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Old 07-10-2013, 10:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
If you beat on the car in 90+ degree temperatures, like drag race it, road race it, or autocross it, the stock intercooler system will have a hard time keeping intake temps down. It still has a lot of power but will not give you all 580 as the timing is retarded as mentioned above. I had the same motor in a CTS-V that I used as a daily driver and never noticed any power loss on public roads. The overall cooling configuration is better on the ZL1 than the CTS-V. I have never experienced any problems in the Camaro on public roads but do not have that many miles.

The intercooler system can be modified to improve this some, there really is no reservoir in the stock set-up and installing more fluid will help some. Putting in a bigger intercooler will help also.

I kind of think that many of the people complaining about the "serious heat soak issues" are changing pulleys and overdriving the supercharger without a compensation in the cooling department. Well, duh, think about it.

It is so easy to get astronomically crazy amounts of power out of this motor, but it works better if you balance everything and don't take big shortcuts. Now after having said that, unless you are putting it in a race environment like I mentioned above, most of the wide open throttle applications on this thing are going to be so short you will never have an issue. Even the Texas mile pretty much happens in around 30 seconds....
Well that's reassuring. Most of the driving will be street, but I do plan to autox and track (not 1/4) it. I was more concerned with it's potential when being driven on roads / daily driving.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:19 PM   #19
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I agree with Matt from FSP, it was my car he drove. The heat and humidity in West Fl is brutal right now. Best I have done with my new ZL1 is a 12.5 with most runs in the 12.7s. I also traded in a modded 2010 SS that ran 12.3s. But, that being said I certainly dont regret the swap. On the street my ZL1 is much smoother and faster than my old car. Pretty soon I will be getting Matt to tune my car and add a few go faster goodies, IE meth, headers, and pullys. Need to get into the 11s!
LOL.. I could have written this exact post.

I'm not going w/ a chiller, but want to find the best heat exchanger out there coupled w/ meth.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:27 AM   #20
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LOL.. I could have written this exact post.

I'm not going w/ a chiller, but want to find the best heat exchanger out there coupled w/ meth.
Agreed. From my experience I want to stay away from the chiller. So I'll let you guinea pig the exchanger / meth set up, and follow your lead.

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Old 07-12-2013, 10:55 AM   #21
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What's the fill interval for the meth reservoir on average?
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:30 PM   #22
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Agreed. From my experience I want to stay away from the chiller.
Super Chiller may not be the answer for everyone but you cant base your decision on your previous experience, I think you know why. Look at any of my threads, pictures and reviews from my customers. The AI Super Chiller is non invasive to car, completely reversible, holds Freon and best of all it works!
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:32 AM   #23
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The car doesn't have heatsoak if its moving. The proof is in the pudding. Look at the Laguna seca laps from motortrend where the ZL1 "never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second". You can also look at Nuremburgring times. The reason the ZL1 can beat cars that have more power and handling is because it can keep cool and run hard while other cars fade. Anybody who tells you different is trying to sell you something

Drag racing is a slightly different story. EVERY car gets heat soak if its not moving, just some get hot faster. Stagnant air is an insulator. You can upgrade your intercooler, or do the ice soak thing the 11 seconds guys do. Upgrading the intercooler only buys you some more time before it soaks though.

Upgrading, of coarse (pully, tune, etc), then you'll want to upgrade to compensate for the increased air flow and heat.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:20 AM   #24
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There are still advantages of IAT running 20deg or more below ambient. Just look how much better your car runs in cold weather. Also seeing your IAT drop when you are sitting at a traffic light. Heat Soak is not the only condition we address. Better gas mileage, that crisp throttle response associated with low IAT. I have run the first Super Chiller on my GTO since 09 and would never go back. If you use AC this is a passive win win mod. I think everyone with a AI Super Chiller would agree they would never go back.
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:21 PM   #25
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I agree. the question was about heat soak though.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:01 AM   #26
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install a better heatexchanger and the LPE fluid reservoir when you tune your car, should be a day and night difference as far as inlet temps. While you're at it you can do a thermostat mod, this small $25 mod will lower the water temps, which in turn will lower engine oil temps (since water cools the oil), and your blower will be much happier sitting on an engine that's 20 degrees cooler.
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Old 08-11-2013, 11:23 AM   #27
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Anyone try using a super coolant? There are many brands out there, I've used it in my truck before as well, they do work.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:07 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
If you beat on the car in 90+ degree temperatures, like drag race it, road race it, or autocross it, the stock intercooler system will have a hard time keeping intake temps down. It still has a lot of power but will not give you all 580 as the timing is retarded as mentioned above. I had the same motor in a CTS-V that I used as a daily driver and never noticed any power loss on public roads. The overall cooling configuration is better on the ZL1 than the CTS-V. I have never experienced any problems in the Camaro on public roads but do not have that many miles.

The intercooler system can be modified to improve this some, there really is no reservoir in the stock set-up and installing more fluid will help some. Putting in a bigger intercooler will help also.

I kind of think that many of the people complaining about the "serious heat soak issues" are changing pulleys and overdriving the supercharger without a compensation in the cooling department. Well, duh, think about it.

It is so easy to get astronomically crazy amounts of power out of this motor, but it works better if you balance everything and don't take big shortcuts. Now after having said that, unless you are putting it in a race environment like I mentioned above, most of the wide open throttle applications on this thing are going to be so short you will never have an issue. Even the Texas mile pretty much happens in around 30 seconds....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vroom View Post
The car doesn't have heatsoak if its moving. The proof is in the pudding. Look at the Laguna seca laps from motortrend where the ZL1 "never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second". You can also look at Nuremburgring times. The reason the ZL1 can beat cars that have more power and handling is because it can keep cool and run hard while other cars fade. Anybody who tells you different is trying to sell you something

Drag racing is a slightly different story. EVERY car gets heat soak if its not moving, just some get hot faster. Stagnant air is an insulator. You can upgrade your intercooler, or do the ice soak thing the 11 seconds guys do. Upgrading the intercooler only buys you some more time before it soaks though.

Upgrading, of coarse (pully, tune, etc), then you'll want to upgrade to compensate for the increased air flow and heat.
I'm re-reading this thread after some conversations I had at the fest on heat soak and intercoolers. Seems both of you guys I've quoted are right in line with what was discussed. Intercooler may not be needed as much as I originally thought. The reservoir under the SC is where the heat is and in a 1/4 mile run IATs will rise a certain amount no mater what HX you have. Also, it blocks other coolers making oil temps etc run hotter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayousef View Post
install a better heatexchanger and the LPE fluid reservoir when you tune your car, should be a day and night difference as far as inlet temps. While you're at it you can do a thermostat mod, this small $25 mod will lower the water temps, which in turn will lower engine oil temps (since water cools the oil), and your blower will be much happier sitting on an engine that's 20 degrees cooler.
I'm thinking about just doing a reservoir and leave the HX out. Just get some another .5 gal of volume flowing.

Any thoughts?
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:21 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
I'm re-reading this thread after some conversations I had at the fest on heat soak and intercoolers. Seems both of you guys I've quoted are right in line with what was discussed. Intercooler may not be needed as much as I originally thought. The reservoir under the SC is where the heat is and in a 1/4 mile run IATs will rise a certain amount no mater what HX you have. Also, it blocks other coolers making oil temps etc run hotter.

I'm thinking about just doing a reservoir and leave the HX out. Just get some another .5 gal of volume flowing.

Any thoughts?
The reservoir is always a good idea, best of all it gives you a fill cap. Also if you do power upgrades in the future the reservoir is never outdated. They are a bit expensive but consider its a limited production item. We offer a 2 piece reservoir upgrade for the CTS V that is very popular with or without the Super Chiller.
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Old 08-11-2013, 02:08 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
I'm re-reading this thread after some conversations I had at the fest on heat soak and intercoolers. Seems both of you guys I've quoted are right in line with what was discussed. Intercooler may not be needed as much as I originally thought. The reservoir under the SC is where the heat is and in a 1/4 mile run IATs will rise a certain amount no mater what HX you have. Also, it blocks other coolers making oil temps etc run hotter.

I'm thinking about just doing a reservoir and leave the HX out. Just get some another .5 gal of volume flowing.

Any thoughts?
Mike,

I just spent the last few hours reading as many posts about heat exchangers and reservoirs as I could. Just doing some planning for this winter.
KDi posted some rather interesting data about IAT2 temps using only their heat exchanger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KD Innovations View Post
It's 95 degrees here today so I decided it would be a good day to get some additional data on the New Era intake and KDi HX too see how they are performing in the heat.

Driving around at 10 mph and up, IAT1's registered 95 degrees. That means with that intake designed to be directly in the airflow, IAT1 temps were the same as ambient! It's doesn't get any better.
Idling at stop lights they picked up 10 degrees as expected and as soon as the car start moving, they dropped immediately back to ambient.

IAT2's were ambient +5 in the same conditions. The intercooler seeing 5 degrees over ambient with a 9.1/2.5 pulley combo on a 95 degrees day is more than excellent. The HX is doing a fantastic job. Idling at lights the IAT2's did not increase at all. They stayed steady at 5 degrees over ambient.

I did a 1/4 mile pull and IAT2's increased 27 degrees. I let off at 135 mph and IAT2's dropped right back down within a few seconds.

I am very impressed with how the car can be idled at a light on a 95 degree day to get some heat soak into it and perform like this. It really shows the cooling performance of these to mods. This ZL1 has a cam, headers, upper and lower pulley, ported blower and ported heads so it is making a lot of power and staying far cooler than stock!

- Keith
There were also some other posts where Keith said that ECT temps were unaffected by his hx.

That said, depending on what air intake I end up running I might do as you're thinking and just run a reservoir with the stock hx and see what happens. I datalog the shit out my cars, so I'll have some good data to look back on to see whether or not the reservoir by itself is working well enough. But I'm not expecting it to.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:42 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by white 2SS/RS View Post
Mike,

I just spent the last few hours reading as many posts about heat exchangers and reservoirs as I could. Just doing some planning for this winter.
KDi posted some rather interesting data about IAT2 temps using only their heat exchanger.



There were also some other posts where Keith said that ECT temps were unaffected by his hx.

That said, depending on what air intake I end up running I might do as you're thinking and just run a reservoir with the stock hx and see what happens. I datalog the shit out my cars, so I'll have some good data to look back on to see whether or not the reservoir by itself is working well enough. But I'm not expecting it to.
Thanks for the info, I know I'll be doing an ADM CAI, and still looking around for a reservoir. Sort of leaning toward the D3 reservoir, but will definitely need to do some logging and see how it goes.

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Old 08-12-2013, 05:49 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by TrekGTO View Post
The reservoir is always a good idea, best of all it gives you a fill cap. Also if you do power upgrades in the future the reservoir is never outdated. They are a bit expensive but consider its a limited production item. We offer a 2 piece reservoir upgrade for the CTS V that is very popular with or without the Super Chiller.
Do you have a reservoir for the ZL1?
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Old 08-12-2013, 02:12 PM   #33
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I know some of you guys have been reading this thread that started on a Heat soak topic and I have about 3 more hours of road course track time and fifteen 1/4 mile passes on my car since the last post. All of these were performed in ambient temps between 95 and 106. I have the LPE reservoir and a Ron Davis heat exchanger in my grill. In the quarter mile I had no issues with timing retard or fluid boiling but it is over in 12 seconds and by the time I coast up the return road and stage again the fluids in the car are cooled to levels that don't affect timing.

First for road course driving, my girlfriend never boiled the intercooler fluid in a complete 30 minute session and she was going fast enough to pass 2 spec miatas and a stock boxster. On the other hand, I was unable to sustain more than about 10 minutes of maximum driving without retarded timing due to excess intake air temps. Eventually enough supercharger coolant boils over that the pump dries up and then all engine temps skyrocket in about another 2 minutes. I did this about 5 times with no apparent damage to the pump, LPE reservoir is bubbled and neck of filler cap is no longer round. Probably no longer holds the 4 or 5 lbs of pressure it was designed to take. It works for drag racing but not for road racing in 100+ degree Texas heat.

I wish the chiller would be an easy fix but I don't think it will work and here is why. In the afternoon when the temp got up to 106 I left the car idling and cooled the inside of the car with the A/C on max and then entered the track with the windows up and A/C on max in the car. After about 2 laps it got so hot in the car I had to open the windows because the A/C only comes on when I'm braking, I'm almost always above 85% throttle and that kicks off the A/C. And secondly, heat is heat, it has to go somewhere and any heat removed by the A/C system ends up in the condenser right in front of the radiator so basically if you take heat out of the intake coolant you put some of it back into the radiator. For now that would be okay, but what if the engine water starts to boil like it did in my CTS-V?

My current plan is swapping in the LS9 blower with the adapter Lingenfelter just completed and shipped (it has a larger heat exchanger under the blower). ADM is replacing the LPE reservoir with a trunk mounted unit surrounding the battery, aprox 3 gallon capacity. Maybe a larger pressure cap on the system. Andy talked to the engineers at Lingenfelter and they told him that they know of nobody trying to push so much horsepower for such an extended period of time in such extreme heat as I'm doing so I'm kind of the test mule.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:56 PM   #34
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Thanks for the info, I know I'll be doing an ADM CAI, and still looking around for a reservoir. Sort of leaning toward the D3 reservoir, but will definitely need to do some logging and see how it goes.

Attachment 544768
I'll let you test this stuff out, hurry up please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
I know some of you guys have been reading this thread that started on a Heat soak topic and I have about 3 more hours of road course track time and fifteen 1/4 mile passes on my car since the last post. All of these were performed in ambient temps between 95 and 106. I have the LPE reservoir and a Ron Davis heat exchanger in my grill. In the quarter mile I had no issues with timing retard or fluid boiling but it is over in 12 seconds and by the time I coast up the return road and stage again the fluids in the car are cooled to levels that don't affect timing.

First for road course driving, my girlfriend never boiled the intercooler fluid in a complete 30 minute session and she was going fast enough to pass 2 spec miatas and a stock boxster. On the other hand, I was unable to sustain more than about 10 minutes of maximum driving without retarded timing due to excess intake air temps. Eventually enough supercharger coolant boils over that the pump dries up and then all engine temps skyrocket in about another 2 minutes. I did this about 5 times with no apparent damage to the pump, LPE reservoir is bubbled and neck of filler cap is no longer round. Probably no longer holds the 4 or 5 lbs of pressure it was designed to take. It works for drag racing but not for road racing in 100+ degree Texas heat.

I wish the chiller would be an easy fix but I don't think it will work and here is why. In the afternoon when the temp got up to 106 I left the car idling and cooled the inside of the car with the A/C on max and then entered the track with the windows up and A/C on max in the car. After about 2 laps it got so hot in the car I had to open the windows because the A/C only comes on when I'm braking, I'm almost always above 85% throttle and that kicks off the A/C. And secondly, heat is heat, it has to go somewhere and any heat removed by the A/C system ends up in the condenser right in front of the radiator so basically if you take heat out of the intake coolant you put some of it back into the radiator. For now that would be okay, but what if the engine water starts to boil like it did in my CTS-V?

My current plan is swapping in the LS9 blower with the adapter Lingenfelter just completed and shipped (it has a larger heat exchanger under the blower). ADM is replacing the LPE reservoir with a trunk mounted unit surrounding the battery, aprox 3 gallon capacity. Maybe a larger pressure cap on the system. Andy talked to the engineers at Lingenfelter and they told him that they know of nobody trying to push so much horsepower for such an extended period of time in such extreme heat as I'm doing so I'm kind of the test mule.
I'm very interested to see your results. I don't really plan to do too much drag racing in my Z, the 1/4 just doesn't do it for me anymore. Road racing/courses/etc is way more fun and like you mentioned you have much longer sustained speed so I would like to see what you come up with.
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