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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 07-02-2013, 01:24 PM   #26
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Warranty

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I think many people are automatically assuming this will be a strip car like the ZL1, owners might be in for some repair bills. The Zl1 has a factory warranty covering the track and strip I am wondering if they come out and say that the Z/28 is not warranted for strip use.
We all are familiar with warranties . Everything has its limits , once the warranty is over , pop goes the Weezle!!! I'm sure if anyone decides to drag race the z/28 they would be wise enough to strengthen its driveline and axles.besides I don't think a warranty is an issue to a dragger. Me ,"I buy Cadillacs to cruise and modify muscle cars to race".
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:35 PM   #27
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We all are familiar with warranties . Everything has its limits , once the warranty is over , pop goes the Weezle!!! I'm sure if anyone decides to drag race the z/28 they would be wise enough to strengthen its driveline and axles.besides I don't think a warranty is an issue to a dragger. Me ,"I buy Cadillacs to cruise and modify muscle cars to race".
I think the muscle car mindset is changed with the ZL1! Even the Caddy's are in the mix with the CTS-V, mind you not a purist muscle car, but it has the power! Also, if you strengthen the rearend, how would that affect its track capabilities? I mean you can water ski behind a cruise ship.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:30 PM   #28
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My wife owns a 2011 cts , luxury horsepower just doesn't sctatch my itch!! Be more specific As far as what track capabilities ? I was only addressing to ur message you posted.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:02 PM   #29
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My wife owns a 2011 cts , luxury horsepower just doesn't sctatch my itch!! Be more specific As far as what track capabilities ? I was only addressing to ur message you posted.
What I meant is they designed the rearend of the Z/28 for track use. If you change that to be beefier for the strip it might effect its performance on the track. I am not an expert, but I would think if the engineers could have made it for both wouldn't they or does it come down to the COPO is for the strip, the Z/28 is for the track and the ZL1 does everything.
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Old 07-03-2013, 03:07 PM   #30
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What I meant is they designed the rearend of the Z/28 for track use. If you change that to be beefier for the strip it might effect its performance on the track. I am not an expert, but I would think if the engineers could have made it for both wouldn't they or does it come down to the COPO is for the strip, the Z/28 is for the track and the ZL1 does everything.
Your homework is to learn and report back on different types of differentials and how, exactly, each is better or worse for a given application. It's not a hard assignment, in fact, if you put forth even a modicum of effort, you can earn the adulation and respect of your peers.

Bonus points for discussing the effect of weight (reduction) as it pertains to road course cars, drag race cars and street cars.

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Old 07-03-2013, 03:28 PM   #31
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Your homework is to learn and report back on different types of differentials and how, exactly, each is better or worse for a given application. It's not a hard assignment, in fact, if you put forth even a modicum of effort, you can earn the adulation and respect of your peers.

Bonus points for discussing the effect of weight (reduction) as it pertains to road course cars, drag race cars and street cars.

The dog ate it!
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:17 PM   #32
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Iíve seen in magazines the HP that the new Z28 will put down at the fly, but I havenít seen any actual RWHP numbers. Does anyone know where it will be in that aspect, and how much lighter is the Z28 vs. the 2010 SS.
Its very difficult to get RWHP for a car that has never seen a dyno outside of a GM R&D centre. It gets even more difficult to guess when we don't know what the final flywheel power is going to be. All that is official is that the LS7 will provide at least 500 hp.

But personally, I wouldn't be too worried about what a stock Z/28 makes at the wheel. Namely because its just a number that depends on a whole host of factors beyond the car itself. What type of dyno is it, what are the conditions its being run in, when was the dyno last calibrated, is the operator conservative or generous, and so on. So it is entirely possible that one Z/28 could do a few pulls on a dyno and get a reading of 410 rwhp and the owner would think they've got a slug for a car. But if they went down the street to a different shop the same car could hit 450 rwhp & sunofabitch ... their car is under-rated!



As for weight, the target was 100 lbs less than the SS and from what I recall, they have surpassed that goal without too much trouble. So it will probably end up right around 3700 lbs when its done.
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:51 AM   #33
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As for weight, the target was 100 lbs less than the SS and from what I recall, they have surpassed that goal without too much trouble. So it will probably end up right around 3700 lbs when its done.
That's my guess as well, right around 3,700.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:42 PM   #34
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A lot depends on if the LS7s are already made. Are they building fresh brand new engines in BG or are they using up units already made at Wixom? If new then there may be room for tweaks. If pre built then you are counting on intake and exhaust for better breathing. I think 520 will be tops. So rear wheel not much more than the good ol Z06
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:48 PM   #35
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A lot depends on if the LS7s are already made. Are they building fresh brand new engines in BG or are they using up units already made at Wixom? If new then there may be room for tweaks. If pre built then you are counting on intake and exhaust for better breathing. I think 520 will be tops. So rear wheel not much more than the good ol Z06
Do you know what the Z06 had for RWHP? Thanks.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:44 PM   #36
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Mass, and unsprung weight, reductions were paramount, without breaking the Bank. 1LE rear axle assembly (minus brakes etc.) is about 40# less than ZL1...which is about 20# less than the CTS-V.

Typical untouched C6 Z06s range from about 420 to 440 rwhp (different dynos on different days). The "targeted 450" is assuming a good "tune" from the fine folks @ GM...
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:59 PM   #37
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Old 07-04-2013, 05:23 PM   #38
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Lost on driveshaft

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yeah 18% DT loss seems high. Mine was less than 12% loss. 426hp and my baseline was 378WHP.

I'm betting 445+WHP
Typically it is only a 12-15%, gross h.p. vs. RWHP.
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:30 PM   #39
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Typically it is only a 12-15%, gross h.p. vs. RWHP.
There is no real percentage of drivetrain loss as it's a static figure from stock to whatever horsepower.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:07 PM   #40
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There is no real percentage of drivetrain loss as it's a static figure from stock to whatever horsepower.
Its not a simple percentage, but that is a much more accurate rule of thumb than a static figure is.

You are probably thinking of the power that it takes to accelerate a wheel or drive shaft, and its true that these things take only a fixed amount of power to be accelerated (until you swap them out for something different of course). But the instant that they are up to speed, they no longer rob anything of any power (and they also 'release' power as you try and decelerate). This does not hold true for the gears in the transmission & differential, or the half-shafts going out to the wheels, or the bearings or tire flex any of the other sources of friction. Those losses can be approximated as a percentage of input power, though in reality its a somewhat complex curve that depends on a number of factors. Point being, if you run your car stock on a chassis dyno and calculate that it lost 55 hp ... don't assume that after you've supercharged it its still only losing 55 hp.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:14 AM   #41
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this will be a 11 second car with the right driver, 11 consistent with a auto swap.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:17 AM   #42
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With an auto swap you might just as well peel the Z/28 badges off while you're at it.


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Old 07-05-2013, 09:05 AM   #43
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With an auto swap you might just as well peel the Z/28 badges off while you're at it.


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If a strip teaser is what you seek, start with an SS, and if an automatic is your pleasure, start with an SS. A crate LS7, or a fortified LS3/L99 (de-AFM'd), combined with a ZL1 carrier and axles or a 9" swap, will have you buck$ in-pocket and probably a happier camper...
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:28 AM   #44
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It has a CAI and Tri-Y headers with high flow cats and better exhaust so I think it will make an easy 450 rwhp.
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Old 07-05-2013, 10:32 AM   #45
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There is no real percentage of drivetrain loss as it's a static figure from stock to whatever horsepower.
It isn't a static figure; it's a composite percentage that's the result of the various resistances that are in between the engine and the wheels. The factors are: flywheel (design and weight), clutch (design, style and weight), transmission (design and efficiency), driveshaft (style, weight, efficiency), differential (design, style, efficiency), wheels (weight). And in all those closed assemblies there's the efficiency of the oil inside and how well it reduces friction and deals with heat. The inefficiencies themselves aren't even static; they change (usually getting worse) as speed, torque and heat increase.

There's also the quality of the various parts and components as to how well they're made, how true to spec, and how well-balanced they are. A part that works fine at 4000 rpm may not work as well at 7000 rpm; it may start to distort and lose efficiency thereby increasing power loss.

All these factors add up to a composite loss of power expressed as a percentage. The initial percentage is not static either. It's based on the stock configuration of the vehicle. Start changing things and it can go up or down. Start adding power without changing anything else, and the loss percentage is likely to increase due to everything being pushed above its designed operating level.

If you leave the engine alone but start improving the efficiency of the drivetrain by reducing rotating weight, reducing friction with upgraded oils, upgrading components to higher spec, etc. you will see an increase in rwhp without adding 1 hp to the engine. In reality you haven't gained hp, you've gained efficiency which is allowing more hp to get through to the wheels. You have reduced drivetrain loss.

12-15% loss is a rough average based on the stock configuration but it gives you a starting point as to what to use to calculate performance efficiency.
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:26 PM   #46
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this will be a 11 second car with the right driver, 11 consistent with a auto swap.
What RWHP are you basing that on?

A Stock Z06 with 335 rear tires and 450 to 500 pounds less mass to launch is a high 11 second car.

I don't think a ZL1 with an automatic even comes close to being an 11 second car and the Z/28 will only be 300 pounds lighter than that car. Isn't a Stock ZL1 running about 12?

You must be hoping for some big HP improvements in the LS7. The very slight mass reduction sure isn't going to shave a second off.
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:47 PM   #47
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Part of the confusion comes from the erroneous interpretation of the word "track". Some use the word to indicate "strip", and others use it to indicate "road course". GM's use, in this particular case, is solely to mean "road course".

Adding DRs and implementing redline launches with the 1LE carrier/axles, with almost 500 lb-ft in OE tune, will mean non-warrantable harm...
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:55 PM   #48
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What RWHP are you basing that on?

A Stock Z06 with 335 rear tires and 450 to 500 pounds less mass to launch is a high 11 second car.

I don't think a ZL1 with an automatic even comes close to being an 11 second car and the Z/28 will only be 300 pounds lighter than that car. Isn't a Stock ZL1 running about 12?

You must be hoping for some big HP improvements in the LS7. The very slight mass reduction sure isn't going to shave a second off.
My stock ZL1 (Rotofab CIA) has a best 11.84 1/4 time.
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:11 PM   #49
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very interesting
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:59 PM   #50
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My stock ZL1 (Rotofab CIA) has a best 11.84 1/4 time.
A pretty solid performance and probably driver aided from practice and experience. Just not sure how a Z/28 beats you and your car by another .8 seconds with 300 pounds being the only advantage.

If you want a drag car that is what the COPO was built for. The Z/28 was built for the less straight track.
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