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Old 04-24-2014, 12:14 AM   #443
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Single cam pushrods FTW! If it was built dual overhead cams I would stick with the old school!

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The Coyote is a much better engine from a technical perspective for performance, but it is limited by cubic inches. If there was an LS7 sized coyote, that would be one bad engine. The LS engine is a great engine for durability, but nobody on the planet Earth uses push rods in engines other than GM, and for good reason: Over head Cams are much more sophisticated and efficient for performance. An LS would not have a prayer against a coyote if the LS was limited to 5.0 cubes. The LS only competes because it uses more cubes to make up for its obsolete push rod design. Push rods are obsolete much like the flat head design was obsolete by over head valves. I don't understand why GM insists on using push rod engines. Of course, I also don't understand why GM insists on using fiberglass on Corvettes. No car company on Earth other than GM uses fiberglass--its used on cheap replica cars and bass boats. By the way, I am not a Ford guy. I have always been a GM guy but I do like the old Fords and Mopars too. Just keeping it real and honest. By the way, I am looking into buying a Camaro 1LE.
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Old 04-24-2014, 12:25 AM   #444
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Maybe GM realizes that real camaro guys want to run lopy cams and still have some heritage in the new stuff. There is no lack of performance of these motors and gm had done a great job of keeping these engines performing top notch compared to all these so called better disignes.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:26 AM   #445
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Maybe GM realizes that real camaro guys want to run lopy cams and still have some heritage in the new stuff. There is no lack of performance of these motors and gm had done a great job of keeping these engines performing top notch compared to all these so called better disignes.
I'm with you. Better engine should not cost 30% more, get the same fuel economy with 1.2L of displacement less, and be physically bigger. DOHC just adds complexity and the ability for people in other parts of the world to pay less road tax based on displacement. If anyone asked me if I wanted the S65 v8 in my Mustang or Nova, I'd say "No thank you." I like having 400 lb. ft. of torque and not having to rev the hell out of my engine to go Ricky Bobby all over the place.
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Old 04-24-2014, 09:07 AM   #446
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The LS series engines IMO are one of the best v8 motors produced on the market. GM successfully combined a traditional engine design with modern induction, engine management and with good fuel economy. The LS series dominated the domestic v8 scene beginning with its start in '97, and it allowed enthusiasts to once again enjoy all the good things about having a capable performing car and truck. GM should be encouraged to continually develop and improve the engine design so that more people will experience how well these engines perform.
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Old 03-06-2015, 12:22 PM   #447
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631 hp and 468tq N/A 8k redline engine = real winner.
i dont mind resurrecting this thread since its one of the best topics on here. anyways where did you get that 631hp number for the benz C63 motor? i looked it up cause a friend might be getting one and the N/A c63 puts out like 455hp stock. 631hp looks like the number for maybe their twin turbo v8?....i didnt look particulary hard maybe theres another c63 motor i didnt find
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Old 03-07-2015, 12:43 AM   #448
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Originally Posted by TexasChile View Post
The Coyote is a much better engine from a technical perspective for performance, but it is limited by cubic inches. If there was an LS7 sized coyote, that would be one bad engine. The LS engine is a great engine for durability, but nobody on the planet Earth uses push rods in engines other than GM, and for good reason: Over head Cams are much more sophisticated and efficient for performance. An LS would not have a prayer against a coyote if the LS was limited to 5.0 cubes. The LS only competes because it uses more cubes to make up for its obsolete push rod design. Push rods are obsolete much like the flat head design was obsolete by over head valves. I don't understand why GM insists on using push rod engines. Of course, I also don't understand why GM insists on using fiberglass on Corvettes. No car company on Earth other than GM uses fiberglass--its used on cheap replica cars and bass boats. By the way, I am not a Ford guy. I have always been a GM guy but I do like the old Fords and Mopars too. Just keeping it real and honest. By the way, I am looking into buying a Camaro 1LE.
Have you ever read up on what folks do with 4.8 & 5.3s ? Ever heard of a Northstar? Or the 4.2 TBlzr i-6, you "not" ferd guys kill me..
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Old 03-07-2015, 01:02 AM   #449
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So you don't think CNCing the heads is radical?

I am not exaggerating the size. Have you seen a picture of an LS swapped in to a Mustang? There is plenty of room around the engine.

The 5.8 also uses deposited iron linings in the cylinder bores instead of pressed in liners because they couldn't use them. The bore diameter is the largest they could get in that block. The Ford Modular uses a bore spacing of 3.973" (if I remember right off the top of my head), while the LS uses a 4.40" bore spacing.
l love this old thread!
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Old 03-07-2015, 01:52 AM   #450
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l love this old thread!
nice pic....
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:57 AM   #451
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That pic can't be real. If it is, a interesting note is that LS series engine does look tiny compared to what was in there. Someone had more money than sense if it is real.
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Old 03-08-2015, 06:41 AM   #452
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I read an article where they dyno'd a 1970 LS6 Chevelle auto trans and it put something like 250 HP to the wheels. No way it was making 450 net HP.
Very true. I used to a 1970 LS6. Had it on a chassis dyno at a car show. Never came close to 280hp.
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Old 03-08-2015, 10:06 AM   #453
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Very true. I used to a 1970 LS6. Had it on a chassis dyno at a car show. Never came close to 280hp.
There was recently a Hot Rod article where they recreated many of the famous old motors from the 60's and 70's. Then dynoed them head to head. It was interesting. Most of the motors were either spot on or under rated. I'll see if I can find it.

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Old 03-08-2015, 02:37 PM   #454
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I get annoyed by people that compare pushrod vs OHC motors on displacement. It truly lacks an understanding of reality. The entire argument for a pushrod design is because they are so compact and light you can have big displacement in a small package. You cannot do that with an OHC motor because they are so big and heavy. That is the problem with the OHC design.

The 5.0 Coyote is a BIGGER MOTOR than the 6.2 LS3. Its dimensions are greater and it weighs more. Therefore, the Coyote puts out less horsepower/lb. Until they find a way to significantly lighten OHC motors and shrink their dimensions, I would not want one because they are far more expensive to fix and modify, and give you a much more difficult engine bay to work on. The LS3 is vastly superior because you can modify and service these vehicles far more easily with a greater HP/lb generation.
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Old 03-08-2015, 03:11 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
I get annoyed by people that compare pushrod vs OHC motors on displacement. It truly lacks an understanding of reality. The entire argument for a pushrod design is because they are so compact and light you can have big displacement in a small package. You cannot do that with an OHC motor because they are so big and heavy. That is the problem with the OHC design.

The 5.0 Coyote is a BIGGER MOTOR than the 6.2 LS3. Its dimensions are greater and it weighs more. Therefore, the Coyote puts out less horsepower/lb. Until they find a way to significantly lighten OHC motors and shrink their dimensions, I would not want one because they are far more expensive to fix and modify, and give you a much more difficult engine bay to work on. The LS3 is vastly superior because you can modify and service these vehicles far more easily with a greater HP/lb generation.
What about the oil starvation issues we LS guys have on track that other manufacturers don't have until really extreme levels of tracking their cars. Even BMW guys that do LS engine swaps are shocked that the LS blocks are blowing on track more so than their less powered motors. Ford 5.0s also don't have this much of an issue. We need dry sumps setups or oil baffle pans more than others with our motors.
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Old 03-08-2015, 03:20 PM   #456
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What about the oil starvation issues we LS guys have on track that other manufacturers don't have until really extreme levels of tracking their cars. Even BMW guys that do LS engine swaps are shocked that the LS blocks are blowing on track more so than their less powered motors. Ford 5.0s also don't have this much of an issue. We need dry sumps setups or oil baffle pans more than others with our motors.
When you have a 4000 lbs car with 500+ HP (modified) pulling well over a G for a long banked turn shit happens.

The Mustang with it's Coyote is too busy doing barrel rolls and testing out its roll bar... lol j/k

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Old 03-08-2015, 06:12 PM   #457
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When you have a 4000 lbs car with 500+ HP (modified) pulling well over a G for a long banked turn shit happens.

The Mustang with it's Coyote is too busy doing barrel rolls and testing out its roll bar... lol j/k

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Old 03-11-2015, 07:30 PM   #458
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When you have a 4000 lbs car with 500+ HP (modified) pulling well over a G for a long banked turn shit happens.

The Mustang with it's Coyote is too busy doing barrel rolls and testing out its roll bar... lol j/k

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What does the weight of a car have to do with the equation?

On that note my 2014 Mustang GT handles much better than my 2012 Camaro SS did.
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Old 03-13-2015, 10:40 AM   #459
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I love GM, I've had 9 different GM performance vehicles since 1998, besides GM trucks, have a 2010 Chevy Silverado crew cab currently, and only 1 Ford (03 Mach1), with that said, I was looking to replace my offroad puppy with something performance, and 3 weeks ago I started looking in the Camaro's, even posted around here too, doing my research, to choose between the L99 engine or the LS3, test drove both of them: 2012 Camaro SS M6, and 2012 Camaro SS A6, and right before starting the paperwork at the dealer, I spotted what I'm driving today, a 2012 Mustang GT M6, soon after the test drive, I was hooked and madly in love with the damn car, it has the Brembo package with the 3.73's, honestly, and again, I'm GM guy at heart, the Stang has it over the Camaro, stock for stock in the performance department, no doubts about it.

Little did I know about the Coyote engine when I picked the car up from this dealer, again I'm a GM guy, I couldn't care less about the Coyote before , but the engine technology is by far a lot more advanced than an LS3 in this case, we could say it shares some technological advances with the L99 with the VVT, but the TiVCT is bound leaps ahead of the time compared to the LS3, being able to advance/retard the intake cams, completely independent from the Exhaust cams, is by far, the biggest benefit among everything else that has been discussed already in this thread, yes the LS3's have more cubes, with heads and cam, it would be a monster, but the 5.0 is a monster stock considering the lack of CI's stock vs stock, not factoring their price range, and whatever mods you want to thrown into the mix, overall, I love the LS3, and if the dealer had priced the Camaro SS Manual a little bit better, perhaps I could have given the Camaro a chance, the price was right on the stang, and its raw capabilities in stock trim won me over this time, in 3 years, i'll see what else is there to choose, I change my vehicles every 3-4 years more or less, so for now, i'll enjoy what I have, you can't go wrong with either platform, in the end, we're all gearheads, and we don't keep things in stock trim for very long

Have fun.
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