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Old 07-02-2013, 11:51 PM   #57
JusticePete
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Originally Posted by Dropspeed View Post
When you say control weight transfer can I assume that translates into increased traction? I have the mind set that when the front rate is increased more than the rear this induces under steer. Does that still hold true or are you increasing the rear as well?

Thanks,
Matt
Matt,

A 5th Gen without understeer wouldn't be a 5th gen

We feel the 5th Gen is under-sprung up front from the factory. As balanced as the 1LE is, when you stand on the brakes the nose dives and the tail lifts. When you accelerate the nose lifts and the rear squats. A 1LE with driver and fuel hits the track at two tons. That is a lot of weight transfer. Too much transfer for any front wheel and tire that will fit in the fender well.

In a race car, we would default to a muscle car like rake with the thought that the car is light enough and balanced enough to benefit from the rake biased weight transfer. That isn't the 5th Gen. We find that increasing the front spring rate, lowering the rear in relation to the front, reduces understeer by controlling weight transfer and not overloading the front tires. There is a limit to the rate increase before it becomes a negative. That is why the 12kg front and rear is working so well for us and 14kg coils do not.



Keep in mind that the front spring rate is the front spring rate in a virtual pivot front strut while there is a motion ratio at work in the rear that reduces rate at the wheel, but you already knew that.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:08 AM   #58
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JusticePete

"The sub-frame bush inserts or replacements eliminate vertical and lateral movement in the IRS sub-frame. The OE engineers have made several changes to these four bushes. the first change was to fill the deep Noise Vibration and Harshness voids on the 10/11 bushes. The ZL1 had further upgrades and so did the 1LE. There is still sufficient movement to create dynamic alignment changes in a range wide enough for the driver to experience rear end steer a.k.a. loose rear end."

Humm lest just say there a road down in Mexico with a left hand turn I go through at 100 MPH in my old mustang and when I trying doing the same thing with the 1LE the back of the car feels loose . The mustang was flat ass planted it also had a torsion Diff with a 4:1 TBR ratios . Looks like I all ready ran into this bushing problem .

I think I take this over to the chassis part of the forum read your threads and look into seeing what involved in replacing the bushing thank you for your time .
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:35 PM   #59
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I have been considering a change to our lowering coil spring rates, but haven't pulled the trigger. There should be an OE upgrade around the corner with Z/28 coils.
Hi Pete,

Sorry took a little Hiatus from the site.....

In the post above you mentioned a possibility of increase the spring rates of the Pedders lowering springs. Is this something that will come to fruition soon or is there an extended period of time before this may happen?

Thanks,
Matt
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:01 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Matt,

A 5th Gen without understeer wouldn't be a 5th gen

We feel the 5th Gen is under-sprung up front from the factory. As balanced as the 1LE is, when you stand on the brakes the nose dives and the tail lifts. When you accelerate the nose lifts and the rear squats. A 1LE with driver and fuel hits the track at two tons. That is a lot of weight transfer. Too much transfer for any front wheel and tire that will fit in the fender well.

In a race car, we would default to a muscle car like rake with the thought that the car is light enough and balanced enough to benefit from the rake biased weight transfer. That isn't the 5th Gen. We find that increasing the front spring rate, lowering the rear in relation to the front, reduces understeer by controlling weight transfer and not overloading the front tires. There is a limit to the rate increase before it becomes a negative. That is why the 12kg front and rear is working so well for us and 14kg coils do not.



Keep in mind that the front spring rate is the front spring rate in a virtual pivot front strut while there is a motion ratio at work in the rear that reduces rate at the wheel, but you already knew that.
So do you offer a 12kg linear spring that lower .5 f and .75 I. Rear? I would be all over it!

I don't want to go too low and scrape my splitter everywhere. These Hawaii roads suck. But I would like to close the gap and gain a little extra spring rate. Planning to hit some auto cross events.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:08 PM   #61
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Hi Pete,

Sorry took a little Hiatus from the site.....

In the post above you mentioned a possibility of increase the spring rates of the Pedders lowering springs. Is this something that will come to fruition soon or is there an extended period of time before this may happen?

Thanks,
Matt
There are ride quality issues when you go lower and make a large jump in rate. The OE dampers on the V6 and SS cannot control the higher rate. The 1LE dampers struggle as well with a 12kg coil. It doubles the rear rate and is 4 times higher than the front, in round numbers.

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So do you offer a 12kg linear spring that lower .5 f and .75 I. Rear? I would be all over it!

I don't want to go too low and scrape my splitter everywhere. These Hawaii roads suck. But I would like to close the gap and gain a little extra spring rate. Planning to hit some auto cross events.
That is why we designed Supercars
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:17 PM   #62
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Maybe this is too direct for the forum and if so we can talk off line

From this dicussion will I be happy with an off the shelf Pedders lowering spring combination and will it perform the way I want it too on the track? (Knowing I don't want coilovers yet) If so would which rear springs would you recommend based on my "wants"?

Thanks,
Matt
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:22 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Dropspeed View Post
Maybe this is too direct for the forum and if so we can talk off line

From this dicussion will I be happy with an off the shelf Pedders lowering spring combination and will it perform the way I want it too on the track? (Knowing I don't want coilovers yet) If so would which rear springs would you recommend based on my "wants"?

Thanks,
Matt
Matt,

If you did full sub and radius bushes with our 32mm rear bar I think you would be far happier than with a set of lowering coils. If you want to try something we could run a session with just the Pedders rears 220033 to see what you think.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:29 PM   #64
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Matt,

If you did full sub and radius bushes with our 32mm rear bar I think you would be far happier than with a set of lowering coils.
......I know, I know.....I just really want to see what springs will do for me.

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If you want to try something we could run a session with just the Pedders rears 220033 to see what you think.
Yes, I would like to try this route as that is what I was thinking might work.....

Thank you,
Matt
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Old 09-29-2015, 04:04 PM   #65
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I want to bring this thread back up because I, like Dropspeed at the time, want to increase my spring rate but not upset the ballance I currently have in the car. The car is running stock suspension with the addition of a 32mm rear sway. It does good, its fairly neutral set up but I push the car hard enought where I get a lot of weight moving to the front under braking and I need it to stay flatter though the corners. I know the best situation would be coilovers or Z28 but I don't have the $$ to go that direction at the moment.
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