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS View Post
^^^^ Exactly... for some... It's too much for some at the same time...


I added CAI/Headers thought I was done.....Nope.

Added Cam..thought I was done..... Nope.

Next is Turbo, hopefully?!? ......Doubtful.
Birm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:38 PM   #28
DarkCry956
 
DarkCry956's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Texas RGV
Posts: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birm View Post


I added CAI/Headers thought I was done.....Nope.

Added Cam..thought I was done..... Nope.

Next is Turbo, hopefully?!? ......Doubtful.

YSI going in this year and once again I'm saying I'm Done!
DarkCry956 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:40 PM   #29
GSUNCSU
Watch This!
 
GSUNCSU's Avatar
 
Drives: Super Charged 1SS/RS, M6, CGM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Royse City, TX
Posts: 755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessika@SCC View Post
There is an insane amount of R& D that goes into producing something like a supercharger.
I know that the eaton rotors in the TVS are not cheap... Then factor in the labor hours to machine the pieces & assemble them. I think SLP has it right by offering their new supercharger system at 6750...

The reason the mustang supercharger is cheaper is because it is a front drive. Compare apples to apples and it will work out to be right about the same.
The Knucklehead is right (she knows that's a compliment), I'm a Mfg. Engineer and have been in the Eaton plant that manufactures the rotors, a ton of R&D and specialty equipment (CNC machining centers, programing,etc.), exotic coatings, etc. A very precise piece of equipment, equals expense, I would be willing to bet, that the profit margins of a SC are on par or less than most automotive equipment, of even less complexity.
__________________
K&N CAI, Wet Okole Seat Covers, MagnaFlow Street Perf. Ex. (Axle Back), MPD Hood, Gary's Customz ZL1 Fascia/Vented Fenders/Custom Stripes/Paint, AAC Afterburners/Fog Light Halos/Side Markers/Misc LEDs, Bee-Otch Air Freshener, Hurst Shifter and Line-Loc(APEX), RPI Splash Guards, MagnaCharger (Texas-Speed)(Installed by ME), Rx Catch Can and Breather, Billet Pulleys (SC2150), ARH Headers, LPE Twin Fuel Pump, Custom Blower Cam, Custom Tune TBArwhp, TBArwtorq, Boost Gauge and Single Pod (MTI)
GSUNCSU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:43 PM   #30
Jessika
Account Suspended
 
Drives: Anything Blown
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSUNCSU View Post
The Knucklehead is right (she knows that's a compliment), I'm a Mfg. Engineer and have been in the Eaton plant that manufactures the rotors, a ton of R&D and specialty equipment (CNC machining centers, programing,etc.), exotic coatings, etc. A very precise piece of equipment, equals expense, I would be willing to bet, that the profit margins of a SC are on par or less than most automotive equipment, of even less complexity.
Compliment taken!

And you are correct....

sent from my Note2 using Tapatalk
Jessika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 02:18 AM   #31
mikeSS


 
mikeSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 7,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitroman28 View Post
But if you don't void your warranty on the ZL1 your just another slow car at the track. I have raced 2 Stock ZL1's and beat both. Not impressed for the price.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Wd3lkOUE#gid=0
if you don't void your warranty, you still have a great overall car. ok its not a 1/4 mile king. but really what stock car is? a GTR ?
__________________

2010 camaro cammed- sold
2013 E92 V8 M3 DCT ZCP
C7 Z06 next
mikeSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 02:21 AM   #32
mikeSS


 
mikeSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 7,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS View Post
The value is in the desire of the individual that makes the money and spends it the way they desire, for the end result they desire...We had some clown on here under multiple acct's that was trying to tell me that if I could truly afford my car and what I've spent on it, I would have a Ferrarri or Lambo... but here's the truth... I like the Camaro, always have, always will... It's my car, my money, my desires and no one else s...European rattle box's don't do anything for me... They are for white collar guys that hold their pinkies out and wear silly looking hats and gloves while driving... I'm way to working class for that...

And as for the comment about the ZL1, feel free to go and get one... and I'll run you in the arena my car is designed for... Hennessey proved they can go 203... but it took 1.7 miles to accomplish that... I've been faster and did it in about 3/4's of a mile... blew a head gasket and still coasted through the finish line of the mile at 197...

I've sat in a few ZL1's, and they are amazing cars, no doubt... fast in a multitude of arenas... solid... etc.... I would love to have one for a daily driver and may some day... so I can leave my lowly SS for weekend runs...
again i was only trying to make a point, in some different light . and i completely understand your look on the camaro. good to have some different view points ya know
__________________

2010 camaro cammed- sold
2013 E92 V8 M3 DCT ZCP
C7 Z06 next
mikeSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 12:51 PM   #33
Retro69
 
Retro69's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS M6 Synergy Green
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Morgan, UT
Posts: 587
So I guess it's making a bit more sense to me why they cost what they do.

I do feel like $6000-$8000 for FI can put one just that much closer to a ZL1. (Plus other mods that might come along). Yes, a ZL1 might not be the ultimate in what can be attained with mods to an SS but it does give you a really nice starting point from which to yet modify it for more.

So let me take this in a little different direction...

Ignoring labor costs, how far can one *realistically* go with non-FI modifications, keeping the car with reasonable drivability and reliability for a mostly daily driver? What kind of money are we talking here? How much hp can we gain going in this direction?

It does seem like FI would give the best overall drivability vs an extreme cam narrowing the power band, etc.

Thoughts?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
__________________

2011 2SS M6
Comp Cams cam and trunion upgrade
CAI intake, Rotofab washer bottle
Ceramic coated Dynatech 1 7/8" long tube headers, hi-flow cats
VMAX CNC Ported TB. Pfadt Performance Kit - Stage 2 ZL-Spec
Ideal Garage clutch master cylinder with remote reservoir
Retro69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 01:03 PM   #34
Unreal

 
Drives: 2006 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,914
That question is way to broad. You can do a RHS talldeck 500+ cube motor and make 600+rwhp all motor and drive nice, it will cost you ~$35k or so.

You can spend $6500 on a TT kit, make 500-700rwhp on stock heads/cam/block/etc or you can spend $4000-5000 on headers, intake, tb, cam, heads, etc and not drive like stock and make maybe 500rwhp. If drivability is a concern then FI should be your #1 choice.
__________________
Nick
2006 Corvette Z06 -1047rwhp
Unreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 02:21 PM   #35
East Coast Supercharging
 
East Coast Supercharging's Avatar
 
Drives: 8 second C5 Drag Car, C6 Road racer
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cream Ridge, NJ 609-752-0321
Posts: 778
As a Supercharger manufacturer I can assure you that the margins are not as high as many of you may think.

But building supercharger kits sure beats digging ditches!!
East Coast Supercharging is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 02:34 PM   #36
willhe64

 
willhe64's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 45th Vert, 2011 4x4, 9sec Vega
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,880
As someone who just finished a tvs2300 install and went for their first drive. I can tell you they are worth every penny.
Plastic surgery couldn't take the grin off my face.
And I drive a high 9 second drag car. This is my first foray into FI and there is something crazy about boost. All that power under the peak curve is my guess.
__________________
I feel it only fair to warn you, I have a black belt in CAPS LOCK.
willhe64 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 09:56 AM   #37
jordan 572

 
jordan 572's Avatar
 
Drives: none
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: MN
Posts: 1,720
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeSS View Post
i really never seen the value in going down a supercharger route. after everything is installed and tune. and lets be honest who the hell just puts a s/c in there car?. people do other mods as well. exhaust, maybe a PSI gauge, rims and tires maybe. other supporting mods to help longevity. maybe suspension mods etc..all of that with for the most part loss of a warranty.

I feel like if you were to take that money, put it into a Zl1 the payments really wouldn't be much more, or even more at all. you will be getting a better suspension, s/c engine, better rims/tires and a warranty.
What happens if you want more than 580hp? Or a car that can't just be bought off of any dealership. I really wanted a zl1 when they came out just because they had more power, but I have a decent amount more and a better handling car in an ss. I can see your warranty concern but I don't worry about that because all my labor is free.
jordan 572 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 11:15 AM   #38
Stitch
 
Stitch's Avatar
 
Drives: SS, CTS & SRT-4
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by East Coast Supercharging View Post
As a Supercharger manufacturer I can assure you that the margins are not as high as many of you may think.

But building supercharger kits sure beats digging ditches!!
Have you tried using paper-mache as a building material? Might be able to save some money on the production side...

__________________
Stitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 10:15 PM   #39
SoreHead
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro Convertible -SLP & Cams
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS View Post
..European rattle box's don't do anything for me... .
Rattle boxes?
SoreHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 10:18 PM   #40
fielderLS3


 
fielderLS3's Avatar
 
Drives: 02 Alero, 2011 Mustang 5.0
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Portage, Wisconsin
Posts: 4,237
They are expensive because the people who buy them are willing to pay a lot for them.
__________________
"Proven V-8 power with better efficiency than a turbo V-6"

"The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive."eds.
fielderLS3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 10:20 PM   #41
SoreHead
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro Convertible -SLP & Cams
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5
I imagine part of the difference in price between Camaro and Mustang S/C would have something to do with volume also. My guess is that there are more customers for Stang chargers??
SoreHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:42 PM   #42
sscamaro

 
sscamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Denver,PA
Posts: 1,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessika View Post
There is an insane amount of R& D that goes into producing something like a supercharger.
I know that the eaton rotors in the TVS are not cheap... Then factor in the labor hours to machine the pieces & assemble them. I think SLP has it right by offering their new supercharger system at 6750...

The reason the mustang supercharger is cheaper is because it is a front drive. Compare apples to apples and it will work out to be right about the same.
The Edelbrock and the SLP S/C are front drive S/C. I paid $6200 for my
E-Force S/C. The price is not only the S/C itself. It's all the parts that go with it. Radiator, hoses, water pump, fuel lines, heater hoses, etc.







__________________
2010 2SS/RS Victory Red, MN6, 1-7/8 Kooks LT Headers, SLP Axle Back, Edelbrock E-Force S/C, ZL1 Fuel Pump, 72# Injectors, JRE fuel rail upgrade, Roto-Fab CAI, Elite Catch Can, Billet Hurst Shifter, DSS 1000HP axles, Spohn Trailing Arms, Toe Links, Lower Control Arms. 546/rwhp & 522/rwtq Tune by Jeremy Formato.
sscamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 01:59 PM   #43
Retro69
 
Retro69's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS M6 Synergy Green
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Morgan, UT
Posts: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by sscamaro View Post
The Edelbrock and the SLP S/C are front drive S/C. I paid $6200 for my
E-Force S/C. The price is not only the S/C itself. It's all the parts that go with it. Radiator, hoses, water pump, fuel lines, heater hoses, etc.


Looks like someone is going to have fun this weekend!
__________________

2011 2SS M6
Comp Cams cam and trunion upgrade
CAI intake, Rotofab washer bottle
Ceramic coated Dynatech 1 7/8" long tube headers, hi-flow cats
VMAX CNC Ported TB. Pfadt Performance Kit - Stage 2 ZL-Spec
Ideal Garage clutch master cylinder with remote reservoir
Retro69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:01 PM   #44
sscamaro

 
sscamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Denver,PA
Posts: 1,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro69 View Post
Looks like someone is going to have fun this weekend!
No, it's been on since Sept. 2010. That was 19K miles ago.
__________________
2010 2SS/RS Victory Red, MN6, 1-7/8 Kooks LT Headers, SLP Axle Back, Edelbrock E-Force S/C, ZL1 Fuel Pump, 72# Injectors, JRE fuel rail upgrade, Roto-Fab CAI, Elite Catch Can, Billet Hurst Shifter, DSS 1000HP axles, Spohn Trailing Arms, Toe Links, Lower Control Arms. 546/rwhp & 522/rwtq Tune by Jeremy Formato.
sscamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 06:49 PM   #45
nicave13@gmail.com
LED god
 
nicave13@gmail.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Inferno Orange Camaro SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 461
I would say it's market driven...

My for instance I'm only talking about Centrifugal Blowers. PD have a lot of tech and are pricey, no denying that. Keep in mind below are still retail prices.

However...

Nice older styled oil cooled non-intercooled Paxton kit for Rustang $2500: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAXTON-NOVI-...00e97f&vxp=mtr

Novi 1200 non-intercooled Kit for Rustang 4.6 mod motor $4255:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paxton-NOVI-...893b17&vxp=mtr

Novi 1500 non-intercooled kit for Rustang carbed $4000k:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-351ci-C...34d35f&vxp=mtr

Intercooler with piping and BOV for anything, universal crap $300:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-TU...344ab5&vxp=mtr

Finally for a tuner kit if you could source out mounting brackets and pulley's and using intercooler you would need the head unit, and I've seen some V3's as low as $1300 new:

Vortech V3 $1700:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vortech-V3-S...2629bc&vxp=mtr

Or Procharger P-1SC for $2300:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Procharger-P...57f946&vxp=mtr

I just can't figure how to get the brackets

Blower V3 $1700+intercooler $300+ brackets and pullies ($500 guess)= $2500

I would say demand definitely drives prices.
__________________
nicave13@gmail.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 12:02 AM   #46
SSE 4 2SS
Boosted Moderator
 
SSE 4 2SS's Avatar
 
Drives: LS-3 429 TT with other odds-n-ends
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kyle Tx
Posts: 13,303
Send a message via AIM to SSE 4 2SS Send a message via Yahoo to SSE 4 2SS
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoreHead View Post
Rattle boxes?
Yup... my opinion....

I've ridden in some high end European vehicles, Mercedes, Audi, BMW's, one Lambo, and every one of them had some piece part here or there....

Most of them were body panels or interior pieces that just didn't seem to stay in place... it was a harmonic rattle usually RPM related, but intolerable never the less....

Only one of these was a brand new car but all of them were less than 2 years old....
__________________
SSE 4 2SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 09:03 AM   #47
Unreal

 
Drives: 2006 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicave13@gmail.com View Post
My for instance I'm only talking about Centrifugal Blowers. PD have a lot of tech and are pricey, no denying that. Keep in mind below are still retail prices.

However...

Nice older styled oil cooled non-intercooled Paxton kit for Rustang $2500: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAXTON-NOVI-...00e97f&vxp=mtr

Novi 1200 non-intercooled Kit for Rustang 4.6 mod motor $4255:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paxton-NOVI-...893b17&vxp=mtr

Novi 1500 non-intercooled kit for Rustang carbed $4000k:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-351ci-C...34d35f&vxp=mtr

Intercooler with piping and BOV for anything, universal crap $300:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-TU...344ab5&vxp=mtr

Finally for a tuner kit if you could source out mounting brackets and pulley's and using intercooler you would need the head unit, and I've seen some V3's as low as $1300 new:

Vortech V3 $1700:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vortech-V3-S...2629bc&vxp=mtr

Or Procharger P-1SC for $2300:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Procharger-P...57f946&vxp=mtr

I just can't figure how to get the brackets

Blower V3 $1700+intercooler $300+ brackets and pullies ($500 guess)= $2500

I would say demand definitely drives prices.
+ belt, + idlers, + piping, +clamps, +silicone couplers, + hardware, +fuel system, + air inlet, +Bypass/bov. A blower kit is a lot more than brackets, pulleys. Just the brackets are $600-2000 depending on the bracket. Idlers, tensioners, etc all add up.
__________________
Nick
2006 Corvette Z06 -1047rwhp
Unreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 10:05 AM   #48
E.T.


 
E.T.'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 3,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by willhe64 View Post
As someone who just finished a tvs2300 install and went for their first drive. I can tell you they are worth every penny.
Plastic surgery couldn't take the grin off my face.
And I drive a high 9 second drag car. This is my first foray into FI and there is something crazy about boost. All that power under the peak curve is my guess.


The S/C and install was a pretty penny, but the car is such a blast now. Heck, it was a blast with just bolt-ons, now it's a little scary. Say you spend 8-10K to supercharge your car. You're making as much power as cars that cost 100K+, so relatively speaking, it's pretty cost effective.
__________________

E.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 10:21 AM   #49
willhe64

 
willhe64's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 45th Vert, 2011 4x4, 9sec Vega
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,880
Mine cost under $6k to do. Install was too easy. And now that the roads have better traction it is even funner (less scary though )
__________________
I feel it only fair to warn you, I have a black belt in CAPS LOCK.
willhe64 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 09:24 PM   #50
nicave13@gmail.com
LED god
 
nicave13@gmail.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Inferno Orange Camaro SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 461
I did say tuner kit

I did say tuner kit... Generic intercooler for $300 came with couplings, BOV, etc. Brackets for mounting blower costs $600-2000!!! Thats insane. Pure insanity. Numbers will never add up, as evidenced by cheaper cars kits costing half as much for similiar power gains. Most of the big companys only claim 150hp more or so on our cars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal View Post
+ belt, + idlers, + piping, +clamps, +silicone couplers, + hardware, +fuel system, + air inlet, +Bypass/bov. A blower kit is a lot more than brackets, pulleys. Just the brackets are $600-2000 depending on the bracket. Idlers, tensioners, etc all add up.
__________________
nicave13@gmail.com is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.