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Old 07-07-2013, 01:41 AM   #26
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This thing about one brand gaining market share over another , is a great thing for everyone ( consumers ) , this will keep the 3 bros going at each other to do better than the other
And us , the consumer only gain with that , otherwise the number one would have to do nothing , and just push cars out of the plants

The more changes on the leading brand sales the better
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:41 AM   #27
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Right now Dodge has several promotions going on the 2013 models. You can walk in and see up to 5k off the sticker with little effort. I'm betting that the price point is now competitive and their sales are now turning good numbers.

Challengers are also getting more retro options in 2014. If you like the old shaker hood, you'll be able to get that in 2014 along with some of the old school decal themes. The only shame is that with such a beautiful car, Dodge has yet to provide it with a drivetrain and suspension that competes with us and the blue oval boys. I actually saw a Challenger RT get smoked by a V6 Mustang. Ouch.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:27 AM   #28
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Something tells me that people are reading into this way more then there is to read....
The $$$$ are in the charts.
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:28 PM   #29
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The $$$$ are in the charts.
Not saying that we may see the start of a new trend or anything, however if you look at the chart around this time of the year it is normal for the Mustang to out sell the Camaro.

Really the big change in trends has been with the Dodge moving further and further up market.

We still do not know how many Camaros were produced, and we never look at the incentives offered on any of the three cars.
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:38 PM   #30
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In my area I can get $3,000 off a Dodge Challenger, $1,500 off on a Mustang, and $1,500 off on the Camaro (based on their website and a zip code in the South Bay Southern California).
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:42 PM   #31
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with the 15 mustang getting closer, you'd think the mustang sales would be lackluster. such a huge change for next year (supposedly) across the board for the mustang and they are kicking the camaros ass. Camaro prices are higher but you get more for your money (i know this firsthand) maybe the camaro needs to be dumbed down further to grab the lower end ? maybe when the 15 mustang comes out their price will be in line with the camaro?
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:51 PM   #32
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with the 15 mustang getting closer, you'd think the mustang sales would be lackluster. such a huge change for next year (supposedly) across the board for the mustang and they are kicking the camaros ass. Camaro prices are higher but you get more for your money (i know this firsthand) maybe the camaro needs to be dumbed down further to grab the lower end ? maybe when the 15 mustang comes out their price will be in line with the camaro?
Like I have said before, this is WAY too early to make any of the judgements that you have made in this post. What is wrong with waiting for more information before we make a call on exactly what is going on....
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:27 PM   #33
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with the 15 mustang getting closer, you'd think the mustang sales would be lackluster. such a huge change for next year (supposedly) across the board for the mustang and they are kicking the camaros ass. Camaro prices are higher but you get more for your money (i know this firsthand) maybe the camaro needs to be dumbed down further to grab the lower end ? maybe when the 15 mustang comes out their price will be in line with the camaro?
How do you get more for your money? HID and LED taillights are standard on all mustangs. Not $1350 extra. The mustang also tends to price out cheaper, have bigger incentives, and a bigger margin between invoice and MSRP so you can always get it for less. The interior is also of higher quality although the interior layout on the camaro is much better. Both the mustang and Challenger have track apps of which the camaro has no equivalent.

The only thing that made me buy the camaro is I have always been a camaro fan and love the styling. The Tremec in the camaro is of much higher quality than the Chinese made MT82 in the stang and I wanted a manual. The camaro comes with brembos all around. Finally, I am a big fan of the LS3 engine.

However, the fact that the camaro was more expensive and how tightly integrated Onstar spyware is into the car I thought long and hard about getting a mustang instead.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:22 PM   #34
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Something tells me that people are reading into this way more then there is to read....
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:25 PM   #35
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How do you get more for your money? HID and LED taillights are standard on all mustangs. Not $1350 extra. The mustang also tends to price out cheaper, have bigger incentives, and a bigger margin between invoice and MSRP so you can always get it for less. The interior is also of higher quality although the interior layout on the camaro is much better. Both the mustang and Challenger have track apps of which the camaro has no equivalent.

The only thing that made me buy the camaro is I have always been a camaro fan and love the styling. The Tremec in the camaro is of much higher quality than the Chinese made MT82 in the stang and I wanted a manual. The camaro comes with brembos all around. Finally, I am a big fan of the LS3 engine.

However, the fact that the camaro was more expensive and how tightly integrated Onstar spyware is into the car I thought long and hard about getting a mustang instead.
When incentives are in play it is hard to make a fair value judgement for two cars. You can probably still get a Mustang with as much as $5,000 on the hood of the car at some dealers. Though the reality about incentive is this, you do not offer them unless you need them and the Mustang has needed them (as has the Challenger). The Camaro has sold with mostly no incentives and $1,000-$1,500 in incentives at the max.

Where this comes to hurt the buyer in the long run is with resale value, if someone happened to have purchased a Mustang at full MSRP they get hosed. Sure the Camaro may be a bit more expensive however it pays for itself when you go to sell the car over the Mustang. The 5th generation Camaro has maintained its resale really well, $19,000 is still about the cheapest I can get a used 5th generation Camaro in my area and that is a V-6 engine. $27,000 roughly gets me a used SS Camaro.... from 2010.. and this is a car entering in its 5th model year and yet has held its value really well.

The value proposition, I remember when the Camaro first came out in 2010 and you had a clear value proposition for the Camaro. Sure the base Mustang was about $1,000 cheaper (without incentives) however it lacked much of the features that the base Camaro had. Ford has increased standard features for the Mustang sense then while not increasing the price by that much.

Looking at some of the stats (not including incentives) there is a $1,250 price difference between the two cars and the Camaro does seem to offer a bit more for the money.

However if I were to be making the choice of which of the three cars is better taking incentives into account then clearly the Challenger is the better car. It is hard to argue against a R/T Challenger that is priced at $26,000.......
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:27 PM   #36
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My guess is the increase in Challenger sales is due to its near demise.
Nice try... sort of like the 300, they were going to drop that..in 2010... how many times can you post that

Last edited by Beehave; 07-07-2013 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:16 PM   #37
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I haven't really followed the Challenger, so I do not know what changes they made to the car over the years. I know that the incentives have gone down a great deal to now just $3,000 which makes its sales performance that much more impressive. I guess they really got the packaging down right with the car as far as content and pricing goes for the most part. Above base trim it does look like a pretty cool car though....
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:17 PM   #38
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Love how anytime the Mustang outpaces a Camaro there's a bandwagon of posters with excuses. Why not be happy that this segment survives?
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:51 PM   #39
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Love how anytime the Mustang outpaces a Camaro there's a bandwagon of posters with excuses. Why not be happy that this segment survives?
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:57 PM   #40
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Love how anytime the Mustang outpaces a Camaro there's a bandwagon of posters with excuses. Why not be happy that this segment survives?
I read the entire thread and was thinking the same thing. Mustang and Camaro sales are pretty much a wash to me anyway. The Challenger is the impressive one lately. It has been climbing pretty steady.

Last edited by motorhead; 07-07-2013 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:28 PM   #41
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coming off a 13 mustang. You get more for your money in several ways. Lets do a 13 gt vs 13 1SS comparison.

standard on camaro that mustang does not have:
4 wheel brembos
Mylink
Independant rear
20" wheels
An interior that is leaps and bounds less rattley and clunky than a mustang.
a transmission that shifts when you need it to shift.
5 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranty


That is where you get more for your money.

I came from a bitchen 13 gt with recaros and track package. $36k sticker. car was badass !!! that transmission, never a solid day without some kind of issue. 10,000 miles and i sold it. couldn't put up with that. had a 10 camaro before. once you hop into a mustang after a camaro, you realize the dash is from the 90's and the whole interior is a cost saving plastic dungeon. door panels from hell, b pillar rattles, rear seat side panels rattle. minimal clips holding that stuff in place.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:59 PM   #42
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Love how anytime the Mustang outpaces a Camaro there's a bandwagon of posters with excuses. Why not be happy that this segment survives?
I think it is funny because it is the opposite since I have been coming to this site, whenever the Mustang sells more then the Camaro for a month (or two) the Ford fanbois come out talking about how this is the end for the Camaro. .............

Now even some of the Camaro owners run out and say such things, it is as if they lack the ability for critical thinking.

Enter you all coy, I remember you were one of those Mustang owners who also jumped on that bandwagon. Go on about how the Mustang was superior and everyone who owns a Camaro has one so now the Mustang will take its rightful place back on top. Every single time you did boom the dumping month ends and the Mustang goes right back to second place.

My whole point is we need to stop looking at 1-2 months and making such huge and wild speculations about what is going to happen. You have people saying it is because the 2014 Camaro is ugly (which is just dumb), someone actually said it is because the 2015 Mustang is coming....
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:08 PM   #43
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You mistook my 2015 mustang comment.

I would think the mustang numbers would be down, not up. With how much hype there is for the 15's.

Seems very uptight in this thread.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:31 PM   #44
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Makes sense. The Camaro is losing some steam. The Challenger is probly grabbing a few Camaro sales and the Mustang is getting better and better. It's a good car with excellent weight and some great packages. I think the new Mustang will be a huge success.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:59 PM   #45
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If the Challenger continues at the rate that it's going, it will catch up to Camaro sales at some point early next year if you go by the Trending chart.
It's a good car for people who buy for looks. The power to weight ratio is the worst in it's class...it's so bad there's probably a dozen other current stock production cars that could beat it off the line. A 475hp model costs $44k(from the Dodge website). That's robbery in this generation.

I think a black Chally with red stripes down the sides looks completely awesome...but if I owned one I'd pray nobody challenged me to a race unless I stripped it to the bone and threw about $10k worth of performance mods into it.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:53 PM   #46
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You mistook my 2015 mustang comment.

I would think the mustang numbers would be down, not up. With how much hype there is for the 15's.

Seems very uptight in this thread.
If you could read, you would have noticed that Mustang numbers are down and not up........
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:54 PM   #47
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It's a good car for people who buy for looks. The power to weight ratio is the worst in it's class...it's so bad there's probably a dozen other current stock production cars that could beat it off the line. A 475hp model costs $44k(from the Dodge website). That's robbery in this generation.

I think a black Chally with red stripes down the sides looks completely awesome...but if I owned one I'd pray nobody challenged me to a race unless I stripped it to the bone and threw about $10k worth of performance mods into it.
The SRT-8 Challenger is under rated and $44,000 for 470BHP isn't that bad of a deal, it is a good deal cheaper then a GT500 or a ZL1 Camaro.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:15 AM   #48
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If you could read, you would have noticed that Mustang numbers are down and not up........
Mustang numbers kicked the Camaro's ass. Perhaps you should re-read what I had posted in both replies.

I guess owning a 2004 grand prix leaves only the sales threads for you to troll...
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:52 AM   #49
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Mustang numbers kicked the Camaro's ass. Perhaps you should re-read what I had posted in both replies.

I guess owning a 2004 grand prix leaves only the sales threads for you to troll...
"I would think the mustang numbers would be down, not up. With how much hype there is for the 15's"

That is a complete thought..... Mustang numbers were down not up as you stated, which was wrong....

For those who can read, the Mustang out sold the Camaro last month that is clearly stated.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:48 AM   #50
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You missed "both" replies. As this is like a conversation, there is no need to repeat myself at each reply. Stick to this section of the site, it's where you belong.
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