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Old 07-10-2013, 07:33 AM   #1
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ZL1 OEM Heat Soak & Heat Exchangers

I just traded in my 2010 Camaro for a new 2013 ZL1. Prior to now I did not spend much time in the ZL1 section. I've read that the ZL1 has serious heat soak issues with its OEM setup. I've been told that it needs better cooling and I've also been told that a tune can really wakes things up with the ZL1. I'm hoping people with a wealth of knowledge can comment on this.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:52 AM   #2
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Heatsoak is more of a crutch for people than a concern for a daily driven ZL1. And a tune wakes up any modern vehicle as even scaling back the nannies put in place to save wear & tear makes it feel different. All in all I'd be more worried about the oil that's getting sucked into the intake and caking on the rotors of the S/C than heatsoak. Again this is what I would be more worried about with a daily driven ZL1.

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Old 07-10-2013, 08:21 AM   #3
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The car still has plenty of power even when it's hot, but if you stay in boost for very long the OEM heat exchanger can't keep up. The temps can be significantly reduced without voiding your warranty by adding an aftermarket dual pass exchanger and a coolant reservoir, or by adding a chiller. I wouldn't let heat soak discourage you from the car. It doesn't have any cooling issues.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:23 AM   #4
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As with any forced induction, especially top mount SC styles, there will be additional heat going into the motor. Now add the rising ambient temperatures, so you are already taking in hot air to compress it to make it even hotter (Think about a blow dryer). A few weeks ago a friend of ours had me take his stock automatic ZL1 down track and do some logging on it. The DA was +2300 ft., so it was a pretty hot and humid night. I was seeing off the line, IAT2 temperatures (Intake Air Temperature 2 - meaning the IAT in the blower) of 140*+ on launch, and trailing up to the 170* range top track. This was making the car pull back on timing 5*+. Now, you cannot just go and delete all of these IAT safeties because of possible detonation. The higher the octane gas, the less prone to detonation (i.e. I can run C16 race gas full timing at 250*+ IAT without worry, but I would never think of running 93 pump anywhere close to that IAT).

So yes, a tune would be able to tone down this "heatsoak" adjustment that the computer is doing, but even on the really hot days or if you are tracking the car, you may still pull IAT timing out to save the motor.

Now not saying that this is for everyone out there, but this is why I recommend methanol a lot on any style forced induction, not to increase base timing, but to keep the timing in the motor with the cooler air charge.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:26 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro View Post
I just traded in my 2010 Camaro for a new 2013 ZL1. Prior to now I did not spend much time in the ZL1 section. I've read that the ZL1 has serious heat soak issues with its OEM setup. I've been told that it needs better cooling and I've also been told that a tune can really wakes things up with the ZL1. I'm hoping people with a wealth of knowledge can comment on this.
The heat soak issue is more of a problem for drag racing in the summer. Hot lapping with little airflow the car will build heat. Adding a coolant res will help by increasing fluid volume. I DD mine and in FL summer 100 degree weather while stuck in heavy traffic the car is fine. Of course cool weather it makes more power but unless you want to run a chiller a 30 to 40 degree ambient air temp will make the car have less HP. Just the reality of summer.

One thing to remember is this car was tested a ton by GM on the track.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:29 PM   #6
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I agree with Matt from FSP, it was my car he drove. The heat and humidity in West Fl is brutal right now. Best I have done with my new ZL1 is a 12.5 with most runs in the 12.7s. I also traded in a modded 2010 SS that ran 12.3s. But, that being said I certainly dont regret the swap. On the street my ZL1 is much smoother and faster than my old car. Pretty soon I will be getting Matt to tune my car and add a few go faster goodies, IE meth, headers, and pullys. Need to get into the 11s!
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:50 PM   #7
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Well at the moment I am driving this daily down here in Houston. So the heat (95-100) plus the really high humidity will suck the life out of this car if it is prone to heat soak problems.

Has anyone tried water injection for the sole purpose of keeping IAT temps down? Since I'm stock I'm not looking to get the added benefit of higher octane with meth. I'm just looking to control IAT temps, Houston weather is brutal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvenicess View Post
I agree with Matt from FSP, it was my car he drove. The heat and humidity in West Fl is brutal right now. Best I have done with my new ZL1 is a 12.5 with most runs in the 12.7s. I also traded in a modded 2010 SS that ran 12.3s. But, that being said I certainly dont regret the swap. On the street my ZL1 is much smoother and faster than my old car. Pretty soon I will be getting Matt to tune my car and add a few go faster goodies, IE meth, headers, and pullys. Need to get into the 11s!
Yeah I've been talking to Matt and he's giving me a hard time about having a stock ZL1

But I am reluctant to mod, based on the luck I had with my last 5th gen.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt @ FSP View Post
As with any forced induction, especially top mount SC styles, there will be additional heat going into the motor. Now add the rising ambient temperatures, so you are already taking in hot air to compress it to make it even hotter (Think about a blow dryer). A few weeks ago a friend of ours had me take his stock automatic ZL1 down track and do some logging on it. The DA was +2300 ft., so it was a pretty hot and humid night. I was seeing off the line, IAT2 temperatures (Intake Air Temperature 2 - meaning the IAT in the blower) of 140*+ on launch, and trailing up to the 170* range top track. This was making the car pull back on timing 5*+. Now, you cannot just go and delete all of these IAT safeties because of possible detonation. The higher the octane gas, the less prone to detonation (i.e. I can run C16 race gas full timing at 250*+ IAT without worry, but I would never think of running 93 pump anywhere close to that IAT).

So yes, a tune would be able to tone down this "heatsoak" adjustment that the computer is doing, but even on the really hot days or if you are tracking the car, you may still pull IAT timing out to save the motor.

Now not saying that this is for everyone out there, but this is why I recommend methanol a lot on any style forced induction, not to increase base timing, but to keep the timing in the motor with the cooler air charge.
Now where's my call?
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:25 PM   #9
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I run the Meth system and a new dual fan heat exchanger, few other mods and make 705rwhp 694trq at the wheels with a auto... This car is amazing..
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:39 PM   #10
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I run the Meth system and a new dual fan heat exchanger, few other mods and make 705rwhp 694trq at the wheels with a auto... This car is amazing..
Are you 100% Meth? Or Water/Meth?
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:54 PM   #11
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Yes, 100%
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro View Post
I've read that the ZL1 has serious heat soak issues with its OEM setup. I've been told that it needs better cooling and I've also been told that a tune can really wakes things up with the ZL1. I'm hoping people with a wealth of knowledge can comment on this.
If you beat on the car in 90+ degree temperatures, like drag race it, road race it, or autocross it, the stock intercooler system will have a hard time keeping intake temps down. It still has a lot of power but will not give you all 580 as the timing is retarded as mentioned above. I had the same motor in a CTS-V that I used as a daily driver and never noticed any power loss on public roads. The overall cooling configuration is better on the ZL1 than the CTS-V. I have never experienced any problems in the Camaro on public roads but do not have that many miles.

The intercooler system can be modified to improve this some, there really is no reservoir in the stock set-up and installing more fluid will help some. Putting in a bigger intercooler will help also.

I kind of think that many of the people complaining about the "serious heat soak issues" are changing pulleys and overdriving the supercharger without a compensation in the cooling department. Well, duh, think about it.

It is so easy to get astronomically crazy amounts of power out of this motor, but it works better if you balance everything and don't take big shortcuts. Now after having said that, unless you are putting it in a race environment like I mentioned above, most of the wide open throttle applications on this thing are going to be so short you will never have an issue. Even the Texas mile pretty much happens in around 30 seconds....
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:19 PM   #13
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So does any of the dual pass hardware from a Cobalt heat exchanger work on the LSA?
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:22 PM   #14
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Yes, 100%
Good stuff - this is the route I'm going - I'd read about potential problems with coating of rotors being damaged with meth, but I think that's more of an issue with the water/meth
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:24 PM   #15
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Now where's my call?

Haha.. Where's the last 47 minutes of my life

Good talking to you bud, that car is going to be a beast.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:27 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mrvenicess View Post
I agree with Matt from FSP, it was my car he drove. The heat and humidity in West Fl is brutal right now. Best I have done with my new ZL1 is a 12.5 with most runs in the 12.7s. I also traded in a modded 2010 SS that ran 12.3s. But, that being said I certainly dont regret the swap. On the street my ZL1 is much smoother and faster than my old car. Pretty soon I will be getting Matt to tune my car and add a few go faster goodies, IE meth, headers, and pullys. Need to get into the 11s!
Hahaha... We'll get you there bud. I'd like to slap my set of drag rims on Modern's car and see what it does when we are done. That will give you great insight as to where we will be with yours in the dead heat.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt @ FSP View Post
Haha.. Where's the last 47 minutes of my life

Good talking to you bud, that car is going to be a beast.
Thanks for the call and all the sound advice and knowledge! It's going to be AWESOME!!

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Hahaha... We'll get you there bud. I'd like to slap my set of drag rims on Modern's car and see what it does when we are done. That will give you great insight as to where we will be with yours in the dead heat.
We can do that for sure!!

As long as I can use the timeslip for the MFCC fast list haha!
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
If you beat on the car in 90+ degree temperatures, like drag race it, road race it, or autocross it, the stock intercooler system will have a hard time keeping intake temps down. It still has a lot of power but will not give you all 580 as the timing is retarded as mentioned above. I had the same motor in a CTS-V that I used as a daily driver and never noticed any power loss on public roads. The overall cooling configuration is better on the ZL1 than the CTS-V. I have never experienced any problems in the Camaro on public roads but do not have that many miles.

The intercooler system can be modified to improve this some, there really is no reservoir in the stock set-up and installing more fluid will help some. Putting in a bigger intercooler will help also.

I kind of think that many of the people complaining about the "serious heat soak issues" are changing pulleys and overdriving the supercharger without a compensation in the cooling department. Well, duh, think about it.

It is so easy to get astronomically crazy amounts of power out of this motor, but it works better if you balance everything and don't take big shortcuts. Now after having said that, unless you are putting it in a race environment like I mentioned above, most of the wide open throttle applications on this thing are going to be so short you will never have an issue. Even the Texas mile pretty much happens in around 30 seconds....
Well that's reassuring. Most of the driving will be street, but I do plan to autox and track (not 1/4) it. I was more concerned with it's potential when being driven on roads / daily driving.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:19 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by mrvenicess View Post
I agree with Matt from FSP, it was my car he drove. The heat and humidity in West Fl is brutal right now. Best I have done with my new ZL1 is a 12.5 with most runs in the 12.7s. I also traded in a modded 2010 SS that ran 12.3s. But, that being said I certainly dont regret the swap. On the street my ZL1 is much smoother and faster than my old car. Pretty soon I will be getting Matt to tune my car and add a few go faster goodies, IE meth, headers, and pullys. Need to get into the 11s!
LOL.. I could have written this exact post.

I'm not going w/ a chiller, but want to find the best heat exchanger out there coupled w/ meth.
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:27 AM   #20
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LOL.. I could have written this exact post.

I'm not going w/ a chiller, but want to find the best heat exchanger out there coupled w/ meth.
Agreed. From my experience I want to stay away from the chiller. So I'll let you guinea pig the exchanger / meth set up, and follow your lead.

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S III using telekinesis.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:55 AM   #21
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What's the fill interval for the meth reservoir on average?
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:30 PM   #22
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Agreed. From my experience I want to stay away from the chiller.
Super Chiller may not be the answer for everyone but you cant base your decision on your previous experience, I think you know why. Look at any of my threads, pictures and reviews from my customers. The AI Super Chiller is non invasive to car, completely reversible, holds Freon and best of all it works!
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:32 AM   #23
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The car doesn't have heatsoak if its moving. The proof is in the pudding. Look at the Laguna seca laps from motortrend where the ZL1 "never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second". You can also look at Nuremburgring times. The reason the ZL1 can beat cars that have more power and handling is because it can keep cool and run hard while other cars fade. Anybody who tells you different is trying to sell you something

Drag racing is a slightly different story. EVERY car gets heat soak if its not moving, just some get hot faster. Stagnant air is an insulator. You can upgrade your intercooler, or do the ice soak thing the 11 seconds guys do. Upgrading the intercooler only buys you some more time before it soaks though.

Upgrading, of coarse (pully, tune, etc), then you'll want to upgrade to compensate for the increased air flow and heat.
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:20 AM   #24
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There are still advantages of IAT running 20deg or more below ambient. Just look how much better your car runs in cold weather. Also seeing your IAT drop when you are sitting at a traffic light. Heat Soak is not the only condition we address. Better gas mileage, that crisp throttle response associated with low IAT. I have run the first Super Chiller on my GTO since 09 and would never go back. If you use AC this is a passive win win mod. I think everyone with a AI Super Chiller would agree they would never go back.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:21 PM   #25
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I agree. the question was about heat soak though.
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